TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[Becba]

IMO It is clear she is mentally ill and insane at the time of the killings. I have read she was still asking her husband why he did not bring the children to visit at the time he sought divorce.

Due to mental illness her mother and those that loved her hope she will have some kind of life even if it is to spend the rest of it in a hospital. No one is going to ever let her go free. She is not even stable in prison. Send her where she should be, a mental hospital.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Did Neil Entwhistle have a long history of mental illness that was well documented like Andrea's was? Was he in the stages of deep psychosis/catatonic like Andrea was? Was he taken off his antipsychotic meds abruptly like Andrea was? Was he left to care for his child all day long while hallucinating like Andrea was? Was any of his meds 3 times the highest dosage that should have been prescribed as Andrea was?

I really doubt that Andrea messed and pissed her pants, didn't bathe herself, self mutilated, yanked her hair out all for the fun of it.

But then again there are just some folks who won't believe that mental illness is real so there isn't really any point of my going over this and it will be the last time I do.

BTW, none of the psychiatrists for the defense or the prosecution doubt that Andrea was mentally ill at the time of the children's murders.

I was not even gonna comment on this anymore, but when I read this I just had to say.....I remember looking at the photo's of Neil Entwhistle and baby Lillian not too long ago, and all I saw in the picture was him holding Lillian and looking at her with such love, so it seemed to me. Is he insane, or just an evil man. Do we look at killers of children different when the killer is the mother, versus the Father. Dont bring up Susan Smith, we all know she was just evil!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm sorry, are you slow?

First of all, THAT was uncalled for and rude! There have been times during all this posting that I have felt like getting rude with someone and I have stopped myself from doing that because I am a grown woman and I am able to express my thoughts and feelings without attempting to put people down.
Perhaps what you said made no sense, not only to me but to others as well.

THAT being said- *I* am mentally ill.. *I* have been psychotic, *I* have heard voices in my head telling me to do bad, bad things! *I* have been INSANE... so insane I and my loved ones thought I'd never "snap out of it". Luckily, I did! Thank GOD for the mental health professionals!

And- No, I didn't kill my child, wildangel, want to know why? because when I cried out for help saying "oh my God, I think I could hurt my precious child" I and other people knew I was sick and made sure I got the help I needed... pronto!

Want to be my judge and jury too, wildangel? Should I die because I am mentally ill as well?

 

[OneLostGrl]

What, so she has food, a bed, friends, visitors, the internet, a myspace & chat, *advertiser censored*...what did her children get, all 5 of them? It's not punishment enough:furious:

You obviously know nothing about forensic mental health hospitals- Hospitals for the criminally insane.

Yes, you are fed, but your fed in prison also. Trust me the food is about the same in both places.

Of course you are given a bed- one about as equal to the one you'd get in prison. I assure you, the beds are not comfy.

Sure, you could make friends with other patients but the friends you'd make there are much less "safe" then the ones you'd make in prison. Insane people are no fun to be around!

Yes, you are allowed visitors but just like in prison there is no physical contact allowed.

No, The internet is not available to patients in a mental hospital.

 

[bbmcrae]

"Originally Posted by ~wildangel~
Onelostgirl, I don't care how many psyciatrists she saw, since it is a practice. Meaning it is not a profession and is not perfected. It's not a perfect method. A profesion is a way of doing something that's perfected...like pipes holding water, it's a fact that pipes hold water, therfore being a pipefitter is a profession, the pipe is fit together to hold water, perfectly. You don't PRACTICE something and call it 100% assured!"

I think you may be getting confused by the word practice here. It has several definitions, like many English words. In terms of the medical profession, it is referring to the exercise of one's business or profession. Psychiatry is a rigourous, difficult and complex form of medicine. It's not some goofball saying "what the hell, let's give it a shot" or whatever you are implying by the whole water pipe analogy. Which made my head hurt, btw. Maybe I need a psychiatrist...or you may want to re-read what you wrote...

 

[cathieq]

Andrea Yates is not a topic I talk about and rarely read about (out of choice). I only have one comment I'd like to make: Her husband should be held responsible for his children's deaths, too...He was/isn't mentally challenged. He lived in the house with her. Just for turning a "blind" eye to the goings-on and leaving his children alone with his wife who had major problems makes him a "participant".

Now I'll go back to my little corner and steam some.

 

[Sally]

I get that you're mad about the children - we all are - but if you don't think she's living in hell knowing what she did, I don't know what to tell you.

I think it's questionable whether she is "living in hell" or not. She killed her children to save them remember?

This debate about insanity and murder reminds of Charles Manson who truly is insane, technically didn't murder anyone, yet is in prison. Exactly where he belongs. Why is Andrea any different? She heard voices telling her what to do. So did Chuck.

