GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #6

[Pensfan]

The "middle of the road" was thrown around a lot, but that phrase might just be added color, courtesy of the press. However, it does seem clear that at the point the boys saw the tarp, it was not located in an appropriate place for trash pickup (or perhaps the neighborhood where it was located had already had its trash picked up), since the family felt it was necessary to clean up the "trash."

(Here's something I quoted a few msgs ago: )

"He said he saw a tarp in the middle of an intersection, tightly rapped (sic) with a belt.
'I said, "Well, let’s pick it up, let’s put it in the trash can," you know, because we’re a clean community,' he told the Morning News."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-6-dead-tarp-Saginaw-Texas.html#ixzz2ZFUT5clF

See the crime scene photos. The body was found at the curb. The evidence tent was set up over the scene near the curb.

 

[human]

Some LE said it was the most complicated case he has seen. Was it the chief?

Anyway, who knows what that means.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

It doesn't sound like the perp tried to hide it with trash for pickup. Here's a snippet of interview with the parents of one of the boys who found the body.

"He said he saw a tarp in the middle of an intersection, tightly rapped (sic) with a belt.
'I said, "Well, let’s pick it up, let’s put it in the trash can," you know, because we’re a clean community,' he told the Morning News."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-6-dead-tarp-Saginaw-Texas.html#ixzz2ZFUT5clF

I didnt see any trash cans around there, DID you?

Perhaps the trash came and went after the discovery. And homeowners retrieved there cans and so forth from the curbs. But if the LEOS were there before the trash pick up came, the area was sealed off........

Not implying anything.....just curious, before continuing on.

 

[nothingnew]

I don't think she would have gone willingly with someone who she didn't trust ti some extent. There was a story in the news coverage about her yelling at a neighbor from up in a tree that she wasn't supposed to talk to strangers or something like that.

The story was the neighbor heard her yelling for help and went over to find Alanna stuck up the tree. Alanna told her that a stranger could not be in her YARD so neighbor made a deal to go to door and get permission to help Alanna out of the tree. Everything that I have read is always how social Alanna was and even her grandmother at the funeral said that Alanna had never met a stranger. IMO Alanna knew to protect her HOME from strangers but not herself. Also how is a child yelling for help in their own yard and nobody came out until the neighbor went up to the door? You don't have to answer that part but just think about it.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metr...th-of-young-girl-dumped-on-saginaw-street.ece

 

[human]

Interesting idea about putting the trash into the can, as the boys said. What trash can would hold something that large?

I am really astounded and have been since I read the remark where the kid said it was a clean community and they should go get the trash.

Amazing kudos to whomever influenced that kid.

I pick up trash almost everyday and what it consists of is beer cans and bottles . Teen stuff. I see areas where teens dump their trash all of the time.

Not that other people don't throw trash , but I am pleased with that teen's attitude.

 

[Mitsana]

See the crime scene photos. The body was found at the curb. The evidence tent was set up over the scene near the curb.

We know that the body was located at the curb when LE reached the scene.

One question is whether the perp left the body were LE subsequently found it or whether there is any possibility that the boys had moved the body to the curb from the middle of the street before discovering the body inside it. In that case it would still be at the side of the curb when LE arrived and started taking pictures.

In addition to the middle-of-road vs curb question is the question of whether the perp plunked the body down at the curb in a place where it would have been picked up with other trash during trash day. We know that there was trash out on some streets in the same neighborhood at that time that day. However, it sounded like the family that found the body did not feel like the tarp was in an appropriate place for that to happen (or perhaps the trash had already been picked up on that particular street).

Maybe another possibility is that the tarp was left in an appropriate place and at an appropriate time, but the trash men didn't feel like the tarp item was an appropriate item for that particular day (some communities have different kinds of pickup on different days). So, maybe the perp did plan to dispose of the body that way, but was thwarted by the trash schedule and the tarp was left behind when the trash men picked up the other trash. Then the family felt the need to clean it up.

 

[GingerzMomma]

I am more than ever convinced that they have DNA results that do not match the parents after watching Alittia's press conference. LE got the DNA back in two days confirming the blood they found was hers. It is so much faster now and a child murder with killer unknown is going to take priority.

That is why they did the second canvass and blocked off the streets again imo. If test results matched the parents they would have him or her in jail.

