GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[alabaster]

I'm not sure what you mean about the 911 sensibilities. But I doubt that 911 would have anything to do with the motivations.
…

What I meant is: 9/11 was a historical shock to New Yorkers so Sarai might have expected her NY friends to feel some latent discomfort, however small and irrational, towards mosques and bazars from the 'Islamic world' and to react with more affinity towards 'western' Byzantine ruins and graffiti.

It's really a question. I am asking if such a reaction would be likely or even thinkable in a youngish middle-class NY crowd or not. It's the way I do my sleuthing, if you will. I have seen your answer.

She did seem to do a lot of work with the central focus being a long structure, so if the walls went on for a while she may have liked the way it looked in keeping with her theme.

...

Yes, that kind of structure could as well be the reason for her choice.

 

[alabaster]

ThinkHard & NewYork 625,

I tried to explain in my previous comment. I can't seem to say it better, so if it still shouldn't make sense, I'm probably way off mark and will do some re-thinking ...

 

[Chewy]

Believe it or not there is not anti Islamic sentiment in NYC. I have talked to people many times about this, in general people outside NYC are more hostile towards Muslims and Islam than NYers are. This is because of the diversity in this city and the way we constantly interact and know Muslims. They are our neighbors and friends, not the "other."

 

[NewYork625]

ThinkHard & NewYork 625,

I tried to explain in my previous comment. I can't seem to say it better, so if it still shouldn't make sense, I'm probably way off mark and will do some re-thinking ...

I revised (added to) my comment after realizing what you meant by "oriental". We tend to think of oriental as referring to the far east rather than the mideast.

 

[ThinkHard]

I was going to mention the "evil eye" before but I thought it would get misconstrued. Those are the ones that I have seen on 14karat.

I was talking to my husband about this last night and the example he gave by way of comparison is the difference between someone wearing a Timex and someone wearing a Rolex. He said that even though the Timex is "worth something" unloading it could be more trouble than it's worth. The electronics are a no brainer.

That logic may be well and good for the US, but is not really the same for Turkey. Electronics would be harder to sell, because electronics that can be used as a mobile device in turkey must be registered, it would be extremely difficult in Turkey to yield a decent profit off selling these even on the black market for this very reason. The path would be too traceable, this was explained in MUCH better detail by our Turkish friends.
Gold on the other hand would absolutely be worth someone's time, and virtually untraceable. (Evil eyes are not the only jewelry containing 14k, that was just one example). Also though gold is important in Turkish culture it is more common for Turks to purchase 24k cold coins, think of them as savings bounds, then to wear jewelry out of 24k. The worn jewelry by most women you see in Turkey is 14k, maybe 18k. But you just don't see women in Turkey out and about wearing 22k and 24k jewelry the way it is the norm for Indian women to do so. I hope this makes sense.

 

[NewYork625]

Believe it or not there is not anti Islamic sentiment in NYC. I have talked to people many times about this, in general people outside NYC are more hostile towards Muslims and Islam than NYers are. This is because of the diversity in this city and the way we constantly interact and know Muslims. They are our neighbors and friends, not the "other."

This is true. New Yorkers in general are angry with the terrorists, not the Muslim people.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is true. New Yorkers in general are angry with the terrorists, not the Muslim people.

Thank goodness at least one enclave of the US population can differentiate the two

 

[alabaster]

Believe it or not there is not anti Islamic sentiment in NYC. I have talked to people many times about this, in general people outside NYC are more hostile towards Muslims and Islam than NYers are. This is because of the diversity in this city and the way we constantly interact and know Muslims. They are our neighbors and friends, not the "other."

Thanks, you've got my question right. Seems I was dead wrong. No reason not to believe you. If nobody thinks different, I'd put this to rest ...

 

[Herat]

. Electronics would be harder to sell, because electronics that can be used as a mobile device in turkey must be registered, it would be extremely difficult in Turkey to yield a decent profit off selling these even on the black market for this very reason. The path would be too traceable, this was explained in MUCH better detail by our Turkish friends.
.

alpmighty did a comprehensive and exhaustive review of buying and selling electronics in Turkey. It is different than in Europe and the US. The value is in breaking them down for the components, not in selling them for re-use.

Where is alpmighty? He had really neutral and educated comments and I miss his input very much.

Come back- it's not solved. It's not over.

 

[writer411]

Glad to see the CIA are finally publicizing their investigations in the newspaper. Whoevers feeding this stuff to the media doesnt think too highly of the ppl observing this case looking for answers.

 

[SANDOVAL]

New article on Z. It's suppose to be in English, but looks like they used Google translater.

http://www.habermonitor.com/en/haber/detay/let39s-go-find-before-the-cia/70017/

Thank you....really interesting,
but the 'translation' is surreal, I cannot piece enough together to get more than a very vague idea....
Please can someone do a better job?
(eg. ''brother, Zia T. 's Hatay reached after going to the police said that the person who is using the mobile phone. That person to the police Zia T. 's going on the right foot Reyhanlı'ya said. '???)
Who is using what phone?

 

[writer411]

I didn't say 14 karat gold and again, I think you are mistaken.


A gold necklace would sell for its WEIGHT IN GOLD. That is what I wrote. Essentially the weight of a necklace and the weight of the ring would be a few dollars at best.

I'd like a TURKISH poster to correct me if I am wrong.


