GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[SandyP]

out of the country and into the civil war in syria...

I don't think the theft of an ipad and a cell phone would be grounds for murder in a scenario where you then have to go on the lam to a foreign country.

 

[SandyP]

Yes maybe it was, these comments were a continuation of previous posts exploring that option, which is way I said I WISH WE KNEW FOR SURE

Because if it was then we could conclude with certainty one of two things.....


I'm sure all phones can be locked, but I'd be willing to bet her devices were not. Most people don't lock there devices unless they keep business emails on there phone, and usually this is company policy, if the phone is also a business phone it must always be locked, especially if the persons business involved potential confidential client information, such as if the business is something to do with finance. I know this only because my mom is the only one I know that keeps her phone locked under pass code and its for this very reason.

Sure some people keep it pass codes just because they like to, but I think most people do not.

Just about everyone I know here in NY keeps their phone locked. Lots of personal stuff on there. Plus you want to stick it to a criminal if they steal it -- ha - can't use it!

 

[Yashim]

out of the country and into the civil war in syria...

Who does that?

Unless he has people there....

I won't be surprised if he turns out to be a Keyser Soze....

 

[ThinkHard]

out of the country and into the civil war in syria...

Well the Syrian border could be a decoy. Perhaps they said get there, and then we will get you out.

If LE thinks he's going to the Syria border....they look there

Getting him out from there and elsewhere may be easier and LESS traceable, given all the turmoil, and refugees in that area right now. But be harder for locals to notice someone not from there.

Just speculating of course.

 

[SANDOVAL]

No witness said that he/she saw SS take pictures of Ziya.

That part of the story "communicating w/ hand gestures and taking pictures of Ziya" is the reporter invaluable contribution.

Witnesses only said "she took pictures of us. then after some time we heard a piercing scream."

Maybe she just wanted to relieve herself and went into a cave. And Ziya shows up telling her that's the wrong corner and attacks her.

Seriously. It is a probable.

Yes, i did wonder yesterday if she either took his picture inadvertently, while he was 'doing private business', or.....if she herself 'had to go' and that prompted the rape scenario?

 

[Kluver13]

It does appear odd... Add to that the text to sister which someone said today occurred AFTER all this commotion, how could that have happened? She would have been dead, how did that text go out?

I also cannot understand how no one else saw this commotion or heard it. It does not appear THAT deserted. Unless he dragged her into cave, but that cave looks too small for that

I do not see how no one else saw this,,,in broad daylight no less..

The presumption is that Sarai sent the text. Perhaps the perp knew Sarai and texted her sister after the fact in order to buy some time. Z is clearly implicated in some way via DNA. The strangeness of this case has always led me to believe that more than one individual was involved in the murder and the subsequent location of her body.

 

[ThinkHard]

Just about everyone I know here in NY keeps their phone locked. Lots of personal stuff on there. Plus you want to stick it to a criminal if they steal it -- ha - can't use it!

Fair, and totally possible. Most people you know keep it locked, most people I know don't. Who's to say which side of the fence sarai found herself on.

 

[Herat]

I don't think the theft of an ipad and a cell phone would be grounds for murder in a scenario where you then have to go on the lam to a foreign country.

Yeah. But murder of a foreigner (american) would.

Z's sister does mention him watching news broadcast about her disappearance and saying the word "CIA".

It brings the paranoid ideation / fixation on certain objects back into the picture for me. And he is acknowledged to have mental issues. Not intelligence issues, mental issues. If he is carrying this paranoid delusion that she is part of the CIA, then he thinks he may be fleeding continuous surveillance. Where does the US not want to go? Syria.

I have to think some family member is also complicit in the "escaping to Syria" scenario, whether for deception or in actual truth.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes, i did wonder yesterday if she either took his picture inadvertently, while he was 'doing private business', or.....if she herself 'had to go' and that prompted the rape scenario?

Yes I hear women squatting to urinate gets any man hot and bothered....they are like how hot is that I must have it

Just teasing.

 

[SandyP]

Yes, i did wonder yesterday if she either took his picture inadvertently, while he was 'doing private business', or.....if she herself 'had to go' and that prompted the rape scenario?

Where did this "SS communicating with Z via hand gestures" clue come from? Did someone was who was interviewed by LE say they saw them together?

