GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[ThinkHard]

Thinkhard or Herat or anyone who knows the area. Could she have had the ability to write her text from that area/place? Is that what Wireless capacity means or did she need an internet cafe? Confusing to me as I have no tech gadjets

Highly doubtful wifi would have existed in that spot. Wifi in turkey is typically supplied by a business, and if you wish to use it need to ask them for the pass code. Because there were no businesses in that area I doubt wifi would be available.

The only way she could have sent a text from that area, if it did indeed come from her American phone, was by having her American phone set to roaming, and this is only possible if her phone provider back home used gsm networks. You can't pop foreign sims cards into American phones because they are locked.

The other option is if her iPad was enabled as 3G/4g and not just the wifi only version. iPads do not come locked, and she could have purchased a turkcell prepaid data card to use in her iPad. Which in theory she could have texted from that location this way.

 

[zarra30]

Text to her sister was on the day she disappeared on the 21st. Family says it was at 9:20 am , which would make one think of course 9:2 am NYC time, which f course would be 4:20 Istanbul time, which yes would be hours after her last sighting and the supposed time of ths random attack by Z.

However I don't think the actual time of the text has ever really been confirmed. So f the 9:20am time was correct, we don't 100% know if it is 9:20 NYC time (420pm Istanbul time) or 9:20 am Istanbul time (2:20am NYC time)

Exactly.......I agree, we can't be sure.....
So confusing. Nothing ever gets confirmed in this case..........LOL

 

[Yashim]

I also have a hard time believing she was taking pictures of Ziya....how exactly would anyone "know" that.

I seriously believe that SS would even hesitate to approach Ziya, let alone take his pictures.

I mean just look at him. He looks like an assassin.

I am no ophthalmologist, but even I can tell his eyes are looking evil.

 

[Yashim]

No witness said that he/she saw SS take pictures of Ziya.

That part of the story "communicating w/ hand gestures and taking pictures of Ziya" is the reporter invaluable contribution.

Witnesses only said "she took pictures of us. then after some time we heard a piercing scream."

Maybe she just wanted to relieve herself and went into a cave. And Ziya shows up telling her that's the wrong corner and attacks her.

Seriously. It is a probable.

 

[zarra30]

But knowing the locations of all 20 cameras and hiring a girl to walk along to distort evidence, isn't this a plan? If Z is a simple paper collector that's too much of a planning for him.
.......

Good point.
but can't assume a person is of limited intelligence based on his occupation or lack of occupation -not realistic.
There are some real clever people who aren't CEOs. LOL

I'm just guessing that if ya kill someone, accident or otherwise, your first step won't be to call the cops and say..."Listen, if you get a moment. can you swing by..." it will be to plan something to make yourself look good, and he'll need an alibi, very important.

 

[ThinkHard]

I know that certain things in this case, and certainly media would like us to believe this was random.

But for me there are too many things that don't seem to be so random.

And I fear that the only reason we could be getting such mixed messages is if there is some type of professional element involved in this that would really LIKE the crime scene to appear random.

Things that don't fit with random as far as I'm concerned.
1. Why attack in broad daylight (I believe the other rape cases in that area were in the evening).
2. Why did other supposed witnesses scatter given Z alone time with S.
3. Why did earrings accidentally knocked off in a struggle, end up near the body when the struggle and the body supposedly happened in two separate places.
4. Why take both electronics
5. Why leave her license
6. Why leave her jewelry
7. Why use your own DNA covered blanket to leave with the body.
8. How did her pants end up completely off? Were her shoes on? How'd those get off? How could they stay on but the pants came off?
9. What made her head to those walls, that spot, that day?


