GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #13

[Dora the Explorer]

Just an FYI, Zillow has 649 Babbling Brook listed as Sold in 2008. His mom can possibly be renting and they could have moved in any time between Feb. 2008 and June 2013 though.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/649-Babbling-Brook-Dr-Saginaw-TX-76179/29309389_zpid/

No, she owns it. I forget where I saw it but could dig it up.

 

[Marnie]

Our schools have a bullying policy and those issues have to be handled, But, parents do have to be pushy.

Seriously, other people do not know what is happening with other children, You would be upset if staff was talking about your child to other parents. I am just explaining why people do not know what is going on behind the scenes.

I commend you for what you did. You had to protect your child and you showed him that you will protect him and something can be done to stop bullies.

Obviously, I don't know that bully's situation, but often bullies get the stuffing beat out of them at home. The apple does not fall far from the tree. The school may have been trying other methods. Who knows. Or some schools do not have anti bullying protocols in place.

I asked before, but got no answer,

In my state, if a child is not in school until age 16, the parents go to court for neglect.

How come TH could quit going to school in 2010? If you homeschool, don't people have to do testing and prove their child is learning?

BBM: TY and thanks for your insight as a teacher.

Yes, there are anti-bully protocols in place, but mostly the bully just gets a quiet three day suspension. Any fighting results in a suspension.

In my state too, a truant officer will show up at the door if a child is unexcused absent for x amount of days. I believe that it IS up to age 16. They also issue citations and parents have to go to court for the truancy.

We don't KNOW that TH quit school in 2010. The school official from TH's district stated that he was not enrolled in THAT district since 2010. He may have been in school somewhere else.

 

[human]

Kind of O/T, I don't really know. Sorry mods if this is inappropriate and maybe should be in a different thread.

I have been caring for my 4 and 5 year old granddaughters almost full time for the last couple weeks while I have been following this thread. They want to play outdoors all day long with the neighbor girl, so I am out there with them the entire time. (I haven't quite figured out how to care for them and get anything done. I don't know how other people do it.) Anyway, the other little girl lives 2 houses down and they run back and forth between houses. Occasionally they are out of my sight because of a bush or tree and when that happens I think about the cases I read on here. I think about that split second that all it takes for something to happen. (I find it hard to even go to the bathroom and call them inside when I do) Several times they have gotten boo boos inside when I have simply gone in the kitchen to cook dinner or gone to the basement to do a load of laundry. I know I am just getting used to this and eventually a better routine will be established.

We have had problems with other neighborhood boys when we are outside playing. They are in the 9-13 year old range and are unsupervised. I don't know where they come from or where they live. I as well as other neighborhood parents have ask them to stay away from the girls. They don't listen to adults, they bully, they are rough and appear to be just angry in general.

Yesterday we were taking a walk and the boys were riding down the sidewalks as fast as they could right at us. We crossed the street and they came on that side and did the same thing. They hit one of the girls with their handlebars. Obviously, their behavior is purposeful.

Then I come here and read to try and catch up everyday. I think about TH and I think about these boys in my neighborhood. I wonder what can be done. I have my hands full with my own little two as well as other struggles.

We as society have to do something about these unsupervised, angry, bullies that don't listen to adults. I'm not just talking about one kid in my neighborhood, there are many.

It's been a hard few weeks for me and a difficult summer watching all this happen in my neighborhood. I try to talk to them, I think and I wonder how we can make this a better world for this generation. How can society work toward eliminating more TH's and other children that grow into violent offenders?

The anti-bullying programs are a great start, but these are fairly new in our schools. I don't know that all schools have adopted these policies.

Sigh........

Sorry for the rant.

That is a REAL problem and I am shouting about it. What to do?

You could have a little party at your house and invite them. But, how dangerous are they? Do you want them hanging around?

Kids are no different than adults. We want to be accepted and loved. Your ruffians do as well.

In another country where I live half the year, we had a little party for some kids by their house, not the one we rent. We had pin the tail on the dog, water balloons, pinata and drop the clothespin in the bottle. I made everything out of junk such as using a box and cutting up newspapers to make the pinata. We gave prizes of candy to every child---- about 20 as little toys are way tooooo expensive there. The 12 year old boy would have preferred cigs.

They are extemely friendly to us, but we tell them that the owner of the rental house does not want a lot of visitors. That would not work for you.

On the other hand, we had a family by my US home where the BF burned his house down while smoking and killed one of the children.

One of the neighbors would let the children use her phone ( this was years ago and it was a landline in the house) because they did not have one.They repaid her by stealing from her.

Can you think of anything positive to focus on with them? Maybe even buy a bunch of Tootsie Rolls pops or something cheap and tell them you have noticed them and you thought they might like a candy? And no, no ex lax candies!

I really feel for you!

