GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[IBsleuthin]

Am I invisible? :rockon:

:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

 

[IBsleuthin]

I keep wondering..... if he had an accomplice......why the have charged him with her actual murder...
Is it taped?
Bothers me to even ask!

I think this is a legitimate question.

Might be one of those types of things where it comes down to who actually killed her and who was just helping?

It's a sick world.


I say if you are there then you swing with the rest of them.

 

[greenpalm]

RSBM


When I very first looked at the overhead of Cindy Lane intersection with the tarp still lying there, my first impression was that there were at the least two people involved.

I got this impression because of the way the tarp was laying. It looked very clear to me that someone had calmly and calculatedly pulled up to the stop sign and then another person, perhaps located in a back seat or rear area of a van, had opened the door and just quietly slid her right out onto the street, then they pulled away.

I remember posting then, ..."I think they need to look for 2 people".

I'll go try to find that post.

Yeah, I sure do remember that. Do you remember, on July 16th when I said this? (Bold added now)

I have thought about this. I'm not sure it was for shock value. I think they wanted her to be found quickly for different reasons.

Also I've thought about my "clever" perp theory. Usually there aren't traffic cameras in neighborhoods at stop signs, you only get them at big high traffic intersections. Perhaps our perp was avoiding being caught on camera. To dump her in a dumpster behind a business would risk being seen by surveillance cameras. If the perp took her far away S/he would have been missed from being gone too long, AND driven through multiple intersections with cameras.

Didn't we discuss up-thread somewhere that the place in the street where she was dumped was blocked from view from most of the houses? Or at least the passenger's side of the car was facing into a fence I believe. It may have been more private than we think.

This may be graphic, (I never know what's graphic to some, because I'm not squeamish) if you load her into the tarp and into the car inside a garage, then you could prop her on the floor of the vehicle, leaning against the door, so that her weight would slide out onto the curb when you stop at the stop sign and quickly open the passenger door and slide her out. 1, 2, 3, done. I think you could do that very quickly. She was at a STOP sign wasn't she? Goin back to double check.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I think it really helps to know your not done when they hit 13! I know way too many people that simply and blindly trust their kids. At that age as if magically they're now perfectly capable of caring for themselves!

My son has a great dad, I'm a stay at home mom.., 12-13 was a little rough! that testosterone is like poison to their little boy brains ... Everything you taught them goes right out the window! Its like invasion of the body snatchers! Terrible twos all over. It's not just mine. I have a friend that raised 6 of em!!! I called her often! She would remind me... He's like a two year old all over, be consistent.. This too will pass. It did! Thankfully! I think many parents get tired or give up. You can't!
Now he's terrific again it was worth it'

RBBM

I'm SOOO glad you wrote this.


More parents should get online or on the phone with other parents so they understand it's not YOU, you are not losing your mind, your child is not possessed, actually there isn't anything wrong with your child!

It's those dang hormones and the fact that their poor brains aren't even fully developed yet. They don't know where to turn.




Sorry, that was completely off topic. It's been a long, hormone filled summer let me tell you. With lots of reminders..."I'm your mother, where did you get the idea you can talk to me like that?"

 

[greenpalm]

I think this is a legitimate question.

Might be one of those types of things where it comes down to who actually killed her and who was just helping?

It's a sick world.


I say if you are there then you swing with the rest of them.

This is what's know as the Texas Law of Parties. Essentially you can be charged with Capitol Murder, and yes, even sentenced to death, (unless you're not 18) just by being there.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/7.01.00.html

§ 7.01. PARTIES TO OFFENSES. (a) A person is criminally
responsible as a party to an offense if the offense is committed by
his own conduct, by the conduct of another for which he is
criminally responsible, or by both.
(b) Each party to an offense may be charged with commission
of the offense.
(c) All traditional distinctions between accomplices and
principals are abolished by this section, and each party to an
offense may be charged and convicted without alleging that he acted
as a principal or accomplice.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

 

[greenpalm]

Someone help me out....:seeya:
What am I suppose to see in these screenshots?
How can we tell who that is?
Thanks

Hey! Sorry!

Those are screen shots of a news video of Tyler Holder getting loaded into an ambulance. It's very dim and hard to see, but the point of them is that you can see his left arm moving, so we know he was conscious on some level as they were loading him into the ambulance. There are two screen shots so you can see that his arm is in two different positions. HTH

 

[floridamomma]

I could not.

