TURKEY - George Smith, 26, missing from cruise ship, July 2005

[jannuncutt]

If the wife was on deck sleeping, why would they wake her to ask if she knew where her husband was? Why were they checking on his whereabouts?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If the wife was on deck sleeping, why would they wake her to ask if she knew where her husband was? Why were they checking on his whereabouts?

There are conflicting reports but what I've heard most recently is that people went in to clean the couple's room, and noticed blood on the bed, (I don't know if they found any anywhere else in the room). At that point, they alerted other staff on board, and the staff set out to find the couple on the ship. So they came across the wife "passed out" on a deck chair, woke her, and asked her if she knew where her husband was.

 

[PaperDoll]

I'm interested in this case as well and I come here to get my info. I don't watch the news, unless I have no choice...

I'm wondering about this x-boyfriend being on board, if this is indeed true. Maybe he had something to do with this. But why would he be on this cruise?

I'm having a hard time believing that the new wife would want her husband dead, so I'm going to think she is innocent at this point.

 

[KatherineQ]

Here's a brand-new story from this morning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/01/earlyshow/main712989.shtml

 

[Misty-Waves]

Here's a brand-new story from this morning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/01/earlyshow/main712989.shtml

~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for the update.
I remember Clete's very clear impression of what he heard in the adjoining room. His details were what one would expect from a police officer. (I just wish he's been more curious or concerned.)
Having never been on a ship, I'm not clear how the rooms are set up,but he did say that in the morning he looked around the partition that divided the balconies, as he more or less expected to see balcony furnishings missing. (the thump.) All looked in order to him.
I'm amazed that a passenger wouldn't place a complaint, with the amount of noise he described, and being woken up in the wee hours of the morning. I bet he wishes he had now.
(he also apparently had the ability to look around the balcony partition.)
Misty

 

[mysteriew]

Here's a brand-new story from this morning.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/01/earlyshow/main712989.shtml

Turkish authorities say Hagel told them she and her husband had been in the casino, drinking and gambling, and she doesn't remember what happened when they got back to their room. Yet, Hyman says he heard arguments, perhaps furniture being moved around.

From this article it sounds like the wife admits being in the cabin, not sleeping on the deck.

Sherman agrees with O'Connor that probers have their work cut out for them: "(This wasn't) just a crime scene, it was a moving crime scene. And a private crime scene. Who knows if the cruise ship security people are cooperating fully? They have (potential) civil liability."

 

[luvbeaches]

luvbeaches - I know almost everyone has a postive experience, it's great fun on a cruise ship, I understand that.

I don't fully understand all the dymanics of what happened to him. They look like normal people, they are educated, the man died after days of begging for a helilift. Being a doctor it's unbelievable they didn't find his request credible. Their lawsuit against Carnival has ended in a massive fortune, his children who were stranded and forced to ride without their parents are now in a cush position.

The entire point here, is I don't ever want to be at the mercy of a limited number of people who decide my fate. I understand almost 100% of people have a good experience. Despite his knowledge and wealth, he died aboard a ship and no one would clear him for treatment.

That is such a sad thing...and I have no explanation as to why it happened. We cuise a lot, and have seen a lot, and at no time have I ever heard of something happing like you described. However, I do believe what you are saying...and it's mind boggleing, but I still cruise and travel abroad.

 

[KT Can]

Did anyone see Catherine Crier or Larry King today/tonight? I was in the other room only half listening, but some things were brought up that I had either not heard before or had not thought of.

Here are some excerpts from the LKL transcripts that I thought were interesting:
_______________________________________________________________

KING: Dr. Jordan, is it possible this may never be solved?

DR. CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: It's entirely possible. And in fact, it's probable. More people than you would think do go missing from cruise ships. It's not an everyday occurrence, but it doesn't usually make headlines. This one is making headlines because we have the photograph of the bloody awning, and we know that there's a lot of questions that are not yet answered.

We know that blood was discovered in a cabin by a cleaner, not by the wife. It wasn't the wife who reported him missing. So there's a lot that we don't know that happened in the early morning hours, that we're just now piecing together from other passengers who were on that ship.

KING: Tim, any motive being looked into here? Is there a wealthy insurance policy? Is the wife a suspect? Are there any suspects?

GREEN: Well, you're asking some good questions, Larry. First of all, to think that there's a possibility that the wife is involved, I don't think so. That seems highly unlikely. She was in a highly intoxicated state, barely able to walk. She's not a big woman. He's a big guy. I don't believe she could have injured him and then tossed him over. That's a four-foot railing. He's a big guy. I don't believe that's the case.

It's possible that he could have done some injury to himself and sent himself over that. I don't believe that's possible. This guy was seen with three young men, who people are talking about as the guys from Brooklyn, all right? Now, we don't know who these guys are. The FBI is not talking. The cruise line is not talking.

Guess what, Larry, those same three guys may be part of the five young men who were taken off the ship in Naples, Italy, questioned by authorities for an alleged rape of a young woman on that ship. They then, according to the Italian papers, they then produced three videotapes of the sexual act they committed with that young woman. Italian authorities exonerated them. However, the cruise ship kicked they and their families off the ship.

