TX - 10 deceased as a result of crowd surge at Astroworld festival, Houston, 5 Nov 2021

[10ofRods]

HOW DID 14 YEAR OLDS GET TICKETS AT THESE PRICES????

Their parents, of course.

And I read a comment from someone who took his 10-year-old to that concert - so double it.

No wonder so many people rushed the gates, they must have felt like they were really getting that Black Friday special deal - on this "concert."

 

[Luna20]

HOW DID 14 YEAR OLDS GET TICKETS AT THESE PRICES????

A 10 year old was there!

 

[Gardenista]

Astroworld had a plan for mass casualty events. It's unclear whether promoters followed it

 

[LaborDayRN]

HOW DID 14 YEAR OLDS GET TICKETS AT THESE PRICES????

I'm guessing many of the people rushing (storming) the gates didn't have tickets. I'm not saying this young man did that. Maybe it was a gift from a family member.

 

[moonriverfarm]

Thank you. There was simply not enough security. The crowd was far too large (50k-100k) for the amount of combined police/private security (700-1300).
Our older son as well as another man we spoke to the next day didn’t see any problems not even the ambulance - the crowd was huge. The learned of problems only once they were home.

What did your kids pay for these tickets?

 

[Luna20]

Two JMO observations.
Who lets kids as young as 12 go to one of these festivals?
And these Jenner women have some issues picking men.
JMO JMO

The youngest reported was a 10 year old. It just points to the desensitized culture we live in.

Id like to know from a psychological perspective what their men picking habits allude to (nothing to do with color). Most of them have serious issues, impulse control and sketchy morals.

 

[Luna20]

“Kendall Jenner caught backlash on social media for changing the caption of a photo she posted while attending the Astroworld Festival on Friday where eight people died.


The 26-year-old originally uploaded a photo of herself standing behind Travis Scott's massive stage sipping a drink with the caption, "Will you be at the mountain?"

Then, after the tragedy on Friday night, Jenner updated the caption and simply put a mountain top emoji in reference to the rapper's stage called Utopia Mountain.


Kendall Jenner slammed on Instagram for changing Astroworld post

 

[10ofRods]

yes, young people waiting for hours, drinking, taking drugs getting amped up, riot mentality, group thought takes over.
It's usually harmless fun to dance but how crowded it was it's dangerous. I avoid crowds for these exact reasons. It only takes a few seconds for a crush to start.

The goal at a Travis Scott concert is to crowd the stage, not to dance. He encourages it and literally thousands upon thousands of mostly kids go to his concerts to do this. There are festivals that discourage this - and heavy metal bands will usually stop playing and direct the crowd to follow mandates given by security (which is also heavy).

These deaths (and all the fainting and cardiac arrest) were caused by crush factors - everyone standing up with more than 9 people per square yard. At 4 people per square yard, you're usually just barely able to turn around, raise and lower your arms. At 9 people per square yard, crowds become so backed that no one can move anywhere and if your arms are up - they stay up. Shorter people will not be able to touch the ground with their feed. It's a terrible feeling (well, it is for me), but some kids really like the rush of it. Like a giant roller coaster made up of entirely. people.

The following description of crowd crush by someone who has researched it is not easy to read and not for everyone. If you are tender-hearted or easily made anxious by information about crowd crush/accidental deaths, do not read this.

Spoiler

(author's name withheld by request)
First I'll say these are not stampedes, but some background info is needed. IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER NOT READING THIS.

Basically when people start to move in very high density crowds, each individual physically doesn't have enough space around them to behave like a normal person who acts based on decisions anymore, but rather the entire crowd starts moving like a fluid, forced forward by the pressure of the people walking forwards behind them. We're talking densities of 5+ people per square meter (you can roughly equate 4 people per square meter to being in a tightly packed crowd but still being able to move 360 degrees, just brushing up on people on all 4 sides. At about 5-6 people/meter^2 you start to lose that freedom of movement). The crowd starts to literally behave by the laws of fluid dynamics, and can experience shockwaves that ripple up and back through the mass of people when a push comes from any given direction... anyone who's been in a moshpit knows what I'm talking about.