I've also been trying to visualize how the attack may have gone down simply by what we "know" of her injuries....not in regards to the circumstance before and after, or the perp...anyway

It's seems the perp would have had to a come at her, she puts her hands out scratches at his face maybe aiming for his eyes, her grabs her wrists maybe smashes her hands back, possible squeezing hand hard enough to break fingers if it was at the right angle. She manages to squirm away, he chases her, grabs at her pants she falls, hits chin on ground, maybe even get hip bruise by falling, or hip bruise could have happened if in the initial attach he slammed her against a wall. Then he has her Nancy's she's on the ground, fingers also could have been broken in this fall if they were at an awkward angle when she reached out to catch herself, might also explain why her chin dropped and not the ground, chin also cold have landed on a rock, causing the chin wound. So anyway she's on the ground, on stomach, maybe she has a chance to turn over and fight him a little more, maybe she doesn't, but I think it is at this point he grabs the rock and smashes it into the side of her head. Maybe she is turned over, and sees the blow coming and turns her head to the side, making contacting at the side of her head.

So now what this perp has a dead woman under him.... Blood from a head blow would have had to splatter on him.

I would think z would have been reported to have been covered in substantially more blood.

Did her roll around in the dirt to cover blood, would this make it look muddy?

So he kills her, he's covered in her blood ( if his blood ended up on her shirt those must have been some pretty nasty scratched, or she must have been able to wound him in another way, maybe even with a rock ( I wonder if his family noted an injuries to him).
So he's bloodied, now he has to go around and collect any of her things? Assuming she had a device in her hand it would have gotten dropped in the struggle. What about the earrings?

So he wraps her in his own blanket drags her to this other cave, crams her through a hole, walks around looking for any of her things that have been dropped, makes sure theses including her pants (again how'd these get all the way removed anyway, if her shoes were on?), all get tossed in the hole with her. Walks around the area, someone covered any bviohs evidence of a struggle and murder. At some point on all this takes the selected things of hers he wants ( leaves the rest), then masks the blood on his body.

And leaves the scene......no one sees any of this? Even though in just about that spot there was a group of homeless men hanging around.....

Anybody else have trouble believing Z did all this, or that the motive was his alone, or just in general feel like something is not makin sense.

 

[ThinkHard]

No witness said that he/she saw SS take pictures of Ziya.

That part of the story "communicating w/ hand gestures and taking pictures of Ziya" is the reporter invaluable contribution.

Witnesses only said "she took pictures of us. then after some time we heard a piercing scream."

Maybe she just wanted to relieve herself and went into a cave. And Ziya shows up telling her that's the wrong corner and attacks her.

Seriously. It is a probable.

I don't see an American woman wondering into that spot to pop a squat.

 

[Yashim]

So this is not a Russian spy or a German assassin.

He is a Turkish homeless guy?

After spending decades trying to build a stereotype of Turkish men as over-friendly, hairy men with uni-brows, thick mustache and dark skin tone, this is what we get.

Ziya, the Laz appearing as the Turkish man who is the major suspect of a murder crime on all foreign media!

This is so unfair.

 

[Yashim]

I don't see an American woman wondering into that spot to pop a squat.

Yes, that would be the one odd thing in this entire case.

 

[Yellow]

I know that certain things in this case, and certainly media would like us to believe this was random.

But for me there are too many things that don't seem to be so random.

And I fear that the only reason we could be getting such mixed messages is if there is some type of professional element involved in this that would really LIKE the crime scene to appear random.

Things that don't fit with random as far as I'm concerned.
1. Why attack in broad daylight (I believe the other rape cases in that area were in the evening).
2. Why did other supposed witnesses scatter given Z alone time with S.
3. Why did earrings accidentally knocked off in a struggle, end up near the body when the struggle and the body supposedly happened in two separate places.
4. Why take both electronics
5. Why leave her license
6. Why leave her jewelry
7. Why use your own DNA covered blanket to leave with the body.
8. How did her pants end up completely off? Were her shoes on? How'd those get off? How could they stay on but the pants came off?
9. What made her head to those walls, that spot, that day?