I could be wrong but I don't think so. They may not have said much but their actions after the first day imo show no leads or few leads with the 2nd big canvass happening for some reason and the logical conclusion is their first thought (parents) didn't pan out

I can't even look at another thread or I'll get sucked in. I get the jist of it: who is the POI/suspect?

That said, as everyone, I immediately thought parents/family - esp after she was found before reported. Time went by and I backed off a bit. I'm not completely closed off to it.....but I have no doubt they have DNA back by now. In addition to canvassing the 'hood a week later, billboards, etc.....my last thought was maybe they were going to let her be buried before making arrest and were heavily watching perp in meantime.

Well, that was almost a week ago. Again, if there was reason to strongly suspect family I think they would be a bit more bold in their statements by not, if not have someone arrested. God knows they've been pretty bold with other statements, i.e.: "perfectly safe". Pfft.

 

[matou]

We know that the body was located at the curb when LE reached the scene.

One question is whether the perp left the body were LE subsequently found it or whether there is any possibility that the boys had moved the body to the curb from the middle of the street before discovering the body inside it. In that case it would still be at the side of the curb when LE arrived and started taking pictures.

In addition to the middle-of-road vs curb question is the question of whether the perp plunked the body down at the curb in a place where it would have been picked up with other trash during trash day. We know that there was trash out on some streets in the same neighborhood at that time that day. However, it sounded like the family that found the body did not feel like the tarp was in an appropriate place for that to happen (or perhaps the trash had already been picked up on that particular street).

Maybe another possibility is that the tarp was left in an appropriate place and at an appropriate time, but the trash men didn't feel like the tarp item was an appropriate item for that particular day (some communities have different kinds of pickup on different days). So, maybe the perp did plan to dispose of the body that way, but was thwarted by the trash schedule and the tarp was left behind when the trash men picked up the other trash. Then the family felt the need to clean it up.

That's totally possible. There is a case from Canada where a psycho called Luka Magnotta murdered a man and dismembered him. Some of the body was left for garbage pick up in Montreal and it was not picked up at all (inside of a suitcase). In fact someone noticed the suitcase and opened it up. This obviously helped in this case.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Interesting idea about putting the trash into the can, as the boys said. What trash can would hold something that large?

I am really astounded and have been since I read the remark where the kid said it was a clean community and they should go get the trash.

Amazing kudos to whomever influenced that kid.

I pick up trash almost everyday and what it consists of is beer cans and bottles . Teen stuff. I see areas where teens dump their trash all of the time.

Not that other people don't throw trash , but I am pleased with that teen's attitude.

I just wondered which trashcan the 18 year-old was going to put the tarp in. Which can in front of which house was he going to put it in. And did the LEOS check with the homeowners to see if there trashcan he was going to put in was available for him to do just that...........He said trashcan, lets put it in the trashcan, which trashcan in front of which house is what i wanted to know. and to know that the leos checked to see if in fact that particular trashcan was available for him at that time to do that.

As I said, not implying anything. Just curious.

 

[human]

I have asked but no one has answered so I will try again.

How much traffic is at that intersection?

If there was a huge thing like that in the middle of the road, wouldn't someone pick it up? It would be totally dangerous to motorists. People screeching on their brakes or swerving to avoid it.

So, either there is zero traffic there or it was not in the middle of the road. Or people are incredibly lazy.

 

[gitana1]

IMO, all Alanna's toxicology tests were completed many days ago.

LE took numerous computers from the Gallaghers and checking these is taking a long time.

I think they just don't have the total picture to present yet. Something is missing for them.

If she fell out of a truck going around a turn, her body would have been slung more towards the middle of the street. Instead, Alanna's body was found very close to the curb.

I sincerely believe she was purposefully dumped there due to panic and a lack of time.

regarding her hair, I don't know what made the kid assume it was a girl. He may have seen more than the hair, like the purple underwear for example. I'd ask the same question about her purple underwear that I did about the vehicles. These are details the media has gotten from witnesses and neighbors: NOT from LE, right? LE has said hardly a thing.

ETA: I'm asking where the information about the purple underwear came from, because if it DIDN'T come from LE (Which I doubt. Why would they tell the press that?) Then it came from a witness.

Also, could she have had her nails painted or a bracelet?… I wonder what happened to her shoes.