These crowd densities aren't dangerous in themselves until you start reaching more than 8+ people/meter2 , however starting at about 5-6 they become extremely risky to facilitate movement in for two major reasons: 1) the risk of hitting a choke point and 2) the risk of someone falling over.

The first one results in what is called 'crowd crush'. This is where you have an extremely large and high density crowd, typical for those seen at events like the Hajj, moving in one direction in a confined space. This can be as wide as a city block or as narrow as a hallway. The crowd will be moving in its desired direction, but as soon as it hits a choke point, such as a blocked entrance, a sharp turn, a single open doorway, or even another high density crowd coming from the opposite direction, the people at the front face a serious problem. They are not merely walking anymore, they are being carried in the crowd fluid and could not stop if they tried (and would probably fall over). Survivors of crushes have described the experience like you're being carried by a river of people. The people at the very front of the crowd (who are not at dangerous densities) will make it through the choke point, unless it's a blocked entrance of course, but the high density crowd inevitably follows, carried by force. If the choke point is too narrow for the entire crowd to fit through, people literally just plug it up and are unable to squeeze through the gap anymore, and are being evermore crushed by the force of people behind them. For a morbid but good example of this, watch the video of the Station Nightclub fire that happened in 2001 2003 (NSFW/NSFL). For those who don't want to watch, basically what happened is a fire broke out in a nightclub, and nobody really bothered to run for the emergency exits (plus some other things but another post entirely) but instead all pushed for the front door. When the crowd density trying to leave the club out of the double doors became too great, the people got stuck and knocked over in the doorway, and bodies kept piling on top of more bodies from the flow of people behind until there was a helpless 6ft high pile of people with their heads and arms sticking out the front door packed too tightly for anyone on the outside to wedge them free.

Here's the (messed) up part though: people do not die from being 'trampled' as if everyone is wildly running around and stepping on each other, in fact there's literally no way that's possible because people couldn't be running around in high density crowds even if they wanted to. What they die from is compressive asphyxiation (yes, suffocation by crushing) from the sheer force of all of the weight of bodies being stacked on top of them. In the worst of choke points, a completely blocked exit, people can be crushed standing up because they breathe out and simply cannot overcome the pressure of all of the people around them to breathe back in. That happens at densities of about 12+ p/sqm. 'Crowd pressure' has been known to collapse walls, bend steel guard rails, and of course kill a ---load of people.

 

[Luna20]

Astroworld 2021: Where investigators are currently focusing following tragedy during Travis Scott show

 

[IceIce9]

Did the security guards have radios? I have worked as an EMT at large events including concerts and sporting events. Every member of the medical staff as well as all security members carry radios. At the very first inkling of any type of trouble (a spectator falling down, passing out, a fight, an unruly drunk, someone experiencing a mental episode, someone exhibiting anger issues, so on and so forth) we are to call alert immediately on the radio, stating issue and exact location. No exceptions!

They would much rather have us report a minor incident that turns out to be nothing than fail to report something that could lead to a bigger incident.

One of the events I worked every year had between 250,000 and 300,000 in attendance, a very large event. We never had any major incidents.

 

[10ofRods]

"Houston Police say they had 76 police officers at Astroworld Music Festival. Plus 500 security staff. So why did the concert continue for 37 minutes after a mass casualty event was declared? After people were crushed?"

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1457693577824411653

From what I can tell by watching quite a few videos from that night (there are still more to watch, sadly)...police officers were mostly around the perimeter of the venue and not on the actual "concert floor." I saw two uniformed policemen trying to get to the stage - but no one could get to the stage. The ambulances could barely creep into the situation and even then, some people had to climb out of the crowd onto the ambulances for there to be even inches of space to use for the ambulance. There were no LE officers in the ambulances that I could see.

The people chanted to stop the concert, at least two people from the very front of the crowd made it onto the stage and begged stagehands to stop the show (and one musician was clearly implored) but they weren't permitted to get close enough to Travis to say anything to him - nor would he have listened, IMO.

There are many accounts all over the internet from survivors who say their main goal, at any Astroworld Festival is to rush the stage/get as close to the stage as possible. In this event, even the side areas of the stage were totally compressed with people.

