GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #2

[ToutCa]

[NY Post erroneously reports Taylan said sex with SS 1/19]

Not at all. How did they managed to translate the dates wrong!?

It's the NY Post, what do you expect?

For my critics of last night, I do not back off my criticism of the NY Post one iota.

Running the "Saria = drug mule???!!!" story based on no facts, nothing but contrived old innuendo the day her body was being shipped back to NYC, her home town, was self-serving, mean-spirited, and spiteful.

It was old, old insinuations and they could have waited a day or two until after the funeral if that was all they had to add.

I suspect they tried to dig up local dirt on the Sierras and found nothing. Then they probably tried to get an "exclusive" with the family and were shown the door. Angry, they ran the "drug mule" smear. Because they can. That's how things work in NYC -- it's hardball.

Over the body of a dead working-class Puerto Rican stay-at-home mother. Really, NY Post?

Their conduct in the SS affair is typical of them -- cruel, insensitive, obnoxious.

They are not in the top 6 newspapers in the USA, nor the top 6000 in recorded human history.

They are not a newspaper. They are a tabloid.

Their goal is to sell as much as possible with the most lurid stories possible. They are very, very good at it. Accuracy and human decency matter nothing to them.

They sell a lot of copies. Does that make them "good"?

McDonalds sells a lot of hamburgers. Does that mean they have the "best" hamburgers in NYC (or any town)? Ask anyone you know, or any New Yorker, where the best hamburger in town is, and they won't take you to Mickey D's unless they are certifiably insane.

Same goes for the "quality" of the New York Post.

 

[necco]

If there is a culture somewhere where this does not constitute infidelity but is rather a way of saying "hi, nice to meet you!", I will consider moving there.

ToutCa,
There are clubs for that sort of behavior. You may have to let people watch though. :floorlaugh:

 

[lavy]

A Turkish journalist talked to SS's mother

He was a bit worried but she was very nice to him and thanked to turkish people

Talks about the family, has a wedding photo

The only thing I learned is SS saved money for two months to make this trip.

http://www.haberturk.com/gundem/haber/817991-sierranin-ailesi-turkleri-niye-bu-kadar-sevdi

 

[ToutCa]

ToutCa,
There are clubs for that sort of behavior. You may have to let people watch though. :floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh:

The problem with that is that the kind of people you can hook up with in such clubs are usually the sort you would only hook up with in your darkest nightmares.

Only from what I have heard, of course!

 

[stmarysmead]

We all bring part of ourselves to these Boards. My husband travels internationally very frequently. It would devastate me to hear he was having casual sex on these trips with an Internet acquaintance..or anyone. Some of us feel that we have emotional responsibilities to those we love and to those who love and care for us in return, that temper the way we indulge ourselves.

Mothers "sacrifice" material things for their children, women and men "sacrifice" sexual opportunities...to respect their partners by showing fidelity.

My point was, unless Sarai's husband feels as some here do...that martial fidelity is not really important, Sarai's "fling", if true, is another burden for him to bear. I do hope this story is untrue.

 

[necco]

We all bring part of ourselves to these Boards. My husband travels internationally very frequently. It would devastate me to hear he was having casual sex on these trips with an Internet acquaintance..or anyone. Some of us feel that we have emotional responsibilities to those we love and to those who love and care for us in return, that temper the way we indulge ourselves.

Mothers "sacrifice" material things for their children, women and men "sacrifice" sexual opportunities...to respect their partners by showing fidelity.

My point was, unless Sarai's husband feels as some here do...that martial fidelity is not really important, Sarai's "fling", if true, is another burden for him to bear. I do hope this story is untrue.

Of course it would be terrible for him to hear and to bear. Please don't misunderstand what I said as condoning cheating. I'm not. It's a terrible thing and can annihilate lives. I think fidelity IS important. I don't think anyone here ever said it wasn't. (I did say that I don't think flirting is inappropriate as long as it is in good fun, yes, but that's entirely different.) I, too, would be devastated if my husband was having trysts while overseas. My point was that we are all human. We make mistakes. We take risks. And we don't deserve to die because of them, but sadly, sometimes we do.

 

[lavy]

NEWS

This one claims that they had sex twice and used condom in both. (I am writing this as this is from a source I think is credible. I always thought that if Taylan is saying they had sex than that's to cover up the sperm-dna in her body. I wasn't expecting this)

In the initial investigation done when SS reported missing showed that she was talking to few people from istanbul but the conversations were deleted. After that the records were sent to Turkish LE they found out that she was often talking to a guy who has a hostel in Cankurtaran! It is alleged that they also met. Police is investigating this further.