Anyway, whatever her hair length, and whatever this teen used to assume she was female, as Gitana1 said, none of it is relevant unless someone is trying to implicate the teen who found her. FWIW, longer hair is fairly common in boys now. My 9 year old son is often mistaken for a girl, regardless of how he is dressed. Usually it's older people or people of different cultures/ethnicities (in ethnic restaurants) that assume he is a girl. He gets annoyed, but he gets why. As I said before, we live about 60 miles from Saginaw. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

BBM

Thank you for your concern and keeping track of my posts. I hadn't even noticed that myself.


I'll write it again here, I think the reaction was ODD.

I sure hope I;m not offending you. I get the sense that I am and I really don't mean too! My apologies! You asked a question and I answered it. I went back to look for your post so I could be sure of what I thought I saw and it was gone. I;m not tracking your posts, I;m responding to your direct question. (Since I've been sititng around in different courts all day just waiting, I have time on my hands!!).

But your post is actually still visible on the thread (quoted elsewhere) and it does seem to infer what I thought it inferred and why I responded in the manner I did (giving my opinion that it is illogical that either boy had anything to do with this).

(Color and bolded by me for emphasis).

Excellent question. I totally agree. How about you? Have YOU found a dead body?

Also as to your comments above about people coming into the ER in shock, I look forward to reading more about your first hand experiences in the ER?

I'm thinking that working in the ER gave me a front row seat. Just saying...also I did not mention any of my personal experiences in the ER as civilian standing there.

And lastly, I thank you for going back and re-reading my post so that you can comprehend what I wrote. I did NOT write that I had told someone in the ER that a stranger had died in a car accident.

Just clearing that up.

Like I said earlier, I found my grandpa and I fell to my knees and shook and sobbed. I have also been in the ER on various occasions with my various family members as well as with friends who are single moms and couldn't face it alone (sick kids). One in particular, BTW, acctually fell to her knees outside the hospital room! (They were trying to find a vein for her very sick three year old son and it was horrible. Couldn't do it forever. She kept very calm and just tried to be there for the baby but the moment it was over she ran outside and fell to her knees, crying).

In addition, I have had various calls to come quick, that someone is ill and have had to dash over to the hospital.

That's my experience.

Ironically, I just heard John Carroll on the radio as I was driving from one court to another a little while ago, talking about the moment his baby girl who, at several months old, still not walking, was diagnosed with a form of spina bifida. He said he had to grab the wall to prevent himself from falling to the ground.

But I think that people may be less likely to react that way in the hospital than they would to something totally unexpected. The context of the hospital is that bad news may come. That has nothing to do with denial. The context makes sudden shock probably a bit less likely than a situation elsewhere, when something happens suddenly and there is no time to process.

In any event, falling to one's knees is a universally recognized reaction to shock and grief, actually:

Safe but shocked: A young woman falls to her knees in the city centre of Van

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eath-toll-rises-270-killed-1-300-injured.html

SHE wailed and wailed. And wailed. Fatima Aqhlaqi fell to her knees and let go a scream from somewhere deep beneath, showing her grief at the death of her brother-in-law Farhan Khaligy.http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/screams-of-grief-for-dead-and-lost/story-e6freuy9-1226006576717


BUENOS AIRES, Argentina &#8212; A mother in Argentina says she fell to her knees in shock after finding her baby alive in a coffin in the morgue nearly 12 hours after the girl had been declared dead.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/argentina-baby-alive-morgue_n_1417041.html

The image of the burned, empty building was in stark contrast to the town&#8217;s packed gymnasium where relatives of the victims gathered late on Sunday to mourn after the mortuary became overwhelmed with bodies.
One woman fell to her knees in grief at the coffin of a relative, while others waited to identify their loved ones.http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...side-the-brazil-nightclub-where-233-died?lite


The mother of a 13-month-old toddler who died allegedly at the hands of his father fell to her knees in grief Friday morning after learning the accused killer was given a bond. Toni Brown&#8217;s tearful wails echoed in the hallway on the second floor of the Clayton County Courthouse. Relatives surrounded Brown as she struggled to make sense of Chief Magistrate Daphne Walker&#8217;s ruling to set a $165,000 bond for defendant Ryan Russell Edwards.http://www.news-daily.com/news/2012/jun/22/man-gets-bond-babys-death/

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2283450.htm

I frankly can't think of much that is more tragic than unexpectedly finding a dead baby in the street. People would react in various ways. Some may vomit, some panic and run, some call 911 immediately, some might fall to their knees and sob. I think the age and the expectation of a teen in such a situation may have something to do with how he might react.