 

[ThinkHard]

The presumption is that Sarai sent the text. Perhaps the perp knew Sarai and texted her sister after the fact in order to buy some time. Z is clearly implicated in some way via DNA. The strangeness of this case has always led me to believe that more than one individual was involved in the murder and the subsequent location of her body.

If his DNA is inFACT under her finger nails, that certainly does make it highly likely he was there when she died, even if he was just the one holding her down. Though I don't know if a believe this to be fact just yet, or just media saying it.

If the DNA that connects Ziya to the scene is more circumstantial, his hair fibers or skin cells found on her, stuff like that, it could just be because his DNA covered blanket was the one used, and if that is the case I am slightly less willing to believe he is directly involved.

But even if he is directly involved, I agree I don't think this was solo. It was either a random group think thing. Or someone recruited his involvement in some way.

 

[SANDOVAL]

Where did this "SS communicating with Z via hand gestures" clue come from? Did someone was who was interviewed by LE say they saw them together?

I have spent ages looking for that today. I thought Yashim had posted it, but i can't find it now. Does anyone recall that, or has it been deleted?

 

[Herat]

I think SS put herself in this dangerous situation due to overconfidence and the anticipation that she was leaving soon.

As a photographer of Urban Decay, she should have experienced the types of people that hang in railroad yards, near deserted areas with graffitti, where buildings are deserted and decaying. It's filthy. It's full of vagrant camping stuff, including trash, urine-soaked places, and human feces. It's ugly and unpleasant. She was undoubtedly always with someone else in NYC and probably warned about ever going solo in NYC.

So she ignores warnings and rules that she would have observed in NYC because of the nice weather and her upcoming plans, and overconfidence that she thinks she knows how to be a solo female in a foreign country.

It's as if she spent two weeks at Everest Base Camp and decided to just go on an Everest attempt by herself because it was nice weather and she was leaving the next day.

If you wouldn't do it at home, you shouldn't be doing it in a foreign country. Even if you've been there two weeks.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yeah. But murder of a foreigner (american) would.

Z's sister does mention him watching news broadcast about her disappearance and saying the word "CIA".

It brings the paranoid ideation / fixation on certain objects back into the picture for me. And he is acknowledged to have mental issues. Not intelligence issues, mental issues. If he is carrying this paranoid delusion that she is part of the CIA, then he thinks he may be fleeding continuous surveillance. Where does the US not want to go? Syria.

I have to think some family member is also complicit in the "escaping to Syria" scenario, whether for deception or in actual truth.

I'm not convinced his CIA comment means he killed her because of his own paranoid delusions. ALOT of I initial conspiracy theories in Turkish newspapers and even just street chatter was centered on believing she was either a spy, or drug mule. So I think his commentary could have been based more on what he was hearing around him as speculations about Sarai, and not neccasarily on him being paranoid about her being CIA as to the reason he killed her.

 

[Kluver13]

If his DNA is inFACT under her finger nails, that certainly does make it highly likely he was there when she died, even if he was just the one holding her down. Though I don't know if a believe this to be fact just yet, or just media saying it.

If the DNA that connects Ziya to the scene is more circumstantial, his hair fibers or skin cells found on her, stuff like that, it could just be because his DNA covered blanket was the one used, and if that is the case I am slightly less willing to believe he is directly involved.

But even if he is directly involved, I agree I don't think this was solo. It was either a random group think thing. Or someone recruited his involvement in some way.

I keep thinking about the recruitment scenario, this may explain his sophisticated flight from Istanbul with the assistance of a third party.

 

[Yashim]

Yashim,
at 4:20 pm, Istanbul would it have been still light or getting dark?

if she was alive at 4:20 PM

I think of little details like where did she eat?
How did she pay?
chat with a waiter. ?
use a bathroom
I am always confused over not having the time confirmed for pretty much anything....LOL...

I really don't know. The closet place for those activities would be the Gulhane Park, where we see her passing by the entrance on the footage. (On her fight)

All I can say that the time for sunset was 5:10 PM on January 21st.

So, it should be getting dark by then. Nobody in his right mind would go near those walls after 4:40 PM.

I would think she was planning to get back by 5 PM and grab something to eat in her room.

