TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

[BigCityAccountant]

10 identified... 4 adults, 6 children.

A couple who had been married for 25 years, Bryan and Karla Holcombe, were among those killed in the shooting.

Crystal Champion Holcombe, 36, was killed alongside three of her children, Megan, Emily and Greg, and her in-laws, Bryan and Karla Holcombe, at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs.

Holcombe was 8-months pregnant, her cousin, Nick Uhlig, told The Associated Press. Her husband, John, survived the shooting. Their two other children, including a 3-year-old boy, were wounded and are in critical condition, Uhlig told the San Antonio Express-News.

Joann Ward, 30, and her daughters, Brooke Ward, 5, and Emily Garza, 7, were fatally shot at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, their family told the Dallas Morning News. Ward’s son, Ryland Ward, 5, was shot four times and underwent surgery Sunday. It is not known if he will survive. Another daughter, Rhianna Garza, was not shot.

Annabelle Renee Pomeroy, the 14-year-old daughter of Pastor Frank Pomeroy and his wife, Sherri Newman Pomeroy, was among those killed in the shooting at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, the pastor told ABC News.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/suthe...-shooting-victims-list-names-photos-pictures/

I'm sick...just sick...the coward.

 

[Inthedetails]

This guy had it all
dv, animal abuse..

Snipped by me.

In another sense, he did have it all.

He comes from what at first look seems like a stable family. At least, they are reported to have a nice home and have offered support for their son as he lives on their land. He had the opportunity to make a military career for himself, has had romantic/family relationships, which says he's not totally unhinged. Yet, he was unhinged. The DV conviction and military discharge are HUGE signs that things weren't going well for him, but he still was in a position to turn his life around. It's not like he didn't have examples or a foundation to stand on.

But he didn't turn his life around. He didn't even glide through at the same mediocre level. Instead, he came completely unglued and went for the lowest level of human behavior.

What happened?!?

We're still missing a big chunk of info about this guy.

jmopinion

 

[Stunned]

Waiting for the time when enough will finally be enough. Don't think I'll live that long.

 

[bluesneakers]

Snipped by me.

In another sense, he did have it all.

He comes from what at first look seems like a stable family. At least, they are reported to have a nice home and have offered support for their son as he lives on their land. He had the opportunity to make a military career for himself, has had romantic/family relationships, which says he's not totally unhinged. Yet, he was unhinged. The DV conviction and military discharge are HUGE signs that things weren't going well for him, but he still was in a position to turn his life around. It's not like he didn't have examples or a foundation to stand on.

But he didn't turn his life around. He didn't even glide through at the same mediocre level. Instead, he came completely unglued and went for the lowest level of human behavior.

What happened?!?

We're still missing a big chunk of info about this guy.

jmopinion

Substance abuse.

In the aftermath of a mass shooting, survivors, the community, and policymakers try to understand whether the shooting could have been prevented. In pursuit of this goal, public health experts that study mass shootings and other acts of mass violence have identified certain dangerous behaviors that can serve as warning signs that an individual is a risk to themselves or others.

These “red flags” include, but are not limited to recent acts, attempted acts, or threats of violence towards oneself or others; a violation of a protective order; or evidence of ongoing substance abuse.

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

 

[Inthedetails]

Substance abuse.


https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

Hmm....I'm thinking you are right.

If that is the case, the next question is: prescription or illegal or both?


jmo

 

[bluesneakers]

Waiting for the time when enough will finally be enough. Don't think I'll live that long.

It's easy to get discouraged when the only change seems to be they happen more frequently.

 

[bluesneakers]

Hmm....I'm thinking you are right.

If that is the case, the next question is: prescription or illegal or both?

jmo

Alcohol is legal and you can get it without a prescription.

But.. a lot of people abuse painkillers like oxycontin. I wonder if he had any injuries or surgeries?

 

[Inthedetails]

Alcohol is legal and you can get it without a prescription.

True. But usually alcohol isn't the drug of choice of mass killers, at least not in my recollection.

jmo

 

[bluesneakers]

True. But usually alcohol isn't the drug of choice of mass killers, at least not in my recollection.

jmo

I think in his situation alcohol would just be the easiest answer, especially since the violence started while he was still in the Air Force. There's also a link between alcohol abuse and domestic violence.