I've also been trying to visualize how the attack may have gone down simply by what we "know" of her injuries....not in regards to the circumstance before and after, or the perp...anyway

It's seems the perp would have had to a come at her, she puts her hands out scratches at his face maybe aiming for his eyes, her grabs her wrists maybe smashes her hands back, possible squeezing hand hard enough to break fingers if it was at the right angle. She manages to squirm away, he chases her, grabs at her pants she falls, hits chin on ground, maybe even get hip bruise by falling, or hip bruise could have happened if in the initial attach he slammed her against a wall. Then he has her Nancy's she's on the ground, fingers also could have been broken in this fall if they were at an awkward angle when she reached out to catch herself, might also explain why her chin dropped and not the ground, chin also cold have landed on a rock, causing the chin wound. So anyway she's on the ground, on stomach, maybe she has a chance to turn over and fight him a little more, maybe she doesn't, but I think it is at this point he grabs the rock and smashes it into the side of her head. Maybe she is turned over, and sees the blow coming and turns her head to the side, making contacting at the side of her head.

So now what this perp has a dead woman under him.... Blood from a head blow would have had to splatter on him.

I would think z would have been reported to have been covered in substantially more blood.

Did her roll around in the dirt to cover blood, would this make it look muddy?

So he kills her, he's covered in her blood ( if his blood ended up on her shirt those must have been some pretty nasty scratched, or she must have been able to wound him in another way, maybe even with a rock ( I wonder if his family noted an injuries to him).
So he's bloodied, now he has to go around and collect any of her things? Assuming she had a device in her hand it would have gotten dropped in the struggle. What about the earrings?

So he wraps her in his own blanket drags her to this other cave, crams her through a hole, walks around looking for any of her things that have been dropped, makes sure theses including her pants (again how'd these get all the way removed anyway, if her shoes were on?), all get tossed in the hole with her. Walks around the area, someone covered any bviohs evidence of a struggle and murder. At some point on all this takes the selected things of hers he wants ( leaves the rest), then masks the blood on his body.

And leaves the scene......no one sees any of this? Even though in just about that spot there was a group of homeless men hanging around.....

Anybody else have trouble believing Z did all this, or that the motive was his alone, or just in general feel like something is not makin sense.

It does appear odd... Add to that the text to sister which someone said today occurred AFTER all this commotion, how could that have happened? She would have been dead, how did that text go out?

I also cannot understand how no one else saw this commotion or heard it. It does not appear THAT deserted. Unless he dragged her into cave, but that cave looks too small for that

I do not see how no one else saw this,,,in broad daylight no less..

 

[Yashim]

And travels all the way to Turkey to find him: 'tragic' in a truly classic sense.

Maybe she had been there before....

She didn't seem like just wandering....

 

[ThinkHard]

I wish we knew for sure that her sister did receive the txt at 9:20 am NYC time. Because that would mean that the text was sent at 4:20 pm Istanbul time. And if that is a fact it either means that Sarai was either still alive at 4:20 in the afternoon in Istanbul and survived for at least 3 hrs after her last camera sighting near the walls.

Or it means that someone wanted family and LE to believe she was still alive at 4:20 pm Istanbul time. And because we can guess that Ziya does not know English. Someone other then Ziya would have had to have those electronics to send that text.

If it really is her on camera, and if she really was killed by Ziya at those walls sometime around 2pm ( basing that on her being seen on an eminonu camera at 1:30, and adding the mininimal time it would take her to walk to the place she was found), then hypothetically Ziya would have had enough time to kill her, move her, clean himself up, and meet someone to hand over the electronics too (a little over a 2 hr window), and perhaps whoever he handed the electronics too, whoever recruited him for murder, is who sent those text. IF in fact that text was received at 9:20 am NYC time.

 

[SandyP]

Yes, I agree with that. Thanks.

According to the media, there is reason to believe Z was involved in the murder of that woman.

If the dead woman's face was unrecognizable and there were wounds on her body, was it possible to determine it was definitely SS? Did they just assume it was her?

I would like to know if LE took samples of SS's DNA when they collected her luggage from the apartment. Or, are they assuming the deceased was SS.

Maybe wrong but I am still not buying what the media is wanting us to believe. Something does not ring true to me.

Early on in the case, I was wondering how SS's body was identified, other than the visual ID by Steven Sierra. I have not seen mention anywhere of any DNA testing to confirm the body was her, either of material from her room in Istanbul or clothing or another item Steven may have brought from NY. If the face was as disfigured as we have been led to believe, then how was she ID'ed?

Problem is, any of the scenarios I can think of for the body not being her quickly get extremely complicated and far-fetched.

