GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #2

[necco]

If you dare have an opinion that isn't the most popular theory of the moment, prepare to be attacked.

Heck, the rate we're going, if your have an opinion that IS the most popular theory of the moment, prepare to be attacked.

*passes out chocolate and stressballs to everyone*

Let's take a deep breath. Let's regroup. Maybe we should summarize today's developments and start fresh.

 

[KuriousKev]

Maybe SS went over to the wall to photograph graffiti in 1 last effort to capture images before her departure. Once there, started photographing something she wasn't supposed to see, maybe drug use or another crime. The perp became enraged and killed SS, this is why her phone/ipad are missing. Just a thought

 

[AuburnPoet]

BBM


If you dare have an opinion that isn't the most popular theory of the moment, prepare to be attacked.

SNipped by me for space.

CMac2 I have noticed on several missing/crime threads of late that the sniping and the overall tone has been, how shall I say this, ummm not as "friendly" as used to be.

I have stopped following certain threads closely or just stopped in to see if they were resolved because of the anger or nastyness. I don't know why it has changed all of a sudden but seems like in the last couple months it has.

Who knows. Guess we just post our theories, thoughts or ideas and ignore the attacking/backbiting altogether. Either that or drop in for an update and move on to another thread that is a little, ... um less snipey.

I enjoy reading your thoughts and ideas though and hope you continue to post. Sometimes I am pressed for time and skim posts but if I see it is you I will try and focus on your comments and really ready what you have to bring to the conversation. I do that with several active regulars at WS and have learned a lot over the years of my lurking.

THanks for being here.
AP

 

[tardislass]

Changing the subject- while I'm now 90% convinced Taylan had nothing to do with the killing, its a coincidence that his lawyer made the statement right before the DNA results were leaked. Hmm

As for druggie theory, if he took her pack with iPad and laptop wouldn't cameras have recorded him fleeing the area. Secondly, if he left her jewelry because it was bloody, her jacket would be too. Not sure I buy that theory.

 

[KivaSupporter]

Sarai, who filed for bankruptcy on 2005, had been unemployed for several years but recently got a part time job at a chiropractor’s office.

Her 40-year-old husband is a New York City bus driver. He drives an old Safari mini bus and neighbours said money appeared tight. Sarai usually walked everywhere with the boys.

Her parents Dennis and Betzaida Jimenez, who also declared bankruptcy in 2005, live a five-minute drive away and often babysat while Sarai took time off from motherhood to go into Manhattan to take photographs.

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=He+drives+an+old+Safari+mini+bus+and+neighbours+said+money+appeared+tight.+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GZAG_enUS463US464&q=He+drives+an+old+Safari+mini+bus+and+neighbours+said+money+appeared+tight.+&gs_l=hp....0.0.1.167477...........0.UrXCAwzH54I#q=He+drives+an+old+Safari+mini+bus+and+neighbours+said+money+appeared+tight.&hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1T4GZAG_enUS463US464&ei=liEUUfLNNMiW0QHC2YCQDQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42080656,d.dmQ&fp=261236aa2e23defb&biw=1311&bih=526

 

[Yellow]

I'm sorry but I still just don't think 9 and 11 are small children. Adults far to often tend to underestimate kids. Yes I agree I would not leave them alone either. But at 9 and 11 they don't need constant super vision in the house. By 9 and 11 kids can do a lot of things for themselves. I have loads of experience with 3-6 year olds, and most people even underestimate them and their capabilities and level of understanding. 9 and 11 is far older then that.

Also I don't see people accusing fathers of abandoning their children on a business trip when they are left with their mother! Why is sarai being accused of not thinking of her children by leaving them with their OWN father?

People may have different views on whether 9 and 11 are young or not; but I do not think anyone is accusing anyone of abandoning their kids nor do I see anyone making comments about females being different from men.