 

[fred&edna]

'Sorry if this has been mentioned before but... I thought maybe someone on this forum (Mitsubishi Eclipse 3G) might recognize one of the cars. Also, some members on the site post photos of their cars. I haven't had chance to look but it's possible the forum could be of use.

http://www.club3g.com/forum/texas/


* I don't know much about cars. Maybe the Eclipse is not even close to the Lancer... I dunno'.

 

[SDT]

I noticed that earlier, too. Hmmm. Didn't someone mention that black wheels are popular with a certain age group or segment of the population?

Yes, they are called "Pro Stars" if I remember correctly and they are not all black. Many guys and gals illegally street race here in our small town outside of the city limits. That is the most popular (expensive) set of wheels amongst this group.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, they are called "Pro Stars" if I remember correctly and they are not all black. Many guys and gals illegally street race here in our small town outside of the city limits. That is the most popular (expensive) set of wheels amongst this group.

You're so "hip"

 

[SDT]

You're so "hip"

Not really...I am just that girl that had a Mustang GT and a street bike before I decided to grow up.

I will bet you a million $$$, TH and his group of buddies belonged to a racing forum in their local area.

 

[SDT]

I want to also say...maybe TH wasn't into it as much as his friends with his gaming habit, but maybe it is a place to look???

Very few people I used to run with would go through the trouble of modding their cars just for looks.

Do we have any closeups of TH's car? I would like to look at the exhaust and rims/tires.......

 

[x_files]

ITA There's one in every neighborhood, that creepy kid who everyone knows just isn't right. Yet, when a child turned up dead, no one posted about TH (or other possible POI's right under their nose). Too many were far more pleased to raise unwarranted suspicions about parents with no history of past bad deeds. It wasn't until after his arrest that the stories about TH came out of the woodwork. Why?

Because of TOS rules we couldn't discuss anyone not named a MM suspect. I had my eye on him after LE went for a DNA swab and he was standing there staring at reporters with a menacing look. Something felt off.
On fb Saignaw News fb page a few people mentioned TH pacing, acting strange at the scene of her body was found and announcing it was AG before it was determined by LE. So, their was chatter but wasn't able to openly discuss it here. A few members mentioned kid with dreads and the teen neighbor.

 

[TracyLynnS]

From media I heard he did lawns in the area so I figured nice day out for the season maybe he was out doing yards making money that day. Figured that was why he was being questioned by police. Found him on FB and realized he was into drugs. Thinking if people let him cut their grass he must just be a stoner, no real goals in life but nothing to fear. Dangerous to himself but no one else.

Hearing more about him from neighbors I wonder who let him cut their grass if he was viewed in such a bad light? I personally would not allow him on my lawn, I do not care how cheap he was.

Back a thread or two there was discussion about TH "mowing the lawn". I'm pretty sure the following is opinion/rumor.

Apparently "mowing the lawn" is slang for smoking drugs. IIRC, one poster suggested that perhaps a person commented that all he knew about TH was that he was known for mowing the lawn, and a reporter took it as fact rather than slang.

I don't think we ever heard media reports from any neighbors verifying that he was hired to do yard work in the area and some of the posters here think he may have been too unmotivated to do physical labor anyway.

So even tho it appears media named him as local kid who mowed his neighbor's lawns, IMO that info really isn't confirmed.

Of course, the neighbors could be keeping quiet on the subject. I imagine if someone there admitted to the media that they had hired him to do their yard work, they'd be hounded by the press and probably wouldn't want to deal with that in the middle of this horrible murder investigation.

 

[skibaboo]

Because of TOS rules we couldn't discuss anyone not named a MM suspect. I had my eye on him after LE went for a DNA swab and he was standing there staring at reporters with a menacing look. Something felt off.
On fb Saignaw News fb page a few people mentioned TH pacing, acting strange at the scene of her body was found and announcing it was AG before it was determined by LE. So, their was chatter but wasn't able to openly discuss it here. A few members mentioned kid with dreads and the teen neighbor.

Bessie please correct me if I'm wrong. But I think bessie means by neighbours and people who knew TH, on fb and social media and in the media. Not posters on WS. Which MOO I think LE asked them not to, so that TH wasn't spooked?

I remember posters, possibly yourself included mentioning on here about their suspicions about how TH looked at the camera and his demeanour when LE were at his house, and I recall thinking the same but I thought they may have been there in relation to tips about the red truck, because his vehicle is red. We couldn't know about his behaviour until that point because there was no mention of him in MSM prior. I think that is bessies point?

 

[Marnie]

We have had problems with other neighborhood boys when we are outside playing. They are in the 9-13 year old range and are unsupervised. I don't know where they come from or where they live. I as well as other neighborhood parents have ask them to stay away from the girls. They don't listen to adults, they bully, they are rough and appear to be just angry in general.

