TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[MistyWaters]

"Here I am, 26, with no friends, no job, no girlfriend'......."
Sept 23, 2017
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-school-shootings-2017-story.html

Seems like something DK might've written. But no, it was not he.

 

[margarita25]

Unless I keep missing something I want to
get some context on threat to the MIL what was he angry about anyone know the theme of the conflict

(I'm going to guuueeeessss she was not happy with the way he treated her daughter, etc., and she let this be known to both him and her. He likely blamed her for relationship problems, etc. Maybe she was trying to help her get away from him. Again, speculation, moo.)

 

[margarita25]

They have this up at that link:
”[FONT="]Tessa Brennaman, the ex-wife of Devin Kelley, spoke out Friday for the first time since the gunman killed 26 people at a Texas church, describing the abuse she suffered during their short marriage. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#222222][FONT="]Kelley spent a year in military confinement after pleading guilty to domestic assault against Brennaman and her young son. On Friday, Brennaman told Inside Edition he once threatened to kill her while holding a gun to her head over a speeding ticket. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"He had a gun in his holster right here and he took that gun out and he put it to my temple, and he told me, 'Do you want to die? Do you want to die?'"[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#222222][FONT="]Kelley also threatened to kill her family, she said. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"He just had a lot of demons or hatred inside of him," she said.”[/FONT]

Just seeing this, there you go Carl, insight into the nature of the conflict.

 

[margarita25]

I've got an idea...how about study his brain in the lab? Dissection, etc...

 

[margarita25]

Texas Church Shooting: Who Were the Victims of the Sutherland Springs Massacre?
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/t...e-victims-sutherland-springs-massacre-n818356

 

[Betty P]

with the trouble the fbi is having with the phone is this all related to fingerprints?

what other kinds of stuff do new cell phones
have that make it so hard

sh#t - if there is something so potent why aren't banks and hospitals using this tech??

cockpit voice recorders survive impact - why cant they break it and use readers I am not understanding some things about the cell phone issues they are having??

any help is appreciated--everyday we turn on the news and something else is hacked.

what is so amazing about these cell phones??

From what I understand, it's just a matter of LE needing to get a SW to have the phone company open the phone. Same as it always was with landlines - LE needs a SW. The problem is that some in LE don't like having to get search warrants, they just want the phone company to hand over the information. Or they're asking for information that wasn't included in the SW.

Like the nurse who was assaulted by LE at the UT hospital recently, the phone companies are trying to stand up for everyone's legal rights. Give in a few times and it becomes a slippery slope. Sometimes I worry that LE uses these high profile cases to try to convince the public that phone companies are the bad guys when they're just trying to protect your rights.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Just seeing this, there you go Carl, insight into the nature of the conflict.

That was the first wife, although it's easy to see that there could have been a similar situation with the second wife.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Footwarrior]

with the trouble the fbi is having with the phone is this all related to fingerprints?

what other kinds of stuff do new cell phones
have that make it so hard

sh#t - if there is something so potent why aren't banks and hospitals using this tech??

cockpit voice recorders survive impact - why cant they break it and use readers I am not understanding some things about the cell phone issues they are having??

any help is appreciated--everyday we turn on the news and something else is hacked.

what is so amazing about these cell phones??

Most hacking is done using three different methods. Social engineering where you convince someone to tell you their password. Using hardware or software to intercept the keystrokes when a password is entered. And exploiting a defect in the system that allows rogue software to be installed.

The first two are not possible when the only person who knows the password is dead. Assuring of course they didn't write it down on a sticky note and leave it somewhere where you can find it. The third way is less likely when the phone must first be unlocked to install new software. Most cell phones also use sophisticated encryption techniques to recognize legitimate software such as an update from the system vendor.

Breaking open the device and reading the memory chip no longer works. In a modern cell phone the contents of that memory are encrypted.

 

[margarita25]

I'm trying to find out the total number of people in the church at the time of the shooting...anyone? Not seeing it...

If the brave good Samaritan hadn't confronted the shooter, how many more people could/would have been shot?

Eta: also, sorry if I missed it...had the shooter been to the church before?

