GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

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Why don't I shut up? What I meant is this: It's not so odd that Sarai made a greater mistake on her last day than in all the time before.

Poor Sarai. With so many risks she took before (cheap lodging, sidetrips to strangers) her instincts actually hadn't failed her. As things stand at the moment, those guys were good to her. It was someone she only met on that last day. And maybe a matter of trivial conflicts escalated badly.
 
Yashim said:
It should state the time it is sent and not received. There was a GSM operator in Turkey that enabled users to set the time for the text to be sent. But I doubt it caught on. Unlikely that SS's operator provided that feature.

And when the sending is not successful, it should ask the user whether it should try to send it again.

So, I believe the time stamp is the exact time it was sent.
Click to expand...


Thank you! This makes sense and clears up the crazy confusion. SO| the text was sent at 9:20 AM Istanbul time. which would have been 2:20 a.m. in NYC. It makes sense.

Of course, this would never have been an issue if media reports would simply have have been accurate in their wording from the beginning and stated "the last text was sent from her phone at 9:20 Istanbul time" instead of implying that she was 'talking' to her family in NYC at that time. and still alive:

CNN: "She last spoke to her family on January 21, the day before she was ticketed to fly back to New York City."

CNN"The day she last talked with her family, Sierra was planning to see the Galata Bridge and the Asian side of Istanbul, her husband said."

“The last time anyone had talked with her was on Monday at 9:20 a.m” http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/26/new-york-woman-missing-turkey/1867125/

"The last we heard from my wife was Monday morning on the 21st. She had spoken with her sister and the last thing she said was, 'I'm coming home tomorrow,' and she was excited and put a little smiley face at the end of her statement," said Steven Sierra in an interview with CNN earlier this week. http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/02/world/turkey-missing-woman

Clearly this was all texting coming from Istanbul at 9:20 pm, no verbal speech or recieving of a text at 9:20 in the morning. IMO
Wish the media would get the facts straight, please!
 
pbj said:
Just a few thoughts:

So she was killed in cave 1 by Z. He either leaves her there or hides the body nearby.

The other homeless find SS's body in the cave or the hidden spot. They know or think they know she was killed by Z, because they saw her with him, heard her screams, saw him dirty with scratch marks, or know he disappeared afterwards.

So they decide to frame Z. (They're actually framing the real killer). They move SS's body, so she will be more readily found. They either realize it's SS or found out due to her driver's license it is her. They leave the license out by her. They then either cover her with Z's blanket that he left behind or leave the blanket near her.

Their version of street justice.
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This is a really really good and much more user-friendly scenario.

But wouldn't they pull her pants up? Uh–huh, because the dead body had already gone stiff.

And they didn't talk because they didn't want to testify and get labeled as a rat in the homeless community and also not informing the police is also a crime.

But what if Z says "that's not where I put the body" . I doubt that they thought of that.

...
 
alabaster said:
Why don't I shut up? What I meant is this: It's not so odd that Sarai made a greater mistake on her last day than in all the time before.

Poor Sarai. With so many risks she took before (cheap lodging, sidetrips to strangers) her instincts actually hadn't failed her. As things stand at the moment, those guys were good to her. It was someone she only met on that last day. And maybe a matter of trivial conflicts escalated badly.
Click to expand...


Maybe she thought the risk she was taking was "getting mugged" not "getting murdered".

Frankly, when I say unsafe about a place in Istanbul, I hardly think of murder being one of the risks. Risk of murder is not a risk that one can take; its damage cannot be undone. Also, people just don't kill other people, especially tourists, because most tourists only stay for a short period of time, thus they are not quite likely to file complaints, press charges or follow trials, unless something very valuable is stolen or someone dies.

For a perp, a live local victim will be more of a threat than a live tourist victim.

That's probably why the last two rape cases (of two female tourists) went cold.

And that's why I was surprised that a tourist was killed by a homeless guy in the vicinity of where he lived. Homeless people don't want that kind of trouble.

...
 
Yashim said:
Maybe she thought the risk she was taking was "getting mugged" not "getting murdered".

Frankly, when I say unsafe about a place in Istanbul, I hardly think of murder being one of the risks. Risk of murder is not a risk that one can take; its damage cannot be undone. Also, people just don't kill other people, especially tourists, because most tourists only stay for a short period of time, thus they are not quite likely to file complaints, press charges or follow trials, unless something very valuable is stolen or someone dies.

For a perp, a live local victim will be more of a threat than a live tourist victim.

That's probably why the last two rape cases (of two female tourists) went cold.

And that's why I was surprised that a tourist was killed by a homeless guy in the vicinity of where he lived. Homeless people don't want that kind of trouble.

...
Click to expand...

