TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

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NaNaRosebud said:
I think I get what you are trying to say Jeana. I have had depression in my family. If that person decided to kill someone because he/she was depressed, that does not give them the excuse to kill, imo.


I think that people can be insane with greed, insane with jealousy, insane with passion, insane with grief, or insane with any human emotion there is. Just because someone is overcome with that emotion/feeling, doesn't give them a pass to kill someone. As you can probably tell, I'm not big on the "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense.

Anyone who decides to kill someone, especially one who plans the event, is insane. AY clearly planned when and how to kill her children. She even had a "run through/rehersal" once, IIRC.

At the point/split second that someone kills someone, they are insane, because sane people don't kill other people unless they are threatened with being killed themselves.

Should we give the terrorist the insanity by religion defense? How about a child killer who rapes and kills a precious child? Should they be given an insanity defense because someone clearly has to be insane to be that evil.

IF AY is put into a mental hospital and then funds run out for that hospital, will she be released onto society so that she can be insane once more and do harm to people?

She killed her kids. She knew what she was doing at the time. She planned it. She practiced it. She called the cops after.


If Andrea Yates doesn't qualify for the insanity defense then IMO, it should be done away with.

There was years of documented PROOF of her mental illness. Rusty had been told that having more children would only make it worse.

Everyone knows she killed them and how she carried it out. A person can be mentally ill and still function at some level. No one here is saying to give her a free pass, let her out on the streets to start life over. She's as sick as a person ravaged with cancer and needs the chance to become as healthy as possible.

JMO
 
Jeana (DP) said:
There's a BIG difference between an "excuse" and an explanation. Everyone around Andrea knew that she was a danger to herself and to those kids. She was screaming out for help like no one I'd ever heard of. She was let down by her family and by her doctors and so were those children. The brain is a very complex thing. Too complex for me to understand certainly. I'm not soft on criminals and this is the FIRST person that I've EVER in my entire life said deserved to be not guilty by reason of insanity. Does that mean she gets a free pass? Hell no. But she needs to be in a hospital for the rest of her lift NOT a prison. THAT, darlin, should be the only difference in her life sentence, in my opinion.


:clap: You said it Jeanna, ITA.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
There's a BIG difference between an "excuse" and an explanation. Everyone around Andrea knew that she was a danger to herself and to those kids. She was screaming out for help like no one I'd ever heard of. She was let down by her family and by her doctors and so were those children. The brain is a very complex thing. Too complex for me to understand certainly. I'm not soft on criminals and this is the FIRST person that I've EVER in my entire life said deserved to be not guilty by reason of insanity. Does that mean she gets a free pass? Hell no. But she needs to be in a hospital for the rest of her lift NOT a prison. THAT, darlin, should be the only difference in her life sentence, in my opinion.



Well said Jeana.... if ever there was a person insane, it is/was Andrea Yates. One look at her when all this occured would tell you all was not 'right ' with her.
 
Yates will move to state mental hospital soon 12/19/05

Snips...

Yates' two murder convictions were overturned by an appeals court earlier this year because of false expert testimony at her 2002 trial.

Prosecutor Joe Owmby said today that Yates will be moved to the Rusk State Hospital, less than a half-mile away from the Skyview prison, a psychiatric unit where she's been jailed for nearly three years.

Yates' attorney, George Parnham, who has worked for months to get Yates into a state mental hospital, said he visited Yates twice last week to help prepare her for the move. While he wouldn't provide details on those discussions, Parnham said Yates is scared about the transition.

More at link--http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3535655.html
 
Only4Justice said:
Idaho Mom - During the first trial of Andrea Yates, I felt the same as you...that she deserved prison for what she did. She committed the most reprehensible crime.

After my anger subsided, and I thought it over and read various things about Andrea and her past, I changed my mind.

I don't want her ever to live in a free society again, but I think if anyone fits into the "insanity defense", it is Andrea Yates. If she isn't insane, I don't know who is.