 

[Betty P]

"Here I am, 26, with no friends, no job, no girlfriend'......."
Sept 23, 2017
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-school-shootings-2017-story.html

Seems like something DK might've written. But no, it was not he.

Tragic story, terrible parenting. Why do parents do this with their children with Aspergers and similar disorders?

When he was small and acting angrily, she would put him in a bear hug until he gave up, she recalled. Now, she felt, she had no solutions.

He owned nine guns, including an assault-style rifle, said Harper, a part-time night nurse at the county jail. She eventually joined him at the shooting range with her own AR-15, thinking it could be a healthy mother-son activity.

It was the same situation with Adam Lanza's mother. How could a parent be so ignorant? Really, I don't think they are. They know what they're doing. Maybe they view arming their own dangerous children as some sort of subtle revenge game against society because they're so upset with having a child with Aspergers? These parents aren't dumb when they do this, they're psychologically unfit.

 

[rsd1200]

There is prison. The American prison system is also its largest mental hospital.

It's the largest holder of people with mental health issues, but all it does is exacerbate them, not treat them, and when they are released, the human being who needed help, is no better off, and is probably even worse off, than they were before they sent them to prison. I can't speak for every case, or prison system, but I can speak for the slow deterioration I've witnessed first hand, of the one dear to me, whose been in our jails and prison system.

 

[bluesneakers]

It's the largest holder of people with mental health issues, but all it does is exacerbate them, not treat them, and when they are released, the human being who needed help, is no better off, and is probably even worse off, than they were before they sent them to prison. I can't speak for every case, or prison system, but I can speak for the slow deterioration I've witnessed first hand, of the one dear to me, whose been in our jails and prison system.

You might be interested in this article:
America's Largest Mental Hospital Is a Jail

People with mental illnesses need to be treated, not incarcerated. But that's not how our system works.

 

[rsd1200]

You might be interested in this article:
America's Largest Mental Hospital Is a Jail

People with mental illnesses need to be treated, not incarcerated. But that's not how our system works.

Thank you. I will try to read it. Is it a positive article about change? If it is, I'll give it a shot. If it's not, I just can't.

 

[rsd1200]

Tragic story, terrible parenting. Why do parents do this with their children with Aspergers and similar disorders?





It was the same situation with Adam Lanza's mother. How could a parent be so ignorant? Really, I don't think they are. They know what they're doing. Maybe they view arming their own dangerous children as some sort of subtle revenge game against society because they're so upset with having a child with Aspergers? These parents aren't dumb when they do this, they're psychologically unfit.

I hesitate to call them that. I think that they are trying to find a way to connect. I just don't think that any loving parent ever thinks that their child is going to be a school shooter, or mall shooter, or church shooter. I don't think their mind can go there. I kinda think it was something he enjoyed and the parents see a way to try and bond, or connect, with a child that they've lost connection with. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[kittythehare]

[FONT=&amp] [video=twitter;929437908884443138]https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/929437908884443138[/video][/FONT]

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

"Here I am, 26, with no friends, no job, no girlfriend'......."
Sept 23, 2017
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-school-shootings-2017-story.html

Seems like something DK might've written. But no, it was not he.

It seems to me that those who cannot **assimilate** have the most anger and lash out.

It is very hard for many to feel sympathetic because with life brings great challenges & resonsibilities that we must find the fortitude to endure. Examples of which are being told by your doctor that you have a fatal disease, or hearing your spouse has been cheating on you with your best friend, or losing your career to overseas outsourcing, or being a victim to stalking or rape.

So to hear the resounding theme from these shooters about the world didn’t really like them can cause initial anger in those of us that have endured and overcome true life challenges.

I wish our society could do something proactive with those that can’t **assimilate**

 

[dianaelaine59]

Texas Church Shooting: Who Were the Victims of the Sutherland Springs Massacre?
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/t...e-victims-sutherland-springs-massacre-n818356

You know I look at this and I think, why weren't any of those healthy young men able to stop him?

It just seems strange, that they didn't tackle him, I don't know maybe it happened too fast, but I can't see the men just standing there and letting him shoot everybody.

By the way, absolutely no blame here, just my thoughts as I looked at the victims.