 

[Kluver13]

I'm not convinced his CIA comment means he killed her because of his own paranoid delusions. ALOT of I initial conspiracy theories in Turkish newspapers and even just street chatter was centered on believing she was either a spy, or drug mule. So I think his commentary could have been based more on what he was hearing around him as speculations about Sarai, and not neccasarily on him being paranoid about her being CIA as to the reason he killed her.

Many of the homeless (at least in the states) have significant mental disorders. A significant number are schizophrenic who commonly cite government conspiracies and thought control via CIA and FBI through advanced technologies; microchips etc...just another angle if the strangeness cited by "the family" is indeed a mental disorder of some kind.

 

[ThinkHard]

Many of the homeless (at least in the states) have significant mental disorders. A significant number are schizophrenic who commonly cite government conspiracies and thought control via CIA and FBI through advanced technologies; microchips etc...just another angle if the strangeness cited by "the family" is indeed a mental disorder of some kind.

Thanks for the info. I'm actually very aware of the connection between homelessness and mental disorders. I was just pointing out that I didn't believe that Ziya making that comment was neccasarily connected to his potential guiltiness.

 

[SANDOVAL]

OK. I will just make a clean post with no quotes.
There was a report yesterday about taking pictures of men at the walls, taking one of Z, being attacked, screaming, and the police looking for 8 people. That is story number 1.
Now several posters doubt that account entirely as being just newspaper stuff, but unsubstantiated(?)
-------------------------------
Story number 2:
She was indeed attacked unpremeditatedly but somehow started filming it, thus the device had to be stolen.

-----------------------------------
Story number 3.
the devices had to be handed to some unknown 'planner', to hide the fact that a visual record of an UNPREMEDITATED** EVENT TOOK PLACE???

---------------------------------------------
Story number 4.
It is being assumed that SS had her ipad and phone (which phone was it again?) with her.
-------------------------------------------
Story number 5.
How does anybody know, especially since they doubt the so-called account in that newspaper, that SS had them with her, rather than ......
--------------------------------------
Story number 6.
SS had them in her room, along with 'several hundred dollars in cash'(where was that detail from anyway?), her passport, her big green bag etc.
AND SOMEONE SURPRISED HER IN HER ROOM.
Was the door found locked from the inside?
Did it have a lock?
Was the door found unlocked?
-----------------------------------
So....story number 7 brings it back to something more 'planned' than an unfortunate attack at the walls...something that might warrant all the cloak n dagger stuff.
The redshirt lady, the drowned red shirt lady, the blurry video of the 'last walk' lady....

And there we are back at the beginning.

 

[pbj]

This is what I think transpired:

1. Too bad SS didn't keep her more androgynous look on the 21st, with her hair tucked into her unisex cap. She dress nicely since she had hoped to meet Taylan, and that is her on the video.

2. People had described her as adventurous. (Who among us would sleep on the couch of an instagram acquaintance in Amsterdam?) She was also trusting and naive. She thought, though , she was a good judge of character. Early on her minister described her as 9 going on 32 (or whatever her age is.) This trait alone led to her demise.

3. Perhaps Taylan had mentioned the night before about going to the walls and trying to get portraits of the people there.

4. She decided that since Taylan didn't show, today would be her last day to capture great photos.

5. She went to the walls and assumed it to be safe. It was daylight, and a traveled road. Perhaps she was on the other side of the road. Z appeared and seemed charming, safe, and cooperative. Perhaps he motioned kindly for her to come across the road. He may have motioned for her to come into his cave.She did not feel brave enough to do this, but she may have glanced in.

6. Z then pulls her in to rape her. He pulls down her pants. She is fighting back, but given her size ,she is not a challenge for him. But then she starts a loud piercing scream. He knew he must silence her. He has her on the ground, and his adrenaline and testosterone is flowing, and in his unstable fashion, he begins to pulverize her with the rock, he get carried away.

7. Later, Z moves the body away from his territory. Another scavenger comes upon the body and decides to remove the jewelry. He takes off her earrings and then looks for a wallet. He finds her driver's license and realizes she is the one that everyone is searching for. He drops the earrings and the license. He wants nothing to do with her, but now his fingerprints are on her.

8. Z flees to his homeland. While on the run, he sells her ipad and phone, which he took from her. In part for the value, but also because her last photos were of him. When he sells them, he asks for everything to be erased, which the buyer does, and it entails turning on the devices.

And that's the way I think it went down.