That's why I'm not much concerned with oddities about jacket, jewellery, pants, electronics that won't fit this or that murder motive. It would be so unusual if he had planned to kill her for any of those things. He may have wanted to attack her for some of this or for other reasons, but the killing was the result of an unforseen escalation ... or the outcome of a bout of sheer madness.
 
I'm still not convinced Z is the sole perp but we'll see.

<modsnip>
No merchant wants to be known as buying stolen merchandise. I'm still curious how much you received for the necklace. (ETA I see that you sold it for 100ytl which translates to about $50 American Dollars) I still believe that if Z tried to sell her cheap jewelry he'd get dollars for it because it's basically junk jewelry and he's not selling his own Jewelry.

The same way if you tried to sell your own jewelry here in the states to a dealer you'd get more than if a homeless person walked in with a necklace and ring and tried to pawn it. He'd get maybe 1/4th of what you'd get.

Scenario I see, He tries to mug her for her laptop and phone. These are precious to her because they contain contacts and pictures. She tries to resist and takes off her earrings and offers them to him instead. He smacks them out of her hand (or maybe takes them and sees they are worthless) and then hits her with the brick.

He then takes the items that he knows he can sell, the electronics and the leather.


http://www.jewelrynewsletter.com/sellurgold.pdf
 
NewYork625 said:
The jacket doesn't make sense to me at all. I didn't think Z. sold anything, or intended to sell anything since the jewelry was left there. I wonder however, if he sold the jacket with her handbag (with the iphone and ipad wrapped inside) to the merchant. He may have told him what was inside... Unless the police have Z. clearly carrying the jacket loosely or slung over his shoulder."
Click to expand...
Some ponderings regarding the jewelry&#8230;

Maybe the jewelry being left behind is indicative of more than one perp.

The accomplice who had been portioned the jewelry abandoned his share after remorse had set in. thinking about it, the action of leaving valuable gold seems like an afterthought, it makes no sense to walk away empty-handed from a crime that has all the signs of a mugging.

Probably the perp who was portioned the jewelry could not bring himself to complete the act of stripping Sarai of her femininity, since for many people earrings symbolize this. Jewelry is so intimate, close to the skin, to the body. He couldn&#8217;t bring himself to touch her.

It&#8217;s also very likely that he was the only one who failed to lose his senses, and could still feel sympathy. He probably did not foresee that his buddies would actually kill a woman, and after the deed had been done, he returned to Sarai and left her earrings.

Perhaps this was his way of cleaning his hands of her blood.

Even the fact that she was covered with a blanket indicates a degree of sympathy and care. A cold-blooded killer wouldn&#8217;t stop in the heat of the moment to do something like this. She was dumped in a dark cave, which probably would make little difference to conceal her body with a blanket.

If there was a group of 2 or more, it&#8217;s logical to assume each took something. But rarely is equal distribution of stolen goods observed amongst thieves.

Maybe Ziya took the leather jacket, another quickly snatched up the iphone, another grabbed the ipad, and so on.

I'm disappointed in the media. Guess so many inconsistancies are to be expected with a case of this nature.
 
zarra30 said:
Thank you! This makes sense and clears up the crazy confusion. SO| the text was sent at 9:20 AM Istanbul time. which would have been 2:20 a.m. in NYC. It makes sense.

Of course, this would never have been an issue if media reports would simply have have been accurate in their wording from the beginning and stated "the last text was sent from her phone at 9:20 Istanbul time" instead of implying that she was 'talking' to her family in NYC at that time. and still alive:

CNN: "She last spoke to her family on January 21, the day before she was ticketed to fly back to New York City."

CNN"The day she last talked with her family, Sierra was planning to see the Galata Bridge and the Asian side of Istanbul, her husband said."

“The last time anyone had talked with her was on Monday at 9:20 a.m” http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/26/new-york-woman-missing-turkey/1867125/

"The last we heard from my wife was Monday morning on the 21st. She had spoken with her sister and the last thing she said was, 'I'm coming home tomorrow,' and she was excited and put a little smiley face at the end of her statement," said Steven Sierra in an interview with CNN earlier this week. http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/02/world/turkey-missing-woman

Clearly this was all texting coming from Istanbul at 9:20 pm, no verbal speech or recieving of a text at 9:20 in the morning. IMO
Wish the media would get the facts straight, please!
Click to expand...

I think your confused, the phone receiving the message would say the time it was sent, but it would state this time based on the receiving phones local time, not the sending phones local time. So if her family is saying they received the text at 9:20 am they are referring to 9:20 am NY time. If this in fact the time the message is recorded being received, Sarai phone would show an outgoing message at 4:20 pm.