Yesterday we were taking a walk and the boys were riding down the sidewalks as fast as they could right at us. We crossed the street and they came on that side and did the same thing. They hit one of the girls with their handlebars. Obviously, their behavior is purposeful.

Then I come here and read to try and catch up everyday. I think about TH and I think about these boys in my neighborhood. I wonder what can be done. I have my hands full with my own little two as well as other struggles.

We as society have to do something about these unsupervised, angry, bullies that don't listen to adults. I'm not just talking about one kid in my neighborhood, there are many.

Respectfully snipped by me.

You said that you and other neighborhood parents have asked them to stay away from the little ones. Why don't you form an alliance with some of the neighbors where one of you would get in your car and follow them to where they live. Other trusted neighbor, could be watching the little ones, or put them in car seats and take them with.

At that age, sometimes just knocking and telling the parents can work wonders, but don't be surprised if you are met with, "not my sweet little Johnny" type attitude. It's worth a shot.

Stay strong, BL!!

 

[greenpalm]

I am not convinced he did use something to destroy DNA. We have speculated that this is what he did because of the "unknown liquid" all over Alanna and the collection of hot tub water from the G's house. One theory was that the liquid on Alanna smelled like bleach or chlorine. But there are other possible explanations. This was before the autopsy. LE may have collected the tub water in case the autopsy revealed she had drowned. The liquid on Alanna may not have smelled like bleach/chlorine. If it didn't, was there something else that pointed to TH using a liquid to destroy DNA? Apologies in advance if I missed something.

No, nothing else, just the combination of her and her clothes being wet, and LE collecting hot tub water samples. Those are the things that lead to speculation that he tried to destroy DNA. Well, perhaps also that he willingly gave a sample even before they had a warrant.

I am trying to follow this case, but because I cannot be on the forum 24/7 I am finding when I do log in there is so much new conversation that I have missed. So, I am wondering if there is an area where new developments are being posted. Thanks in advance for pointing me there if it exists. tia

There are two threads for Alanna with just media, docs and and timeline links: no discussion. They are in the Located:Media and Time Line forum, you can access on thread the docs and Who's Who in my signature. Just cluck on the "Who's Who". Here's a link to the media timeline thread: TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw **Timeline and Media Links** NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I asked before, but got no answer,

In my state, if a child is not in school until age 16, the parents go to court for neglect.

How come TH could quit going to school in 2010? If you homeschool, don't people have to do testing and prove their child is learning?

RSBM


No, not in Texas. You don't have to do any testing, or annual meetings with supervisors. Texas State Law Requirements Regarding Home Schooling are quoted below. This is what the law says, but the reality is that there is no means of officially confirming or monitoring this. Basically, unless someone reported you for neglect, you would never be asked to verify the following. Also, these requirements can be met in very creative ways. There is also a support group called the Texas Homeschool Coalition that has attorneys who will help you legally defend yourself as a homeschooler should you ever be called into question. The first thing they advise is that you don't have to answer to anyone unless they have a warrant, and you shouldn't.

To home school legally in Texas, you must follow three state law requirements:

The instruction must be bona fide (i.e., not a sham).
The curriculum must be in visual form (e.g., books, workbooks, video monitor).
The curriculum must include the five basic subjects of reading, spelling, grammar, mathematics, and good citizenship.

That's from this link: http://thsc.org/homeschooling-in-texas/state-requirements/

 

[greenpalm]

"Karl Gallagher, Alanna’s father, said last year that Holder slashed the tires on their vehicles and egged their cars. The father of Alanna said, at the time, he didn’t think much of it. “I wonder if that was an opportunity if we could have changed things so this wouldn’t have happened. But, at the time, it was just an obnoxious teen that I didn’t want to deal with,” he said."

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/murdered-girls-parents-react-to-neighbors-arrest/

Also: In a television interview, Alanna’s father said Holder had previously slashed his tires. He didn’t press the issue because he figured Holder was just another confused kid.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/e...case-of-slain-6-year-old-alanna-gallagher.ece

I know I read it somewhere (or saw it in a vid) that TH knocked on their door to tell them about their tires. Also that the police came out and ascertained that it was Holder who admitted to it.

Obviously, from the video posted with the link, KG knew it was Holder and didn't press charges for his own reasons.

Maybe a wonderful WSer has a better link.

ETA: Just noticed that KG said VEHICLES plural and cars

I read it too, that he came to the door and told them. Then he waited around until they called LE and I think KG handed the phone to TH to talk to LE.

I just got the impression that the G's thought that he did it, not that they knew he did?

It mystifies me. If some kid slashed my tires, he would be paying to replace them.

:findinglink: I remember that too. I'll be back :lookingitup:

 

[x_files]

Good point, maybe it was in the garage?