The topic above dealt w whether it is COMMON for a parent to leave children who cannot cook for themselves and who cannot be left overnight in a house for 3 weeks while they go on vacation. it does not matter who is watching them; most parents (whether male or female) do not leave their kids for 3 weeks to go on vacation by themselves. Maybe parents (male or female) have to do it for business; still I do not think it is "common" to leave them for business reasons either, bc most trips do not last that long.

It is not a normative statement about whether it is good or bad to do that; rather it is just making a factual observation about whether it is COMMON to do that. If you add to it the fact that SS was of limited means and not an experienced traveler, it is just not that common to leave kids who still require some attention and go on vacation. Saying that it is not common is not the same as saying it is unwise or bad, far from it.

Maybe in an ideal world, all parents would have this Eat, Pray Love time. But I don't think most or even many parents go on vacations by themselves. Maybe they should but they don't. In fact most probably want to, but many lack the resources, financial as well as child care. SS was lucky in that she had people to help care for her kids and share the responsibility. Maybe her husband was planning a trip by himself too for later in the year,

 

[Yashim]

Changing the subject- while I'm now 90% convinced Taylan had nothing to do with the killing, its a coincidence that his lawyer made the statement right before the DNA results were leaked. Hmm

As for druggie theory, if he took her pack with iPad and laptop wouldn't cameras have recorded him fleeing the area. Secondly, if he left her jewelry because it was bloody, her jacket would be too. Not sure I buy that theory.

This is assuming all crimes (rape, murder, theft) committed by the same druggie. One druggie kills her and hides the body. Then flees the scene. Another sees the jacket and takes it. The news program that I listened to said her pants (jeans) were found several feet away from her body. (Maybe not even in the cave.) She was attacked. Puts up a fight. Loses jacket and jeans. Druggie smashes her head with a stone. Hides her body and flees. Someone else find the iPad on the grass. But no sign of her. Takes the iPad.

 

[belimom]

There were no pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge on her account. And if there were, I would expect lots of pictures of SF.

You may be right - I was scrolling way back and thought I saw one that was not one of the NY bridges. I can't locate it now so maybe I was mistaken.

However, she was definitely in DC but there are no pictures of the monuments, etc. There's much more to photograph here in DC than the inside ceiling of a metro (subway) stop. So if she went to SF (which now it looks like she may not have), then I wouldn't necessarily expect to see lots of pics of the area.

On another note, I did notice when I just went back to search that she has lots of pictures of bridges and also a fair number (not as many) of archways and doors. I do believe she may have gone to Galata Bridge and on to Topatki and that area to take pictures of the walls/archways. Whether she met up with someone she knew, we still don't know...

 

[ThinkHard]

BBM

Who accused Sarai of not thinking of her children when she left them with her father? Unless I misunderstood the entire tone of the conversation, all that's been said by anyone here is that her decision to travel to Turkey alone with two small children at home is not a common thing to do. That's it- just looking at personal experience- it's not the most common thing for a mother of two to do.

Doesn't make it wrong, doesn't mean she wasn't thinking of her children. None of those things.

What is with people getting so defensive when someone has a different world view than they do? At the end of the day, all we have are theories. None of us know what happened, none of us know Sarai, or what she was thinking when she did any of the things she did. That's why sleuthing this case gets so exhausting.

I've been out of the country- alone- since my kids were born (and they were younger than Sarai's are). I left my husband in charge of them. Be that as it may, I can acknowledge that like Sarai, what I did, was not a common thing to do. There wasn't anything wrong with it- but not a ton of people do it.

If you dare have an opinion that isn't the most popular theory of the moment, prepare to be attacked.

I wasnt being defensive not in the least. Of course everyone has their own opinion.

The conversation just made me think that if roles were reveresed and it was the male leaving, perception would be different.

It was just an observation, more then anything.

 

[diamond12]

I'm rather sick at the moment so forgive me if I write stupid stuff
I see people making comments on her solo traveling etc, but I wonder one thing. The family was tight on money right? It took her only two months to save for this trip? Is it normal to have 3 weeks straight of vacation from a job like the one she had?
I thought she recently got that job, maybe I'm just confusing things.