I just don't find this reaction of a young teen to such a gruesome and horrific find as remotely odd or abnormal. He must have been filled with shock and grief at finding a baby girl where he expected to find trash.

 

[nothingnew]

I have asked but no one has answered so I will try again.

How much traffic is at that intersection?

If there was a huge thing like that in the middle of the road, wouldn't someone pick it up? It would be totally dangerous to motorists. People screeching on their brakes or swerving to avoid it.

So, either there is zero traffic there or it was not in the middle of the road. Or people are incredibly lazy.

From everything I have read it is a low traffic area and pretty much used by people that live in that neighborhood. She was found around 7:30 so the traffic would have been less than say 7-8 in the morning or 5-6 in the evening.

 

[Mitsana]

I just wondered which trashcan the 18 year-old was going to put the tarp in. Which can in front of which house was he going to put it in. And did the LEOS check with the homeowners to see if there trashcan he was going to put in was available for him to do just that...........He said trashcan, lets put it in the trashcan, which trashcan in front of which house is what i wanted to know. and to know that the leos checked to see if in fact that particular trashcan was available for him at that time to do that.

As I said, not implying anything. Just curious.

I don't know where the trash can was at the time the parent (presumably father) made the suggestion. When I first read that quote, I thought that it was a slightly odd suggestion to make, since most people use most of the volume of their trash cans. Even if the trash had just been picked up, you would need the trash can to be available for the trash you would throw away before the next pickup. Even if the tarp were empty, you'd think it would take up a considerable amount of the volume of a trash can.

But, upon reflection, I decided the boy may have said something the along the lines of seeing some trash in the road, and the father without seeing it, may have assumed it was a lot smaller, so he told his son to put it in the trash can. I don't think it matters where the trash can was located. It might at that point have been at the curb waiting to be picked up but not completely full, or instead wherever they normally keep their trash cans.

 

[gitana1]

It doesn't sound like the witness saw the purple underwear at that point:

'At first, I just thought it was some rubber stuff at first, and then I got a closer look and all I saw was a bag and I saw some hair sticking out and so, I was like, "Oh my God! It’s a girl!"' he said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-6-dead-tarp-Saginaw-Texas.html#ixzz2ZFQYAnbR
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I just listened to the 911 call again and the man who called said his kids opened up the bag and that he himself saw her legs "and everything". So I think the kids saw Alanna's whole body.

He also stated she was in a black trash bag and it sounded to me that he actually said there was a belt around her face, which I never heard before!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2354825/Alanna-Gallagher-6-dead-tarp-Saginaw-Texas.html

I have asked but no one has answered so I will try again.

How much traffic is at that intersection?

If there was a huge thing like that in the middle of the road, wouldn't someone pick it up? It would be totally dangerous to motorists. People screeching on their brakes or swerving to avoid it.

So, either there is zero traffic there or it was not in the middle of the road. Or people are incredibly lazy.

This aerial image shows the tarp where the girl's body was found, lower right corner, in the middle of a quiet intersection

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2354825/Alanna-Gallagher-6-dead-tarp-Saginaw-Texas.html

 

[Wondergirl]

AND:

The days when families 'protect their own' need to be OVER. In my humble opinion MORE HARM has been committed by families AND WIVES IN PARTICULAR who know, KNOW that a family member is sick and due to shame or whatever misguided @#$$%^ they have, they decide to sweep it under the rug and not seek help. Tell no one.

I want to see laws that say if you know you have a family member capable of this and they commit a crime then you face the law as well.


Just last week I had a friend approach me because the in-laws were INSISTING on a sleep over with grandpa and grandma but this friend of mine KNEW that grandpa had been a molester in the past.

WHAT THE :stormingmad: WHHYYYYYYYYYY do families CATER to these sick individuals????? Why do the wives continue to look the other way?

Good post.

BBM: Let's not forget the MOTHERS who look the other way.