Since police were mostly in the back (at the gates, trying to keep thousands more people from coming in, which is what was happening), it was only regular security (I didn't see much) near the stage. People were crushed against the metal barriers near the stage (non-fatally, it seems, but painfully and some were injured). People were crushed while standing up (by the bodies around them) and went into cardiac arrest. Others suffered postural asphyxiation by being crushed while their arms were in the air (which TS repeatedly asked them to do - raise their arms). He also tweeted to people outside the venue to rush the VIP gate, which they did. No where was safe...

Security was overwhelmed completely. There were apparently only 2-3 medics.

 

[happyday]

I've been on TikTok today (trying to learn how it works tbh!) and there are videos of Adele performing to massive crowds in more than one show and stopping when she sees someone in trouble. In one she is clearly upset about someone's wellbeing. Now, she has quieter crowds of course, but she was performing to a crowd in darkness and could still see enough to stop things.

I’ve been trying to give him benefit of the doubt that he wasn’t aware of just how bad things were, but 40 minutes to keep singing!? That’s just a long time not to become aware and stop.

 

[happyday]

Travis Scott, Drake sued over Astroworld concert incident

Texas attorney Thomas J. Henry filed a lawsuit Sunday against Travis Scott, whose real name is Jacques Bermon Webster, as well as Drake, whose real name is Aubrey Drake Graham. The suit also names Live Nation and NRG Stadium.

The suit is being filed on behalf of concert attendee Kristian Paredes, 23, from Austin, Texas. Paredes reportedly filed the complaint seeking more than $1 million in damages after both rappers allegedly "incited the crowd" and left him injured.

___

A lawsuit filed against rapper Travis Scott over the incident Friday night alleges Scott "encouraged" the culture that led to the incident in a May tweet.

"NAW AND WE STILL SNEAKING THE WILD ONES IN," Scott said in a since-deleted tweet in response to fans who were angry the show had quickly sold old.

A lawsuit filed on behalf of concertgoer Manuel Souza alleges the tweet "recklessly encouraged fans to breach the barriers and otherwise actively encouraged a culture of violence."

Travis Scott 'encouraged culture of violence' in May tweet, complaint alleges

Just pointing out that this lawyer is a TV lawyer—ambulance chaser type. Not surprised he was the first to file! But oh my goodness, there are going to be a BAZILLION lawsuits from this! I can’t even imagine how many. TS and Live Nation better get ready. It’s going to be a lot. (Deserved IMO)

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

It seems very soon to be posting his picture online. Surely they could wait a few days to find out if anyone will be reporting him missing.

The way news outlets were posting that postmortem AND how it was plastered all over Twitter seemed really offensive. I get that they were trying to identify everyone as fast as possible but there was really no thought or respect for his loved ones when that PM was posted. A physical descriptor of his appearance alone - being that he was roughly 500lbs and quite tall - should have been enough.

RIP, Axel. This should never have happened.

 

[CocoChanel]

Once the security gates had been egregiously breached early in the afternoon on the day of the show, all bets were off as far as the venue being able to maintain a safe environment for the concert to take place IMHO. This was 7 hours before the worst events unfolded.

If that had happened at the World Series also in Houston, just a few days before this concert, I believe the WS would have immediately been shut down for fans to attend.

At that point at the Astroworld venue, there was no way to insure that attendees had been screened for weapons prior to entering. It was a free-for-all from that moment on…..essentially a recipe for disaster.


From ABC local affiliate KTRK:
Stampede at Astroworld fest entry unfolds in front of ABC13 crew

https://twitter.com/mycahabc13/status/1456704812456845316?s=21

From CBS local affiliate KHOU:

And this from Rolling Stone, which is a fairly balanced view from the experts in entertainment/safety/crowd control:
'They Weren't Prepared': Experts Point to Missed Warning Signs at Astroworld


EACH of the 8 lives lost that night were precious and valuable. ALL of the injured and otherwise traumatized witnesses to this tragedy will be affected forever by what they saw and experienced. THAT is an unspeakable high price for this calamity. And it could have even been worse if other types of contraband had been a factor in what transpired. This is my opinion.