IMO

I don't ever waNT her to live freely again, either. I have never been able to get past the fact that she knew enough that what she did was wrong to call 911. Knowledge of guilt=not criminally insane, legally. She's insane, just not CRIMINALLY insane, IMO.

I have a dear friend who was diagnoised as bi-polar, thankfully she has a loving spouse who made sure she and her children were safe. She begged her husband not to leave her alone with the children because she was afraid that she might "use the knives" on them. He took her seriously and she was never alone with the children. She is stable today, on her meds and doing well, thanks to a husband who loved her, believed her and took care of her. That said, I must say, I believe Randy was MORE guilty than Andrea. I wish he would have been held accountable.
 
bakerprune64 said:
And never be let out of said hospital.

That's a given. I think though she'd be more of a danger to herself than anyone else so it wouldn't the citizens of Texas that would have to fear her.
 
She has really aged a lot since her trial. (Picture from CNN link posted by OnlyForJustice.) I can't even explain how I feel about what Andrea did to her children, but I do feel she was, and probably still is, ill. I don't think she should be in prison, but I do think she should be in a mental hospital, probably for as long as she lives.

I think Rusty should be locked up in prison. I feel he is probably more responsible for what happened to the children than Andrea is. She is ill, he is an A$$. IMO
 
Well, at least it looks as if she has gained some weight. She had gotten mighty scrawny.
 
Jean said:
She has really aged a lot since her trial. (Picture from CNN link posted by OnlyForJustice.) I can't even explain how I feel about what Andrea did to her children, but I do feel she was, and probably still is, ill. I don't think she should be in prison, but I do think she should be in a mental hospital, probably for as long as she lives.

I think Rusty should be locked up in prison. I feel he is probably more responsible for what happened to the children than Andrea is. She is ill, he is an A$$. IMO
I have thought this since the day it happened :banghead:
 
I just started reading a book about her and the crimes, etc. The first part of the book discusses the drownings and that had me in tears. How awful for those poor kids - especially Noah, the last one to die.

The part I'm on now is discussing her mental illness. This is one sick chick. She has had serious illness since shortly after her 4th child was born - all documented.

I truly believe she was and is a very sick person. I don't believe she should be in jail - but in a mental hospital - for the rest of her life. She responded well to the medication - when she took it - and that needs to be continuously monitored to keep her well.

This case just breaks my heart. I am angry at her louse of an ex-husband for leaving her alone with the kids after her telling him that she had thoughts of hurting them. And, I'm angry with her doctor who took her off her medication shortly before the murders because after spending 5 minutes with her and deciding she was doing fine.

I didn't follow this case too much when it happened as it was very difficult for me. But, reading about now, I wonder (if anyone can answer) just how much they questioned her treating doctor? He took her off her medication and that was to be done VERY gradually - over several weeks time. He told her to stop it all at once. I'm just getting to this part in the book and it fascinates me. I wonder if she had gradually discontinued those drugs if it would have made a difference in her poor childrens lives.
 
I'm curious if Rusty was there today. I know they're divorced, but no mention of him in any articles. Anyone know?
 
This is the most awful story. Awful for every single person involved, especially those little kids. Everyone in Andrea's family dumped on her, too, not just Rusty, she was also caring for an elderly adult with Alzheimers despite her obvious disability.

In a very small way I feel sorry for Rusty too, although he seems very shallow and immature. All he wanted was what a lot of men want - a stay at home wife, who will love and care for his kids while he works and brings home good money.

And now all his kids are drowned.

I don't think he's evil, he was just unprepared in life to deal with a wife who became insane while there were babies in the house.
 
HOUSTON, Jan. 9, 2006(AP) Andrea Yates pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity Monday in the drowning deaths of her children. It was Yates' first court appearance since her 2002 capital murder convictions were overturned.

State District Judge Belinda Hill accepted the plea and set a March 20 trial date.