JMO

 

[Pensfan]

We know that the body was located at the curb when LE reached the scene.

One question is whether the perp left the body were LE subsequently found it or whether there is any possibility that the boys had moved the body to the curb from the middle of the street before discovering the body inside it. In that case it would still be at the side of the curb when LE arrived and started taking pictures.

In addition to the middle-of-road vs curb question is the question of whether the perp plunked the body down at the curb in a place where it would have been picked up with other trash during trash day. We know that there was trash out on some streets in the same neighborhood at that time that day. However, it sounded like the family that found the body did not feel like the tarp was in an appropriate place for that to happen (or perhaps the trash had already been picked up on that particular street).

Maybe another possibility is that the tarp was left in an appropriate place and at an appropriate time, but the trash men didn't feel like the tarp item was an appropriate item for that particular day (some communities have different kinds of pickup on different days). So, maybe the perp did plan to dispose of the body that way, but was thwarted by the trash schedule and the tarp was left behind when the trash men picked up the other trash. Then the family felt the need to clean it up.

There are videos of the mom (of the boy) on earlier threads and youtube. In the longer interview of the mom, she stated that her son went to remove the "trash bag". When he realized that there was something very heavy in it, he opened it (amount of opening is unknown). He saw a "baby girl". He went to tell his mom. She did not state her son drug the "trash bag" to the curb.

There is an orange cone in some of the crime scene photos that is actually in the middle of the road. This cone marks an object that was found by LE after they arrived on the scene. (See scanner downstairs.) It is unknown if this object is related to Alanna's death.

 

[human]

Hm. The term " middle of a quiet intersection" is sure not what the pic posted by gitana shows.

That is not in the intersection, to me.

So that is perhaps a problem of wording.

More dramatic than saying it was by the curb

 

[gitana1]

Your examples are very helpful...... they show reactions of those related to the victims........here we have a neighborhood kid not a relative that reacted in a way a relative would about a love one such as your examples show..........

True, my examples are all people reacting to something sudden related to an actual relative. But have we become so cold and emotionless as a society that we expect young men or anyone else for that matter not to react with an intense level of shock and grief at finding a dead little girl on their street? Regardless of whether or not she is related?
Is the reaction of the two young neighbors who posted a casual youtube video about Alanna's body more in line with what we as a society now expect?

I think the reaction of this young man tells a lot about his character, how he is not desensitized and how he at least, still sees a little girl as a precious gift and not an item to be thrown away like trash. His reaction moved me, frankly. I see nothing odd about it and unless someone is accusing him, I see no more reason to scrutinize this poor kid so I think I probably should step away from the conversation for now!

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I don't know where the trash can was at the time the parent (presumably father) made the suggestion. When I first read that quote, I thought that it was a slightly odd suggestion to make, since most people use most of the volume of their trash cans. Even if the trash had just been picked up, you would need the trash can to be available for the trash you would throw away before the next pickup. Even if the tarp were empty, you'd think it would take up a considerable amount of the volume of a trash can.

But, upon reflection, I decided the boy may have said something the along the lines of seeing some trash in the road, and the father without seeing it, may have assumed it was a lot smaller, so he told his son to put it in the trash can. I don't think it matters where the trash can was located. It might at that point have been at the curb waiting to be picked up but not completely full, or instead wherever they normally keep their trash cans.

I just have a hard time with the slipping out of a vehicle........You take and kill a child and before you get a mile and a half away NOT from the neighborhood, but from where she lived you loose her because she fell out of the vehicle........I am just finding it really hard to imagine that occurring. Though it could have happened just like that I don't know.......I think she was killed right around there and then left by the curb....I don't think she was being transported in a vehicle........A mile away from home, which is not far at all. You could walk that in 4 or 5 minutes i believe. yes.

 

[Pensfan]

I just have a hard time with the slipping out of a vehicle........You take and kill a child and before you get a mile and a half away NOT from the neighborhood, but from where she lived you loose her because she fell out of the vehicle........I am just finding it really hard to imagine that occurring. Though it could have happened just like that I don't know.......I think she was killed right around there and then left by the curb....I don't think she was being transported in a vehicle........A mile away from home, which is not far at all. You could walk that in 4 or 5 minutes i believe. yes.

A five-minute mile is a magnificent time for a very experienced runner.