Now, there seems to be a connection. The best theory I've heard so far -- and again, this is a theory -- but the best theory I've heard so far is that quite possibly, both husband and wife were drugged. Someone put a drug into their drinks. They were both incoherent.

That would make sense if, in fact, these same people were drugging a woman to have, you know, to sexually assault her. Maybe they did that to the wife. Maybe George Smith came to in the midst of this, found them. They had an altercation. They killed him, sent him over the side.

The other thing that would make sense about this theory is that if, in fact, a drug was given to Jennifer, she may very well not remember anything about it, because these drugs typically are amnesiacs.
_________________________________________________________________________________

CALLER: Hi. I was wondering, I worked for Royal Caribbean a couple of years back, and I know for a fact when you reboard a ship, when you get off at port, you need a boarding pass. And then Tim's indicated the Brooklyn brothers were thrown off the ship back in Italy. How would it be possible for them to have reboarded the ship?

KING: Yeah. Tim Green, have you got an answer?

GREEN: The five young men who were taken off and questioned in Italy by the authorities regarding the alleged rape were not allowed to reboard the ship by the captain. Now, they were exonerated by Italian authorities. The Italian authorities viewed these three videotapes -- this is a report in an Italian newspaper -- viewed these three videotapes that they concluded the sex was consensual sex.

Let me just point out, again, another point about that. If there was a date rape drug involved, oftentimes if someone is under the influence of one of those drugs, an act like that might appear consensual, but might not actually be consensual. And that same type of drug, again, to Casey's point, could also lead to someone having no memory whatsoever of a crime that was committed against them or against their husband. But the five guys did not get back on the ship.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Couple of thoughts...

There could have been more guys to the original "group of 5" that were not thrown off at the previous port. Maybe a couple more "Brooklyn GHB rapists" were still on board and were still up to thier fun at sea. A date rape drug, or GHB, would certainly explain the wife not being able to remember anything from the previous evening as well as waking up someplace other than her cabin. I have heard that the husband was in the casino and the wife was either at another table or in the disco. Well, what if someone was hitting on her and slipped her some GHB. They could have talked her into going back to her cabin under the pretense of escorting her there because she didn't feel well. And trust me, they wouldn't have had to do much "talking her in to it" if she was on GHB. Once at the cabin this person or persons proceeded to try and rape her but were interrupted when her husband came home from the casino. A fight broke out and ended up with the injured bleeding husband going over board. The suspects probably didn't finish with the rape of the wife due to the enormity of the situation and being in a hurry to get out of there they probably figured they could just leave the wife there knowing she was on GHB and would not remember anything. The wife could have passed out during the attempted rape, only to wake up a short time later in a GHB induced fog, and in a moment of clarity noticed her husband missing. She could have left the room to go look for her husband, never knowing what transpired in the room, only to end up on a lounge chair somewhere half comatose. Of course she was too drugged so nothing she would do after taking the drug would make much sense. She may have known at the time what happened, but would not remember it later. Being on GHB can be compared to sleepwalking. You can walk, talk, partially grasp the moment at hand, but then you really can't do anything about it because you are in an alternate reality and you aren't able to remember it later.

On a side note, I would just like to mention that I have first hand knowledge of how a GHB "experience" goes down. It happens a lot more than we think and I have been told by people in the know that foreigners especially like to use GHB on naive unsuspecting American women. I have two friends, both smart professional women, who have been slipped GHB and ended up in precarious circumstances. In both situations neither of them had put themselves in an unsafe situation, and one unfortunately ended up being the victim of a crime while the other was fortunately rescued before anything serious happened. One situation happened in New Yor City in a very popular hotel and the other happened at port while on a Mediterranean cruise. I would never have believed anything like this could happen and someone could not remember what happened to them if I didn't know these two women and thier stories.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

KT Can, very interesting transcript. Thanks for sharing it. The GHB theory sounds very plausible to me. And I'm shocked about this group of 5 that were taken off in Italy. Disgusting! Imagine going on a cruise, running into those guys, and not even being able to get away from them because you're on the same darned ship! What a sad situation this is.

 

[mysteriew]

Yes, it does fit the known facts in the case very well. It is something that I had not considered.
It wouldn't even have had to someone associated with the original 5. It could have been someone totally on their own, who came equipped to have their own "vacation experiences".

 

[kahskye]

I don't have the link, but wasn't it said somewhere that the wife got up and went to the gym the next morning? Would this be possible if she had been slipped GHB?

 

[LaurenD]

I don't have the link, but wasn't it said somewhere that the wife got up and went to the gym the next morning? Would this be possible if she had been slipped GHB?

Yes, that was the original news reports, that she had awoke and went to the gym.

 

[PaperDoll]

If this story is true, about the 5 men and date rate, I would think they would take the wife back to their room and not hers for fear of having the husband walk in on them.