Police is also looking for a guy who works in a carpet shop. He is seen when giving his business card to SS. Again police is investigating this further.

http://www.haberturk.com/gundem/haber/817891-halici-ve-pansiyoncu-araniyor

 

[belimom]

I found one Tarkan K. Not sure if it's the right one or not. I hinted earlier than perhaps he met with LE in the middle of the night b/c he may be a successful businessman or have a reputation he wants to preserve. The rest of you trying to figure who he is: does that fit with your guesses?

 

[tardislass]

NEWS

This one claims that they had sex twice and used condom in both. (I am writing this as this is from a source I think is credible. I always thought that if Taylan is saying they had sex than that's to cover up the sperm-dna in her body. I wasn't expecting this)

In the initial investigation done when SS reported missing showed that she was talking to few people from istanbul but the conversations were deleted. After that the records were sent to Turkish LE they found out that she was often talking to a guy who has a hostel in Cankurtaran! It is alleged that they also met. Police is investigating this further.

Police is also looking for a guy who works in a carpet shop. He is seen when giving his business card to SS. Again police is investigating this further.

http://www.haberturk.com/gundem/haber/817891-halici-ve-pansiyoncu-araniyor

Yes, the Hurriyet article I linked to said the same thing about the two men.

 

[ToutCa]

I want to move on with the case, but one last thing on the "reliability" of the "leading American paper" (LOL) NY Post. A direct quote from their article today:

Amateur photographer Sarai Sierra — who left her husband and two young sons in New York for the trip overseas to take pictures — had sex the day before she vanished with a man she’d first met online last fall.

That's in a full paragraph on its own. So the average New Yorker reads that, and thinks this is true because they printed it. Unlike on Websleuths, there is no context so the average reader can know that this was said very recently by a top suspect in her murder who may be trying to explain away his semen and/or DNA on the scene. And that the only current evidence for the claim is his own self-serving statement.

Also, note that they hastily, making obvious errors of fact (dating the rendezvous for 1/19 instead of 1/20), sloppily tacked on the "Taylan/Tarkan sex claim" to their broader story of vague "drug mule" innuendo. So the subtext to the average reader is "hey, this was a drug-dealing *advertiser censored* who got what she deserved".

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the "leading American newspaper" NY Post in all its glory! LOL...

 

[belimom]

NEWS

This one claims that they had sex twice and used condom in both. (I am writing this as this is from a source I think is credible. I always thought that if Taylan is saying they had sex than that's to cover up the sperm-dna in her body. I wasn't expecting this)

In the initial investigation done when SS reported missing showed that she was talking to few people from istanbul but the conversations were deleted. After that the records were sent to Turkish LE they found out that she was often talking to a guy who has a hostel in Cankurtaran! It is alleged that they also met. Police is investigating this further.

Police is also looking for a guy who works in a carpet shop. He is seen when giving his business card to SS. Again police is investigating this further.

http://www.haberturk.com/gundem/haber/817891-halici-ve-pansiyoncu-araniyor

bbm

So I guess this is the same guy that was posted about last night - the one with the group of men later? Sounds like LE is making progress if they have now identified who he is.

One thing that stands out: this "witness" sure does happen to be at the same place as SS and the man-with-the-business-card often, doesn't s/he? Or was the location they were at the same one?

I have to go to work and am running very late. I'll check in later... Got to go.

 

[tardislass]

Of course it would be terrible for him to hear and to bear. Please don't misunderstand what I said as condoning cheating. I'm not. It's a terrible thing and can annihilate lives. I think fidelity IS important. I don't think anyone here ever said it wasn't. (I did say that I don't think flirting is inappropriate as long as it is in good fun, yes, but that's entirely different.) I, too, would be devastated if my husband was having trysts while overseas. My point was that we are all human. We make mistakes. We take risks. And we don't deserve to die because of them, but sadly, sometimes we do.

Sadly, hidden things can come up when a spouse dies . I read about a woman who's husband died and when she went through his things she found out he was carrying on an affair. It is devestating but adultery happens. But as others have stated, is no reason to be murdered. There would be no politicians for one thing!

 

[ToutCa]

This one claims that they had sex twice and used condom in both.

Very interesting. Let's see if that gets verified as true. They should most def investigate all the men she may have had contact with.

If the Taylan/Tarkan condom story is true, a couple alternatives are possible:

(1) He's just a very unlucky jerk whose story is true.