 

[ThinkHard]

yes, that would be the one odd thing in this entire case.

bahahahahahahahahahah

 

[zarra30]

Yashim,
at 4:20 pm, Istanbul would it have been still light or getting dark?

if she was alive at 4:20 PM

I think of little details like where did she eat?
How did she pay?
chat with a waiter. ?
use a bathroom
I am always confused over not having the time confirmed for pretty much anything....LOL...

 

[ThinkHard]

Would you guys believe that a homeless person, such as Ziya, could be convinced to be an accompliss to murder, if someone could promise him that they could get him out of the country so you would never serve time for it?

 

[SandyP]

I wish we knew for sure that her sister did receive the txt at 9:20 am NYC time. Because that would mean that the text was sent at 4:20 pm Istanbul time. And if that is a fact it either means that Sarai was either still alive at 4:20 in the afternoon in Istanbul and survived for at least 3 hrs after her last camera sighting near the walls.

Or it means that someone wanted family and LE to believe she was still alive at 4:20 pm Istanbul time. And because we can guess that Ziya does not know English. Someone other then Ziya would have had to have those electronics to send that text.

If it really is her on camera, and if she really was killed by Ziya at those walls sometime around 2pm ( basing that on her being seen on an eminonu camera at 1:30, and adding the mininimal time it would take her to walk to the place she was found), then hypothetically Ziya would have had enough time to kill her, move her, clean himself up, and meet someone to hand over the electronics too (a little over a 2 hr window), and perhaps whoever he handed the electronics too, whoever recruited him for murder, is who sent those text. IF in fact that text was received at 9:20 am NYC time.

Maybe the 9:20AM was sent time from Istanbul. Or maybe the family saw the text at 9:20AM, which is when they might have woken up?

Anyone who has a Samsung Galaxy like SS's....can these phones be locked like an iPhone? I assume SS, being a New Yorker, would have locked her phone so that in the event it was lost or stolen it couldn't be used. Also is there an app for this type of phone that can locate the phone like the "Find my iPhone" app?

 

[bet2173]

could be convinced to be an accompliss to murder, if someone could promise him that they could get him out of the country so you would never serve time for it?

out of the country and into the civil war in syria...

 

[Yashim]

What exactly did Z's DNA match?

DNA found on the deceased woman's body?

Z's DNA and the deceased woman's DNA?

Both?

Z's DNA and SS's DNA obtained in a way other than from the dead body?


See previous theory in this thread.

The only thing that we know is that two DNAs matched.

Let's hope it's not an intern's mistake of matching the same DNA. It could be quite possible that DNA from Z's hair matching DNA from Z's blanket.

What I gather is that the DNA from the Ziya's brothers house matched DNA from the dead body's fingernails.

I don't even believe anything anymore. Was there even a body there?

The only things that looked real was her mom's shocked expression in the very first days and her husband's tears on a news footage I saw. Those were so genuine. No one can fake that.

That tells me something bad really happened.

 

[ThinkHard]

Maybe the 9:20AM was sent time from Istanbul. Or maybe the family saw the text at 9:20AM, which is when they might have woken up?

Anyone who has a Samsung Galaxy like SS's....can these phones be locked like an iPhone? I assume SS, being a New Yorker, would have locked her phone so that in the event it was lost or stolen it couldn't be used. Also is there an app for this type of phone that can locate the phone like the "Find my iPhone" app?

Yes maybe it was, these comments were a continuation of previous posts exploring that option, which is way I said I WISH WE KNEW FOR SURE

Because if it was then we could conclude with certainty one of two things.....


I'm sure all phones can be locked, but I'd be willing to bet her devices were not. Most people don't lock there devices unless they keep business emails on there phone, and usually this is company policy, if the phone is also a business phone it must always be locked, especially if the persons business involved potential confidential client information, such as if the business is something to do with finance. I know this only because my mom is the only one I know that keeps her phone locked under pass code and its for this very reason.

Sure some people keep it pass codes just because they like to, but I think most people do not.

Location apps can be added through apps, but are not automatic. It is possible to triangulate via pings phone location, but only if its on.