If you look who's seated in the driver seat of the white Camaro though, they have a very thin arm when compared to the person sitting in the passenger seat. And judging by the pic of TH, his arms aren't really that thin at all.

Ex-gf's arm? Arm seems slight/slender. Female?

 

[greenpalm]

:findinglink: I remember that too. I'll be back :lookingitup:

Here's the info about The tires and Tyler admitting he had done it:

Karl Gallagher says the teen came over to their house to say their tires had been slashed, then hung around the house. Karl Gallagher called police, who discovered Holder had actually slashed the tires himself.

Read more: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/22909...-girls-neighborhood-shots-fired#ixzz2akpK0ZWq

 

[Oleander]

Going out on a limb, here, but we're not making much progress with what we have.

TH had sex with men. Perhaps one of those men was a neighbor, a fine upstanding citizen who nobody would suspect of sodomy, and he'd like to keep it that way. I'll call him "Mr. X". So, when TH walked to his house and said "X, dude, you gotta help me. You have to dump a body, or the cops will come, and I'll have to tell them all about you."

Mr. X backed up to TH's garage, picked up Alanna, dumped her a few streets away, and hightailed it to McDonalds/Walmart/pick up his wife from work, thereby establishing an alibi for why his car was seen leaving and re-entering the neighborhood.

And, yeah, he wore gloves.

 

[Backwoods]

What would be the reasons to frame him? He has no money. TH had nothing going for him. Drop out druggie with no job. He is worthless so no point in framing him.





Personally I would be scared of saying anything publicly about him if I had witnessed or heard of the things he has done and thought maybe it was him. Then add the fire my lips would have been glued shut unless speaking privately to the cops. We do not know if he did set it or not but given what we know now I bet it was him.
Parents that kill their kids seem to only be a threat to other children in their house or each other, so pointing that finger at them would be safe for neighbors to do. They ( the parents) would be laying low. Someone else in the area might try to intimidate others into keeping their mouth shut. Alanna's family seemed to know that how everything happened it did not look good for them. She was found before reported missing. My first thought went straight to the parents. After looking at them I stopped thinking they had anything to do for the most part. I still had one of the parents in the back of my mind. But he was way after neighbor, some random pedophile out looking and got lucky, serial killer, accident of some kind.

bbm: Well, a person who was involved with him in some unsavory or illegal way -- someone who happened also to have a burning desire to abduct, assault, and kill a child and pin suspicion on someone else -- might want to frame him.

Again, not saying this is what happened or that there is such another person -- was just making an observation.

 

[x_files]

Kind of O/T, I don't really know. Sorry mods if this is inappropriate and maybe should be in a different thread.

I have been caring for my 4 and 5 year old granddaughters almost full time for the last couple weeks while I have been following this thread. They want to play outdoors all day long with the neighbor girl, so I am out there with them the entire time. (I haven't quite figured out how to care for them and get anything done. I don't know how other people do it.) Anyway, the other little girl lives 2 houses down and they run back and forth between houses. Occasionally they are out of my sight because of a bush or tree and when that happens I think about the cases I read on here. I think about that split second that all it takes for something to happen. (I find it hard to even go to the bathroom and call them inside when I do) Several times they have gotten boo boos inside when I have simply gone in the kitchen to cook dinner or gone to the basement to do a load of laundry. I know I am just getting used to this and eventually a better routine will be established.

We have had problems with other neighborhood boys when we are outside playing. They are in the 9-13 year old range and are unsupervised. I don't know where they come from or where they live. I as well as other neighborhood parents have ask them to stay away from the girls. They don't listen to adults, they bully, they are rough and appear to be just angry in general.

Yesterday we were taking a walk and the boys were riding down the sidewalks as fast as they could right at us. We crossed the street and they came on that side and did the same thing. They hit one of the girls with their handlebars. Obviously, their behavior is purposeful.

Then I come here and read to try and catch up everyday. I think about TH and I think about these boys in my neighborhood. I wonder what can be done. I have my hands full with my own little two as well as other struggles.

We as society have to do something about these unsupervised, angry, bullies that don't listen to adults. I'm not just talking about one kid in my neighborhood, there are many.

It's been a hard few weeks for me and a difficult summer watching all this happen in my neighborhood. I try to talk to them, I think and I wonder how we can make this a better world for this generation. How can society work toward eliminating more TH's and other children that grow into violent offenders?

The anti-bullying programs are a great start, but these are fairly new in our schools. I don't know that all schools have adopted these policies.

Sigh........

Sorry for the rant.

If you don't know who their parents are then call LE and explain that 9 year old boy is left unattended and is bullying small children. Should be a wake up call to the parents.

 

[potatoes13]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but according to my husband who is a bit of a car buff, the white car is a 1999-2002 camaro.