 

[texasgirl]

If this story is true, about the 5 men and date rate, I would think they would take the wife back to their room and not hers for fear of having the husband walk in on them.

Yes, that's what I was thinking too BUT what would have been the motive to kill him then?

I still stick with my theory---that she either never made it back to the room or she did and "they" started assaulting her and George woke up and confronted them---leading to a fight and his murder. Or there could be a robbery motive in there somewhere too....it's the wife's part in it that makes it so difficult to figure out. Did she go to the room or not? Did she go to the gym or not? I still think the gym thing is wrong...it doesn't fit with what I'm thinking.

Hmmm, did anyone ever wonder (like I did at first) if the wife was the one in the video that had consentual sex? I know it's a stretch but.....

 

[mysteriew]

If this story is true, about the 5 men and date rate, I would think they would take the wife back to their room and not hers for fear of having the husband walk in on them.

It depends. Husband and wife had been partying separately most of the evening. The perpetrator may not have realized that she was married, he may have thought that hubby would be partying longer, peretrator may have been traveling with family or his own wife or girlfriend which would make going to his room risky.

 

[poco]

If this story is true, about the 5 men and date rate, I would think they would take the wife back to their room and not hers for fear of having the husband walk in on them.

Date rate??? Is this true??? What kind of scale do they use??? How did the five men vote????

 

[PaperDoll]

Yes, that's what I was thinking too BUT what would have been the motive to kill him then?

I still stick with my theory---that she either never made it back to the room or she did and "they" started assaulting her and George woke up and confronted them---leading to a fight and his murder. Or there could be a robbery motive in there somewhere too....it's the wife's part in it that makes it so difficult to figure out. Did she go to the room or not? Did she go to the gym or not? I still think the gym thing is wrong...it doesn't fit with what I'm thinking.

Hmmm, did anyone ever wonder (like I did at first) if the wife was the one in the video that had consentual sex? I know it's a stretch but.....

That one has me puzzled, too.. Why include him in the picture if "they" were just after the wife... The theory from LKL transcript is that the husband and wife may have been drugged. Robbery could have been a motive as well.

Yes, I've wondered about that sex video being the wife. :waitasec:

 

[fs0002]

This makes sense to me (probably the only one)
Both George and wife were drunk, both argued and split-up.
One of the young guys took the wife back to her cabin and had
sex with her.
The other young guys not knowing their buddy was having sex in George's cabin, took the drunk George back to his cabin.
George sees his new wife in bed with one of the young guys, he sobers-up pretty quick to fight the guy, wife screams and runs out of room, now George is arguing and fighting with all the young guys. The young guys gang-up on poor George beats-him-up and throws him overboard. Wife is to drunk and scared so she never goes back to that room that night..........

Well if this is not what happened...perhaps I can write a screenplay!

 

[KT Can]

A husband and wife partying separately for most of the evening on a cruise ship is not that uncommon as I know that my husband and I have partied seperately on the two cruises that we have taken. My hubby likes to play black jack and could sit there all night while I have no interest in that. We made many friends on our cruises and felt very comfortable with a lot of these people. We would go on day excursions together, have dinner together and even hang out into the late late evening as couples in a group. Sometimes the men would go gamble while the ladies would hang in the disco playing silly bar games like the limbo and the chicken dance. My husband and I would check in with eachother throughout the evening, but I know from personal experience that I have retired to our cabin for bed at 2:00AM and hubby didn't come in from the casino until 5:00AM. That's a pretty significant window of opportunity for something to happen to me that hubby would not have been aware of. I can tell you this though, after the recent stories of people going missing on cruise ships, we will be a lot smarter the next time we cruise and will utilize the buddy system at all times.

The perpetrator(s) could probably have guessed that she was married, the ring would be thier first clue, and not many single girls with single occupancy cabins travel alone on these cruises. But, the perp(s) could have guesstimated that the hubby would be staying in the casino for a while, especially if the perp(s) were part of a group of friends that the couple had made. They would know hubbys gambling habits and would know if he was a 5:00AM guy. They could have figured that they would have enough time to do whatever they were going to do back at the hubby/wifes cabin. The wife could have been drugged but not the hubby. I think Mysterview is right in that the perp(s) could have been traveling with thier own family/parents/wife/girlfriend which would make going to thier room too risky. There is little risk in going back to hubby/wifes cabin if it is 1:30AM-2:00AM and the husband is known to stay in the casino until 5:00AM or so.

The things that puzzles me as well is the wife's statement about going to the gym. Did she go or not? Did she actually make this statement? The gym story doesn't fit with my theory at all. It doesn't make sense if the story is that the maids discovered blood in thier cabin, discoverd the occupants missing and a short time later found the wife sleeping in a chaise lounge somewhere with no recollection of the previous evening. I can't imagine her going to the gym after the crew explained to her what the situation was.

 

[KT Can]

Another thought...

I wonder if a toxicology screening of the wife's blood/urine/hair can be done to find out if she ingested GHB or a similar date rape drug recently? This could confirm a lot and at least rule out to investigators what didn't happen.