Yates, who wore an oversized orange jail jumpsuit, appeared to have gained weight since her last appearance before Hill when the judge sentenced Yates to life in prison.
Prosecutors and Yates' attorney, George Parnham, said they are still negotiating a plea deal, but both sides said they've agreed not to discuss them publicly and are preparing for a retrial.

"We don't have an agreement and until there is some agreement, there is no agreement," Prosecutor Joe Owmby said Monday outside the Harris County courthouse.

Owmby noted last week that Yates would have to plead guilty to prompt discussions of how long or where should we be confined. Parnham wants Yates to be housed in a mental hospital instead of prison.

Parnham said, however, that he won't consider any scenario under which Yates must plead guilty in order to get the mental health care she desires.

"There will be no guilty plea," he said. "There are other avenues that can be explored, but that goes into the type of negotiations ... I don't want to break my bond with prosecutors about talking about plea discussions."

Parnham says Yates' mental health care is nonnegotiable.
Yates, 41, may remain in the custody of the Harris County Sheriff's Department until she is retried. She is currently in the Harris County Jail, where mental health experts keep a close watch over her, Parnham said.

Parnham, however, said he would try this week to get a bond set for Yates that would allow her to be housed at the Rusk State Hospital until her trial. Until last week, Yates had been imprisoned at East Texas' Skyview Prison Unit, a psychiatric prison.

An earlier attempt to get Yates transferred to the state hospital failed.

"That is a secure mental health facility," Parnham said. "She already has a doctor assigned to her at Rusk. The administrator has already approved Andrea's acceptance into that mental health facility. Everyone acknowledges that that is where Andrea can receive the best mental health care this state can offer."
To prove insanity in Texas, a defendant must prove she suffered from a severe mental disease or defect and did not know her actions were wrong.

During Yates' original trial, psychiatrists testified she suffered from schizophrenia and postpartum depression, but defense and prosecution expert witnesses disagreed over the severity of Yates' illness and whether it prevented her from knowing that drowning the children was wrong.
more at link:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/09/national/main1191592.shtml
 
KatherineQ said:
This is the most awful story. Awful for every single person involved, especially those little kids. Everyone in Andrea's family dumped on her, too, not just Rusty, she was also caring for an elderly adult with Alzheimers despite her obvious disability.

In a very small way I feel sorry for Rusty too, although he seems very shallow and immature. All he wanted was what a lot of men want - a stay at home wife, who will love and care for his kids while he works and brings home good money.

And now all his kids are drowned.

I don't think he's evil, he was just unprepared in life to deal with a wife who became insane while there were babies in the house.

She had also been helping with her father before he died. She took his death very hard.
 
If Yates wasn't legally insane - no one ever is. Rusty and the stupid Doctor bear the real responsibility - they knew she was insane, and left her as the responsible and only adult around the children! Took her off drugs cold turkey when any doctor would know that this would be bad! Rusty was there day in day out, and didn't even care enough to not get Andrea pregnant again, when he knew it would push her further over the edge!

I really think he kinda wanted her to go over the edge, so he could find another wife who he could get more use out of. I'm sure he never thought what would happen, nor planned for that to happen, but he was so callous, so much doing every last thing possible to drive Andrea further over the edge, even when being told exactly what would happen, that it doesn't seem accidental to me.
 
Details - I just don't get the impression that he knew she was insane. I think he was like Darren (both Darrens) of Bewitched, or other male fictional characters of the late 50's. He wanted to earn a good living, and come home to a wife and a hot meal and healthy children at night.

He's about the most shallow man I've ever seen. Listening to him, there's clearly something wrong with him. He doesn't get it.

He was like, aligning the coffins, and saying some paragraph about each child, he doesn't get it at all. He's about a quarter inch deep.

But I don't think he's to blame, or he knew she was insane, or he can be held responsible. He's just a very very shallow man, and she went insane. Suddenly all his children were dead while he was at work.
 
I just can't say what I want to about him.Something is so sleazy. I know she killed her babies. I wish life was one,two,three.
 
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