(2) He killed SS (maybe out of jealousy at her leaving) and knows that he left no semen at the crime scene, but the beating left his DNA all over her and her stuff. So he has to come up with a story to account for that. He figures, hey, maybe if I allege protected sex the day before that would explain my DNA everywhere.

 

[ToutCa]

I found one Tarkan K. Not sure if it's the right one or not. I hinted earlier than perhaps he met with LE in the middle of the night b/c he may be a successful businessman or have a reputation he wants to preserve. The rest of you trying to figure who he is: does that fit with your guesses?

I think he could be someone respectable with some power in or around Istanbul.

But none of the 21-22 suspects so far have had their identities released.

Lavy, is that normal in a Turkish police investigation?

 

[necco]

Sadly, hidden things can come up when a spouse dies . I read about a woman who's husband died and when she went through his things she found out he was carrying on an affair. It is devestating but adultery happens. But as others have stated, is no reason to be murdered. There would be no politicians for one thing!

I'm not sure that last sentence is going to help your "that's no reason to be murdered" stance. :floorlaugh:

I hope that it isn't true. But my objections were about the tendency to separate ourselves from victims by pointing out character flaws and the double standard about a mother's responsibility vs a father's. I was looking at the situation from but a psychological and sociological point of view.

 

[tardislass]

More I read, the more I'm convinced that LE are pretty sure who may have killed her but don't have enough circumstantial evidence so they are waiting for the DNA results.

 

[ToutCa]

More I read, the more I'm convinced that LE are pretty sure who may have killed her but don't have enough circumstantial evidence so they are waiting for the DNA results.

I get this feeling too. Something tells me they are 99% sure they have the perp (Taylan/Tarkan or someone we haven't even heard of) and are just waiting for lab results to take him down.

 

[lavy]

I think he could be someone respectable with some power in or around Istanbul.

But none of the 21-22 suspects so far have had their identities released.

Lavy, is that normal in a Turkish police investigation?

I think this is fairly normal. He could be someone respectable etc and that would be a reasonable scenario but actually turkish police is not allowed to release names anyway. In most cases we get initials of the suspect. Police could act especially protective in big cases.

From the actual legislation:

#27 - Unless proven to be guilty by a court decision suspect is considered as innocent and investigation is private. Therefore it is prohibited for a detained person/ suspect to be announced as the "criminal" to public. Also prohibited press to interview them, take photo, release names. Investigation documents can not be published until it is over.

http://www.mevzuat.adalet.gov.tr/html/23165.html

There are times that everybody knows the names for different reasons. For example we learned airbnb guy's name when she was missing and the situation turned out to be like this.

Imagine if Taylan is completely innocent and found himself in a case like this.

Is it very different in US?

 

[bet2173]

One thing that seems weird to me is if she didn't carry her camera with her and if she was only using her phone to take pictures, and if she solely traveled for photography purposes why did she take so few pictures?

I'm an instagram user myself and I can not take pictures on a regular basis when I'm busy, but there are days when I say "today it's only shooting day" and I take tens of pictures. And many instagramers do that. Check out Her Amsterdam friend Ammer's photo feed on instagram for example. You scroll down tons of pictures to see the pictures taken one week before.

There are a few pictures of Amsterdam, few pictures of her Istanbul visit before Amsterdam and unfortunately very few after Amsterdam. No plane pictures, no skyline pictures, nothing at all from Munich. That seemed very strange to me as if maybe taking pictures is like a secondary intention or a disgusie for the real intension.

Another thing, I've pasted her conversation with Ammer here last night. The first time they exchanged the idea of visiting each other. It was only 5 weeks before today. If she was planning this trip for a long time, how is that possible?

 

[Kluver13]

More I read, the more I'm convinced that LE are pretty sure who may have killed her but don't have enough circumstantial evidence so they are waiting for the DNA results.

I completely agree. I think the emails will be pretty damning and the DNA results confirmatory. The final piece is determining the killer's motive.
I still think this was a crime of passion involving 1 0f the 4 Turkish IGers. It would be interesting to know if they knew each other a priori. If that were the case, this could be just a childish schoolboy game to see who could woo her first, with jealous rage leading to murder. Or conversely she may have had relations with multiple partners. A particularly narcissistic personality would not take this well once this became apparent.
This is pure conjecture on my part and I am not trying to besmirch her name but there was certainly some questionable, high risk behavior here.
Terrible tragedy nonetheless.