 

[ItalyReader]

What did your kids pay for these tickets?

Do you mean what did we pay?!
We splurged on VIP tickets thinking it might be safer. It was their birthday present for the year. You can look the original prices up online, they are expensive but not the rumored thousands per ticket which are the scalpers’ prices.

 

[happyday]

Once the security gates had been egregiously breached early in the afternoon on the day of the show, all bets were off as far as the venue being able to maintain a safe environment for the concert to take place IMHO. This was 7 hours before the worst events unfolded after 9 pm.

If that had happened at the World Series also in Houston, just a few days before this concert, I believe the WS would have immediately been shut down for fans to attend.

At that point at the Astroworld venue, there was no way to insure that attendees had been screened for weapons prior to entering. It was a free-for-all from that moment on…..essentially a recipe for disaster.


From ABC local affiliate KTRK:
Stampede at Astroworld fest entry unfolds in front of ABC13 crew

https://twitter.com/mycahabc13/status/1456704812456845316?s=21

From CBS local affiliate KHOU:

And this from Rolling Stone, which is a fairly balanced view from the experts in entertainment/safety/crowd control:
'They Weren't Prepared': Experts Point to Missed Warning Signs at Astroworld


EACH of the 8 lives lost that night were precious and valuable. ALL of the injured and otherwise traumatized witnesses to this tragedy will be affected forever by what they saw and experienced. THAT is an unspeakable high price for this calamity. And it could have even been worse if other types of contraband had been a factor in what transpired. This is my opinion.

Yes!!! Once people were just running past security and metal detectors, all bets were off. It should have been shut down at that point. MOO

 

[Luna20]

He stopped a concert once because someone tried to take his shoe. Then he spit on the fan.

“Travis Scott once stopped a show and repeatedly ordered the crowd to “f–k” up a fan who tried to take one of his shoes, according to footage going viral after eight people died at his Texas Astroworldfestival.

Footage from the Swiss gig shows Scott, 30, leaping into the crowd — then pointing to a young-looking fan nearby after stumbling to get up.

“Come here, ,” he shouts through his microphone, with the music stopping as he accuses the fan of trying to “take my shoe.”

“Get that motherf—er, get him!” he shouts, telling other fans, “F–k him up! F–k him up! F–k him up!” Even as the crowd turns on the fan, Scott appears to make clear his threat is serious — again shouting, “F–k him up! F–k him up! F–k him up!”

The “Sicko Mode” star then appears to spit at the fan after he manages to escape the crowd and walk off. “F–k his *advertiser censored* up!” Scott again shouts — throwing his mic after the fan as he walks away.


Video of Travis Scott spitting at fan goes viral after Astroworld

 

[Arkay]

These deaths (and all the fainting and cardiac arrest) were caused by crush factors - everyone standing up with more than 9 people per square yard. At 4 people per square yard, you're usually just barely able to turn around, raise and lower your arms. At 9 people per square yard, crowds become so backed that no one can move anywhere and if your arms are up - they stay up. Shorter people will not be able to touch the ground with their feed. It's a terrible feeling (well, it is for me), but some kids really like the rush of it. Like a giant roller coaster made up of entirely. people.

I feel this, as a five-foot tall woman who is always up to everyone’s armpits in a crowd. That factored into my earlier post about being caught in a crush at Great Adventure with my then 2-year old; it was that much harder to hold my daughter high enough to keep her safe.

That said, in my 64 years of being a native New Yorker, I went (only once) to Times Square on New Year’s Eve. It was before 9/11, so security procedures were different than now. This is a crowd of a literal million people, all straining to look at the ball, but I did not feel unsafe. Uncomfortable and freezing but not unsafe. When I desperately needed the bathroom after waiting a few hours, we went into a restaurant and came right back out but had lost our place and had to walk many blocks away to rejoin the crowd. But no surges, no trampling. But definitely no room to even turn around or move my arms.

All it would’ve taken is a surge and God only knows what then. But the atmosphere there is excited (especially for tourists), not crazy.

 

[Herat]

Daily Mail is reporting TS show in Las Vegas on Satuday has been cancelled.