But then I think houses retain the energy, (good or bad) of it's previous owner's.


BUT, if you didn't know what had happened there, you wouldn't know? I don't know.

I recall reading some article a couple of months ago where a couple bought a house and then found out a murder had taken place there and I think they sued the realtor for lack of full disclosure. Don't quote me, I wasn't paying attention. :blushing:

as a former real estate agent, i can tell you in some states, a murder in a house is a required disclosure....

 

[SeabrookJPO]

Really good question. I'm guessing sealed because he's a juvenile?

Working in juvenile probation I see this all the time! In the state of Texas a juveniles record isn't automatically sealed, a parent or guardian must actually hire an attorney and request it in court and a judge must approve it. However, a juveniles criminal history won't be made public while they are still a juvenile. It's actually a HUGE misconception among our kids that when they turn 18 it's all gone...not true...and they are shocked to find this out!

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Parents-get-tips-on-youthful-offenders-2220642.php

However, there are certain loopholes regarding "less serious" crimes...

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...akes-some-juvenile-records-public-3375574.php

Regarding the Capitol Murder charge for all involved in this crime...it doesn't matter who actually did it, all there at the time of the murder will be held to the same standard...here is an example...and they are all 17 years old...notice it doesn't list who actually pulled the trigger...

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...top-leads-to-arrest-of-3-teens-in-1690411.php

 

[floridamomma]

I actually found age 2 very easy - and have twins. Age 3...yikes. Mine are technically 4 now but were micropreemies so effectively we have a few months of 3 left.

two is a piece of cake with 4 teens!

i used to think two was a rough age. hahaha! try 15! ugh.

 

[greenpalm]

Where is the alleged accomplice?
Anymore police searches in AG's neighborhood?
Anyone know if all DNA results at in?
Imo

Nope, no new news. The only new stuff that's come in is that Officer Lodatto went home :woot: arty: and that an organization called Tarrant Blues are sending him, his wife and two children on an all expenses paid vacation to anywhere in the US. :wave:

I don't think we've heard a thing new regarding the investigation or Tyler's condition.

 

[carole]

Can we find anywhere that TH has a valid driver's license?

I'm thinking because he's a juvenile this isn't public?

As in, does he have a DUI and can't legally drive?

According to his arrest warrant, he does have a drivers license.

http://www.saginaw-texas.com/tyler-holder-capital-murder-arrest-warrant-affidavit/

 

[IBsleuthin]

According to his arrest warrant, he does have a drivers license.

http://www.saginaw-texas.com/tyler-holder-capital-murder-arrest-warrant-affidavit/

This is why Websleuthers are the best!!

 

[sunsetbeach]

RBBM
Wow! TH took a cruise to the Caribbean? About what age does he look like in that pic SB?
Considering the cruise and the successful competitions, these are positive, very positive things in his life. What the heck went wrong??? MOO

Well he took a cruise with his Mom and he looked about 15 or 16. It was before his dreadlocks.
His hair looked like the pot smoking pictures.

 

[sunsetbeach]

When I was 17 I drove a 1977 Pontiac Catalina because it was a hand me down from Mom. She bought herself a Camaro Z28 almost as soon as I got a driver's license. I was the youngest and she was ready to drive a car that wasn't the mom mobile. So… our cars looked "backward" too. The truth is the most sporty and expensive cars I see are driven by middle aged men, because that's who can afford them, although certainly teenaged boys have sports car posters on their walls.

Can anyone get a screen shot, or at least a link of these two decals on the window? or at least a link so I can grab it myself. Is it in the "sneering" at reporters video? It's unclear to me which car has them, from the way you wrote that I wasn't sure, is it the Kia or the Doge Magnum with the fishing and archery stickers? Thanks!

ETA: found it myself: (Click for larger image)


I think the green one on the left is from Fuzzy's Taco Shop. I don't recognize the pink one. But if you say that's archery I believe you.

Here's a sweatshirt and a sticker with Fuzzy's logos similar to the one on the car:

That second sticker (pink) is a Browning sticker. We have one on our truck but it's red white and blue. It's a Gun company and a very popular one at that.

http://www.browning.com/

 

[sunsetbeach]

Are you sure?, I saw the page too, just glanced at it but thought the boat pic was from Houston.



Never knew an AR-15 was considered a hunting rifle, that was her brother.

Yeah I am sure I read in the description (which was located on the right) that it said something about a Caribbean Cruise.