14 karat gold is garbage in Turkey and most other parts of the world in that region.

It may be used for cheap jewelry. So the fact that this woman had a necklace or ring on is not enough for someone to want to take them to sell them.

The earrings perhaps had diamonds and the person considered those and then dropped them back down.

And yes btw the logic about the malleability of 24 karat gold is well understood. Take a look around the world and you will see that women from the US usually wear cheaper gold if they are "ordinary people."

In this part of the world most women would want 22 or 24 (obviously not total) karat gold. I don't think they'd even consider wearing 14 karat gold. MAYBE 18 karat.

I think both of you are mistaken assuming every criminal in the world is a chain snatcher who cares about gold. The fact is that some ppl dont know a thing about gold and jewelry and wouldnt care a thing about a modest gold chain and earrings. And, in Islam, men dont wear gold, its forbidden per their holy book, so unless killer had a woman in his life for whom he bought gold, hence he might have knowledge of it, I cant see him going from bluggeoining a woman who just got done belting out blood-curdling screams and scratching and possibly injuring him to turning is thoughts immediately to the current gold boom and evaluating whether he can hawk jewelry based on its markings, which he couldnt see without a monacle anyway.

 

[wpoe]

No new information here, but good background on Z:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/su...other.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41668&NewsCatID=341

 

[SANDOVAL]

I read that more surveillance cameras had been installed around the city at some point.
Are these continuously monitored for traffic accidents?
I have been told here that the railway lines would also have surveillance cameras.
My point being, are there no surveillance cameras in the murder area?
Or, was it in fact captured on video, but it has not been made public?
Or, if there are surveillance cameras, and it was NOT captured on video, that would be why they have (definitely) suggested the murder may have taken place somewhere else.

Any ideas?

 

[Chewy]

I think both of you are mistaken assuming every criminal in the world is a chain snatcher who cares about gold. The fact is that some ppl dont know a thing about gold and jewelry and wouldnt care a thing about a modest gold chain and earrings. And, in Islam, men dont wear gold, its forbidden per their holy book, so unless killer had a woman in his life for whom he bought gold, hence he might have knowledge of it, I cant see him going from bluggeoining a woman who just got done belting out blood-curdling screams and scratching and possibly injuring him to turning is thoughts immediately to the current gold boom and evaluating whether he can hawk jewelry based on its markings, which he couldnt see without a monacle anyway.

um......that's what I've been saying the entire thread.....:waitasec:

 

[KivaSupporter]

Ziya’s father passed away when he was 10. He never attended school for any length of time.

He has been living on the streets since he was 11, according to Habertürk’s report, and once served seven years in prison.

He reportedly told his family that he was fatally ill with a few months left to live, but also told a close friend that he was really headed for Iran, which he’ll reach after passing through Syria.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/reports-reveal-profile-of-prime-sierra-murder-suspect.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41655&NewsCatID=341

 

[SANDOVAL]

Ziya’s father passed away when he was 10. He never attended school for any length of time.

He has been living on the streets since he was 11, according to Habertürk’s report, and once served seven years in prison.

He reportedly told his family that he was fatally ill with a few months left to live, but also told a close friend that he was really headed for Iran, which he’ll reach after passing through Syria.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/reports-reveal-profile-of-prime-sierra-murder-suspect.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41655&NewsCatID=341

Iran??
Is the CIA really involved?
I'm wondering how a homeless trash collector could be 'involved' in international shenanigans.

 

[Blackydress]

Reading all the discussions here about selling gold vs. electronics, I wonder if you guys read this article about what Z's sister and brother said. If it was given before I apologize for this.
http://www.haberler.com/ozel-haber-sarai-sierra-nin-katil-zanlisi-olarak-4334453-haberi/
His sister said that : "When he came to visit me, we were watching this on TV. he reacted. He told me 'How can do this, this is really bad for Turkey. What's going to happen if they took the lost devices. Idiots, this can not be used or sold in Turkey. Why would they take it? I think this woman is an agent or CIA. I think they sent her to Turkey."
What does this tell us? Did Z take the devices and discovered he can not sell them? Or he knew already?

 

[Blackydress]

Reading all the discussions here about selling gold vs. electronics, I wonder if you guys read this article about what Z's sister and brother said. If it was given before I apologize for this.
http://www.haberler.com/ozel-haber-s...334453-haberi/
His sister said that : "When he came to visit me, we were watching this on TV. he reacted. He told me 'How can do this, this is really bad for Turkey. What's going to happen if they took the lost devices. Idiots, this can not be used or sold in Turkey. Why would they take it? I think this woman is an agent or CIA. I think they sent her to Turkey."
What does this tell us? Did Z take the devices and discovered he can not sell them? Or he knew already?

 

[Blackydress]

Here is the latest news in English:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/su...other.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41668&NewsCatID=341
DHA and Radikal give a more detailed account. A quick translation: Ziya's friend Zafer Ozden said Z. told him 'A lot of things happened in Istanbul. They will blame me. I escaped because they will lay the blame on me. I will go to Syria or to Iran'. He had a small bag, he took his bag and walked towards the garage. I know him from his childhood, he is not somebody to kill another person. He can not even cut a chicken. But I would not know what he would do if he lost himself, if he is thinner addicted. He comes her every year for 1-2 days. He was in prison for 3-5 months for stealing. He had to place to go. I did not see any scars or scratch traces on his face".