If she sent the message at 9:20 am Istanbul time Sarai's phone would show an outgoing message of 9:20am, but her sisters phone would show receiving the message on her end at 2:20am ny time.
 
alabaster said:
That's why I'm not much concerned with oddities about jacket, jewellery, pants, electronics that won't fit this or that murder motive. It would be so unusual if he had planned to kill her for any of those things. He may have wanted to attack her for some of this or for other reasons, but the killing was the result of an unforseen escalation ... or the outcome of a bout of sheer madness.
Click to expand...

Even if it wasnt part of the motive, the choices in what the perp took and what he left I think are interesting.
 
ThinkHard said:
I think your confused, the phone receiving the message would say the time it was sent, but it would state this time based on the receiving phones local time, not the sending phones local time. So if her family is saying they received the text at 9:20 am they are referring to 9:20 am NY time. If this in fact the time the message is recorded being received, Sarai phone would show an outgoing message at 4:20 pm.

If she sent the message at 9:20 am Istanbul time Sarai's phone would show an outgoing message of 9:20am, but her sisters phone would show receiving the message on her end at 2:20am ny time.
Click to expand...

Why is she telling her sister what she plans to do that day at 4:20 pm? More likely it was sent at 9:20 am Istanbul time.
 
ThinkHard said:
First of all chewy, I do not know what type or weight sarai chains were, only that they were described as 14k, so no I don't know my broken chain and hers were the same, only that they were likely made of the same composition. Secondly because I lived in Istanbul for a year, I don't think its all that surprising. I was speaking yesterday from experience and trying to explain to you how it worked without bringing in my personal experience, but you for whatever reason refused to believe anything I said. You claimed to jump all over me because you didn't want mis information about gold to be spoken, but it was you who was saying false things about gold as it applies to Turkey.

Now can we please put the issue to bed because your personal attacks and snarky comments are not what solving this case is about.
Click to expand...

And it is actually 'bickering off-topic'' and against the rules of the forum, as well as rude.
 
SophieRose said:
Why is she telling her sister what she plans to do that day at 4:20 pm? More likely it was sent at 9:20 am Istanbul time.
Click to expand...

It never made sense to me either. I think the only thing they heard from her on the day of the 21st was the text at the unconfirmed time saying "I'm coming home tomorrow. Yay!"

I think telling her family what she was doing that day was from a conversation on the 20th.

Hey I'm not saying I know what the real time her message was sent, I'm just saying the IF her sisters time stamp for receiving the text message WAS in fact 9:20 am, it would have been receive at 9:20 am NY time. (Maybe her family did the math from the actual time stamp on the phone and said 9:20 am because that's what time sarai would have had to send it from Istanbul, based on the time is was timed on the received text).

The point is we just really don't know if the 9:20 time was in reference to ny, or Istanbul .... However knowing one way or the other as fact would certainly be nice.
 
IMO, if she really was killed by a random homeless person how sad that so much of her personal affairs had to surface.

But it may give some degree of credibility to,those who say it is dangerous for women to travel alone, unfortunately.
 
Are they saying that is Z's "home" in the walls? I wonder if they took DNA from there, too.

I agree the video looks like she is swinging a jacket in her right hand
 
Chewy said:
I'm still not convinced Z is the sole perp but we'll see.

<modsnip>
No merchant wants to be known as buying stolen merchandise. I'm still curious how much you received for the necklace. (ETA I see that you sold it for 100ytl which translates to about $50 American Dollars) I still believe that if Z tried to sell her cheap jewelry he'd get dollars for it because it's basically junk jewelry and he's not selling his own Jewelry.

The same way if you tried to sell your own jewelry here in the states to a dealer you'd get more than if a homeless person walked in with a necklace and ring and tried to pawn it. He'd get maybe 1/4th of what you'd get.

Scenario I see, He tries to mug her for her laptop and phone. These are precious to her because they contain contacts and pictures. She tries to resist and takes off her earrings and offers them to him instead. He smacks them out of her hand (or maybe takes them and sees they are worthless) and then hits her with the brick.

He then takes the items that he knows he can sell, the electronics and the leather.


http://www.jewelrynewsletter.com/sellurgold.pdf
Click to expand...

Can't you please stop, please just let it go.

I know how scrap gold is bought and sold, I know how this is done in the US and I know how this is done in Turkey. I do not need you to site an outdated article.

Yes if the chain I had sold was 24k vs 14 k would I have gotten more money for the same weight chain, OF COURSE. But you still get money for 14k and its more then just pennies. 100 liras is closer to 60 US dollars FYI.

You said yourself you have never been to Turkey, so please stop refuting a topic you can not speak to have personal experience with in a country you have never been to. It's really that simple.

I don't want to fight with you, please stop coming at me.
 
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