 

[sunsetbeach]

What was Tyler's mother supposed to be doing?? LE would not let her see her son and they would not let her stay at the hospital.

She may have closed her FB account because she didn't want to see any kind of messages, be they caring or nasty, from her FB friends. She couldn't go home because there was a search going on. Maybe she was just trying to keep herself from going completely crazy.

At the time when I saw that it was not reported in the media that she was not allowed to see her son. I was only talking about my reaction at that time.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I am on pins and needles waiting to hear more about a potential accomplice or at least get the answer on how Alanna was transported to where she was found. I just can't rest knowing there might be someone else involved that is still walking free.

IMO, there are never going to be answers or any viable explanation for why he did what he did. I truly believe that some are born with imbalances that predispose them to violent, deviant behavior. The vast majority are male so IMO male hormones also come into play. Society still accepts and promotes aggressive and inappropriate sexual behavior from males. Women in society have always been shamed for showing overly aggressive or sexual behavior. I think to often society looks at males and says oh "boys will be boys" instead of correcting the inappropriate behavior and if this is continually ignored as being a "guy" thing (maybe out of convenience to explain the behavior) then it can be allowed to escalate over time.

add in this:

I was born in the 60's and sure there was drugs and *advertiser censored*. The violence on TV and at the movie theater was minimal. There were no violent video games and even though *advertiser censored* existed it was not easily available. Now our youth can literally sit at the computer or in front of the tv screen and view the most depraved things in the world with the click of a button. There is no way guaranteed way to censor this from our youth. A lot of kids are now sitting in front of the computer 24/7 feeding their forming brains with this stuff while parents work. I ask myself is it really a wonder that we are seeing more and more teens committing horrific violent acts?

I didn't even mention additional trauma that one might experience in childhood because throughout history there has been no "shortage" of humans that have experienced multiple forms of trauma in their lives and NOT gone on to do horrible things to other people. I'm not saying trauma in life doesn't contribute, but IMO it's most certainly not the only cause.

 

[TracyLynnS]

It's a Gun company and a very popular one at that.

http://www.browning.com/

RSBM

This info is kind of significant, imo, considering TH shot a police officer.

Since my relatives hunt almost exclusively with bow and arrow, rather than guns, and lots of my family members have these Browning stickers and apparel with the logo, I assumed it was connected to archery and gave the wrong info in my previous posts.

Sorry about that folks!

And thanks for the correct info, sunsetbeach!

 

[greenpalm]

When I first saw pics of the cars in their driveway, I assumed the red car was mom's and TH's car was the green kia. It seemed more sporty for a teen. In the back window there are two bumper stickers. One looks like a fish with a slogan and the other is a Browning archery symbol, both seem appropriate for younger people. But, the browning deer head logo is all pink. They are available in many colors and I don't think a boy would choose the pink version of that sticker to display on his car.

RSBM, BBM

That second sticker (pink) is a Browning sticker. We have one on our truck but it's red white and blue. It's a Gun company and a very popular one at that.

http://www.browning.com/

BBM

So, the Browning deer head symbol is not particular to archery? If it's a broader company that sells guns as well as archery equipment, then our archery assumptions may be completely misguided. We know from FB mom had gun pictures, and we know there was a gun in the home used in the shoot out. I don't know how to be certain Tyler was ever involved in competitive archery. But the age, and name are correct on the archery tournament PDF files. One of them said S. TX next to his name, one poster thought that was "south," but couldn't it just as easily be an abbreviation for Saginaw?


ETA: TracyLynnS and I were simul-posting, said the same thing.

 

[Wondergirl]

RSBM, BBM

BBM

So, the Browning deer head symbol is not particular to archery? If it's a broader company that sells guns as well as archery equipment, then our archery assumptions may be completely misguided. We know from FB mom had gun pictures, and we know there was a gun in the home used in the shoot out. I don't know how to be certain Tyler was ever involved in competitive archery. But the age, and name are correct on the archery tournament PDF files. One of them said S. TX next to his name, one poster thought that was "south," but couldn't it just as easily be an abbreviation for Saginaw?


ETA: TracyLynnS and I were simul-posting, said the same thing.

Deer decals like the one on KH's car are extremely common on vehicles in my rural area.

The deer decal is not necessarily an alliance with Browning at all. It is no different than displaying a Nike symbol, or whatever. It's a pop culture thing.

Jmo