Right after she went missing I saw LE took it rather seriously and I had the impression it was going to be solved "fast". Now I have a feeling that regardless of LE efforts this might really remain a cold case

 

[CMac2]

This is assuming all crimes (rape, murder, theft) committed by the same druggie. One druggie kills her and hides the body. Then flees the scene. Another sees the jacket and takes it. The news program that I listened to said her pants (jeans) were found several feet away from her body. (Maybe not even in the cave.) She was attacked. Puts up a fight. Loses jacket and jeans. Druggie smashes her head with a stone. Hides her body and flees. Someone else find the iPad on the grass. But no sign of her. Takes the iPad.

Question for you. I don't think I can pose this delicately, sorry about that- but could animals be a factor here? I don't expect a squirrel ran away with her jacket or anything, but if her jeans were removed by the perp for whatever reason, could they have been moved somehow by a critter of some kind? Does that kind of thing even happen? Forgive my ignorance.

Like I always say- I'd love nature if there were no bugs, and the only animals were horses and dogs!

 

[Yashim]

Maybe SS went over to the wall to photograph graffiti in 1 last effort to capture images before her departure. Once there, started photographing something she wasn't supposed to see, maybe drug use or another crime. The perp became enraged and killed SS, this is why her phone/ipad are missing. Just a thought

Maybe. But then she would be ready to start running.

And if she saw druggies inhaling Bally shoe glue, druggies won't really be worried. But if she witnessed a mafia execution, then she wouldn't be killed with a stone.

Those druggies are what you see in the movies. 8-20 year-old kids sniffing stuff. They could never afford anything more illegal.

 

[ThinkHard]

Heck, the rate we're going, if your have an opinion that IS the most popular theory of the moment, prepare to be attacked.

*passes out chocolate and stressballs to everyone*

Let's take a deep breath. Let's regroup. Maybe we should summarize today's developments and start fresh.

Yes. Can we all try to agree on two things:

- let's try to make sure we are addressing the post and not the person as nursebeeme reminded us. Because I'm pretty sure thought analysis is kind of the point of this forum.

- let's try to be a little less sensitive, and stop assuming that every time someone counters you it's a personal attack

Can we all try that? Pretty please with a cherry on top!

 

[tardislass]

I'm rather sick at the moment so forgive me if I write stupid stuff
I see people making comments on her solo traveling etc, but I wonder one thing. The family was tight on money right? It took her only two months to save for this trip? Is it normal to have 3 weeks straight of vacation from a job like the one she had?
I thought she recently got that job, maybe I'm just confusing things.


Right after she went missing I saw LE took it rather seriously and I had the impression it was going to be solved "fast". Now I have a feeling that regardless of LE efforts this might really remain a cold case

I believe she worked part time. Which may or may not have been many hours a week.

 

[Meri]

Here's something I am confused about and maybe you guys can help me out if I've got it all wrong: SS was missing for about 2 weeks, correct? When her body was found, they said she had been deceased for a week, correct? Then they said she was killed at the site where she was found, correct? Where was she that week (alive) in between when she went missing and then was found dead? ,

Thanks!

 

[Yashim]

Question for you. I don't think I can pose this delicately, sorry about that- but could animals be a factor here? I don't expect a squirrel ran away with her jacket or anything, but if her jeans were removed by the perp for whatever reason, could they have been moved somehow by a critter of some kind? Does that kind of thing even happen? Forgive my ignorance.

Like I always say- I'd love nature if there were no bugs, and the only animals were horses and dogs!

Not likely. LE would have found the jacket by now. And jeans would have marks that would give LE the clue. Only animals you'd see would be cats and dogs. Nothing more in that part of Istanbul.

Well, I have seen crows attempting to carry away table cloths, plant containers. But I doubt that's what happened.