The evidence linking alcohol abuse and gun-related violence is compelling. One study found that subjects who had ever been in trouble at work for drinking or were ever hospitalized for alcohol abuse were at increased risk of committing homicide and suicide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opinion/sunday/violent-drunk-and-holding-a-gun.html

 

[cady]

According to the sheriff per CNN . The in laws of the shooter attend the church, but were not at church yesterday. Moo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MSNBC reporter said his FORMER in-laws were members of the church, but weren't attending. (divorced in 2012 from 1st wife). ?????? Could he have been targeting his former wifes family? JMO

 

[sds71]

@stevechenevey
- gunman's mother/father-in-law's church but not there
- shooting caught on video
- no victim specifically targeted

 

[cady]

I distinctly heard FORMER in laws. Reporter could have misspoken, but that's what was said about 5 mins ago. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

I think in his situation alcohol would just be the easiest answer, especially since the violence started while he was still in the Air Force. There's also a link between alcohol abuse and domestic violence.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opinion/sunday/violent-drunk-and-holding-a-gun.html

I hear ya, but I think of alcohol violence as close to home - violence in the immediate situation, flared-up anger while intoxicated.

Mass-shooting violence takes some planning and focus, which aren't characteristics enhanced by alcohol. Booze can make a person angry and violent, but it doesn't make you focused.

Not excusing alcoholic violence! I grew up with a father who was an "angry drunk" and I know that violence.

I'm just seeing something different here in terms of possible drug use.

Of course, I could be totally off base. If he did abuse alcohol, I think it was in combo with something else that pushed him beyond lashing out at his wife and kids.

jmopinion

 

[Inthedetails]

I distinctly heard FORMER in laws. Reporter could have misspoken, but that's what was said about 5 mins ago. JMO

Maybe "former" in the sense that the killer is dead. Everything is "former" for him.

My hunch, however, is the reporter is misspeaking.

jmo

 

[CARIIS]

Its kinda starting to feel as if we might be heading into delusional territory

He claims he taught bible school ruminates over others religious beliefs drives to a church

The inlaw angle IMO might fit in at some level but it certainly sounds like there was a profound religious component to much of his life - that is scattered.

Out in the middle of nowhere the need to body armour is somewhat peculiar too. The town pop is 600 so its not like in reality

he is gonna encounter sophisticted SWAT entities.

I don't know paranoia that religious people are after him? Or must be killed cause a voice told him to , or something like he is saving everyone - just delusional stuff>>>


just pondering

and then in a lot of these it seems like somehow these folks find the money for all the stuff --it sure sounds as if he was dressed like all tactical which seems to fit more with bizarre thinking and believing

moo

MSNBC

7% of the population is dead if you take that math with injured you hit 14% of the town that is intense

It would be helful if we can read the actual arrests of DV stuff in terms of seeing if he was very distorted in thinking , drunk etc

I have tried but I do not know how the air force judicial stuff works but it was 2012 I would assume it has to be public??

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I distinctly heard FORMER in laws. Reporter could have misspoken, but that's what was said about 5 mins ago. JMO

Also, could indicate they are estranged or in the middle of divorce.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

MSNBC the charges were filed in a wrong county -- the way it was worded implied it may have had some reason why he was not flagged

CNN he was denied gun lisc in TX?

Msnbc apparently the charge was very very very serious so I think we will find out so intense stuff as it relates to the battery charges /event.

It sounds as if he might have been out of control to batter your child in the event as well .

 

[Miss Magnolia]

Sometimes I am ashamed to live in this country.

I don't think our Country is exclusive to Domestic Violence. I did a Battered Women's Crisis line for years. Many times when the abuser can no longer control their victim, they go after what the victim loves most and in this case it was the church his victims family attended. We are all rushing to figure out which box to check off, was it domestic violence, was it racial, was it a substance abuse issue, a mental illness issue, gun rights, a religious thing? I know I have had Women from all walks of life that live this nightmare, and it's not exclusive to the United States. Its just as difficult to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and violent criminals as it is keeping a person out of a car that has lost their driving privileges due to multiple DWI convictions. How often do we hear about repeat DWI offenders without a drivers license continuing to drive drunk and kill people? I can't begin to tell you the number of women that were victims of domestic violence that have called the Crisis Line back and wanting to drop the charges. It's a revolving door.

 

[CARIIS]

MSNBC reporter said his FORMER in-laws were members of the church, but weren't attending. (divorced in 2012 from 1st wife). ?????? Could he have been targeting his former wifes family? JMO

The date of the divorce kinda of IMO fits in with how serious and violent the incident must have been ??

moo

 

[CARIIS]

MSNBC the charges were filed in a wrong county -- the way it was worded implied it may have had some reason why he was not flagged