Your thoughts?


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[ATasteOfHoney]

in reality in any of the personality DO there is little desire to change -- change into what

the core notion regarding any personality disorder--are there pervasive and enduring ways of looking and experiencing the world around them

there is not anything to change to -- it is what the individual knows, and their responses and perceptions of the world around is well just IS.

Its like breathing - it happens - automatically

Therapy can afford insight - but in truth - the PD are not treatable entities

imo the diagnosis is actually more helpful in terms of a clinician using the charactertics and ways people get there needs met , and the problems they experiance while living

I kinda think that because they are diagnosed it gives an illusion obe being treatment -- they are not - it is the only way the person knows how to be

moo

I think from the onset that is why (and still is ) my want to understand what Axis 1 stuff he was suffering which ended the way it did

Was he paranoid

Delusional - what were the themes of his delusional thinking

was he hearing command hallucinations

was there a visual component to his hallucinations

manifestations of religiosity

inner torment based on family interactions as it relates specifically to religion

drugs

We can comfortably believe he was anti social - but that does not really answer any specific questions regarding last Sunday does it?

That in and of itself IMO wont

We need IMO the neurotransmitter angle of his mental issues

It is like IMO Holmes, much was answered when it became clear that he was the joker that night.

That is what the Joker was -- mean and cruel and must kill

at some level that does put that night into some context as to why what happened that night

he was the joker....

same kind of thing with planned parenthood -- he was saving children, in his mind

Elliot overtly took the way people around him responded to him as rejection.

When the reality was people responded the way they did to him is because Aspergers results in peculiar interactions with other socially- it makes other uncomfortable.

A dear friend of mine son is autistic - and when Taylor was having a particularly difficult day in public when people looked we explained that he was autistic-- in 99% of the instances the stareing, the whispering, the fear often vanished and was replaced with empathy and compassionate for Taylor Judy and myself.

Back to church tradegy

was he god

was he the devil

were people after him

was god telling him to kill these people

it is moo but a tiff with a MIL does not explain much at all to me

there were imo neurotransmitters amuck - but how did those misfirings result in what happened when it happened when it did

Hopefully if ever discovered, the nature of threats, their context , and meaning to him - (specifically) might be really helpful in sorting out some of the above. \\moo

Right.
Schizoeffective/schizophreniform is very difficult to treat.
BPD is very tough too.
All the PD’s are difficult because they “drain” the clinician. And there is always a co-existing PD lying right behind the main PD diagnosis just waiting to rear it’s head! The patient loops back to the same behaviors and actions over and over again. Insightfulness, mindfulness, cause and effect, reflect fullness, empathy is just not there.

Some types of therapy combined with medication may make a difference. But it all is very difficult.

Moo

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/...20171111&nl=top-stories&nlid=68626860&ref=cta

. But military records and interviews with fellow airmen show that despite repeated chances, his career fell apart under the weight of his depression and rage, at a time when his mind was churning with half-laid plans to kill his superiors.

“He was a dude on the edge,” Ms. Edwards added, noting that he would appear at informal squadron social functions in all black and a black trench coat. “This is not just in hindsight. He scared me at the time.”

. When punished for poor performance, Mr. Kelley would cry, scream and shake with rage, vowing to kill his superiors, she recalled.

Besides earning mostly C’s, he had amassed at least seven suspensions for insubordination, profanity, dishonesty and drugs, according to school records.

The Air Force did not provide details on whether Mr. Kelley passed the required polygraph, which typically scrutinizes mental health, drug use, family issues and disruptive behavior. A military official briefed on Mr. Kelley’s Air Force record said only that he was cut from the school for “academic reasons.”

nough, said Ms. Edwards, who worked in the same office, but he and his new wife fought constantly and were being investigated by local child protective services for child abuse. His wife, who later divorced him, declined to comment.


!!!!!!

 

[kittythehare]

While Mr. Kelley awaited court-martial, the Air Force sent him to a civilian psychiatric hospital in Santa Teresa, N.M., where, according to local emergency dispatch records, he was given medication for depression, anxiety and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and was considered a “high-risk patient.”

from NYT link below