 

[Yashim]

Here's something I am confused about and maybe you guys can help me out if I've got it all wrong: SS was missing for about 2 weeks, correct? When her body was found, they said she had been deceased for a week, correct? Then they said she was killed at the site where she was found, correct? Where was she that week (alive) in between when she went missing and then was found dead? ,

Thanks!

In that cave, I guess.

 

[ThinkHard]

People may have different views on whether 9 and 11 are young or not; but I do not think anyone is accusing anyone of abandoning their kids nor do I see anyone making comments about females being different from men.

The topic above dealt w whether it is COMMON for a parent to leave children who cannot cook for themselves and who cannot be left overnight in a house for 3 weeks while they go on vacation. it does not matter who is watching them; most parents (whether male or female) do not leave their kids for 3 weeks to go on vacation by themselves. Maybe parents (male or female) have to do it for business; still I do not think it is "common" to leave them for business reasons either, bc most trips do not last that long.

It is not a normative statement about whether it is good or bad to do that; rather it is just making a factual observation about whether it is COMMON to do that. If you add to it the fact that SS was of limited means and not an experienced traveler, it is just not that common to leave kids who still require some attention and go on vacation. Saying that it is not common is not the same as saying it is unwise or bad, far from it.

Maybe in an ideal world, all parents would have this Eat, Pray Love time. But I don't think most or even many parents go on vacations by themselves. Maybe they should but they don't. In fact most probably want to, but many lack the resources, financial as well as child care. SS was lucky in that she had people to help care for her kids and share the responsibility. Maybe her husband was planning a trip by himself too for later in the year,

Hey you just made me think of something...perhaps sarai recently read eat pray love and got the romantic idea to travel alone during this 3rd life crisis

 

[tardislass]

Maybe. But then she would be ready to start running.

And if she saw druggies inhaling Bally shoe glue, druggies won't really be worried. But if she witnessed a mafia execution, then she wouldn't be killed with a stone.

Those druggies are what you see in the movies. 8-20 year-old kids sniffing stuff. They could never afford anything more illegal.

Just seems a bit odd that they kill her for seeing them huffing.

 

[CMac2]

I'm rather sick at the moment so forgive me if I write stupid stuff
I see people making comments on her solo traveling etc, but I wonder one thing. The family was tight on money right? It took her only two months to save for this trip? Is it normal to have 3 weeks straight of vacation from a job like the one she had?
I thought she recently got that job, maybe I'm just confusing things.


Right after she went missing I saw LE took it rather seriously and I had the impression it was going to be solved "fast". Now I have a feeling that regardless of LE efforts this might really remain a cold case

Great points. I believe it was ThinkHard who said you can fly round trip to Turkey this time of year for $393.00, and someone else (maybe the same person) said the Hostel wouldn't have cost more than $100-$200 total. In addition, there's spending money, food and the trip to Amsterdam and Munich to factor in. I think compared to some vacations, this one falls on the less expensive side of average, but for a family who is already on a tight budget, she'd have to save probably at least a thousand bucks in two months' time.

I also know she was a college student. I know it's not totally kosher, but I've known students who receive financial aid checks above and beyond the total cost of tuition. They put those checks to use on other things- vacations, other financial obligations, that sort of thing. Maybe she paid for part of the trip that way?

As for getting the time off from work, that would be another challenge. I work in Human Resources and can tell you that generally speaking, employees that are hourly and part-time are not give standard vacation time. That doesn't mean they can't take a day off- it just means that any time taken off work would be taken without pay. Being a new employee, I'm surprised she was able to convince her boss to give her the time off, but sometimes employees will negotiate that sort of thing prior to their start date. In other words, they'll take the job offer, but will say, "I have a trip planned to Turkey in January. I'll be gone three weeks, is that ok?"

OR- maybe she got this job for this specific reason, and was putting her entire paycheck aside for the trip. If she did it that way, she could probably save up enough money within 2-3 months, I'd imagine.