 

[SewingDeb]

Cathieq,

I agree with you. The Schlosser husband (baby's arms cut off) was the same way. How can someone live with a person that mentally ill and not expect something terrible to happen? It's not like the mental illness was a secret for Andrea or Mrs. Schlosser. It was obvious that the children were not safe in their care, yet their husbands expected them to take care of them like any normal mother would.

 

[Jules]

I think it's questionable whether she is "living in hell" or not. She killed her children to save them remember?

This debate about insanity and murder reminds of Charles Manson who truly is insane, technically didn't murder anyone, yet is in prison. Exactly where he belongs. Why is Andrea any different? She heard voices telling her what to do. So did Chuck.

The fact that Andrea stops taking her medicine once she gets better and remembers the horror of what she's done leads be to believe that, while she's medicated, she's living in pure hell.

Charles Manson is not insane - never has been. In fact, he's extremely smart. Chuck heard no voices in his head. He dreamed up a way for him to get his message across through others. He controlled their lives through drugs and his 'power' over them.

 

[Jules]

Andrea Yates is not a topic I talk about and rarely read about (out of choice). I only have one comment I'd like to make: Her husband should be held responsible for his children's deaths, too...He was/isn't mentally challenged. He lived in the house with her. Just for turning a "blind" eye to the goings-on and leaving his children alone with his wife who had major problems makes him a "participant".

Now I'll go back to my little corner and steam some.

cathieq, I agree with you about Rusty; however, it's not that he turned a 'blind' eye, he chose to do little about what he was seeing. I don't think he, or many for that matter, had any idea HOW to help her and thought she'd get better on her own. He did take her to doctors, she was treated, etc.

The two I feel are the most responsible, not only for Andrea but the kids, were Rusty and Andrea's doctor. Those are the two that should be sitting in prison. Rusty for not doing everything in his power to help her and her doctor for advising her to quit taking her meds cold turkey.

I will never understand why either was not charged with neglect.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The fact that Andrea stops taking her medicine once she gets better and remembers the horror of what she's done leads be to believe that, while she's medicated, she's living in pure hell.

Charles Manson is not insane - never has been. In fact, he's extremely smart. Chuck heard no voices in his head. He dreamed up a way for him to get his message across through others. He controlled their lives through drugs and his 'power' over them.

I'm far from being an expert, but I think typing the word "insane" and expecting that to describe any person with mental issues is a dangerous practice. There are many different types of "insanity" and the type of mental illness, if any, that Charles Manson my experience, is NOT necessarily the same type that Andrea Yates is dealing with.

 

[Jules]

I'm far from being an expert, but I think typing the word "insane" and expecting that to describe any person with mental issues is a dangerous practice. There are many different types of "insanity" and the type of mental illness, if any, that Charles Manson my experience, is NOT necessarily the same type that Andrea Yates is dealing with.

Precisely. They are opposites to the extreme.

In my research of Manson back in my criminal psych classes, he was and has never been labeled "insane."

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Precisely. They are opposites to the extreme.

In my research of Manson back in my criminal psych classes, he was and has never been labeled "insane."

LOL I think the dude definately has some "issues," but I'd never put him in the same category as Yates. The mixture of someone whose already dealing with some pretty serious mental issues, combined with the extreme hormonal swings that child birth, NUMEROUS incidences of child birth, is something that Mason (thank God) will never experience.

 

[bbmcrae]

"Insanity" here is really a legal definition. Whether she was capable of perceiving right from wrong. It's debatable, certainly, but I think since she called the husband, waited for the cops, and made no effort to cover her crime, she could be considered insane. From a court's point of view. IMO.

Not that I want her ever to walk free. Or be able to have more kids. And I wuld hardly weep if she spent the rest of her life back in prison.

(And yeah, I agree about Rusty. He seems like a selfish S.O.B. who fueled this situation. Pushing your mentally ill to keep having kids and leaving her at home with them is like leaving a loaded gun lying around.)

Charles Manson is a psychopath. But I think he exhibited a clear understanding that what he was doing was wrong. Maybe that's why he had others do it for him. So I think he is probably sane, legally. Even if he is a frothing loon every time he gets on camera.

Btw-I looked over the earlier posts made here about Andrea and the accusations of other posters saying he's innocent, her supposed "MySpace", her "cable TV", the whole "practice" vs."perfect" debate and realized the irony of discussing the mental health profession any further. I would encourage any other posters to not engage any more irrational arguments made here.

 

[bugs]

What, so she has food, a bed, friends, visitors, the internet, a myspace & chat, *advertiser censored*...what did her children get, all 5 of them? It's not punishment enough:furious:

Okay that is wierd. I can just see Andrea looking at *advertiser censored*, having a myspace and searching the internet :doh: . Although, I guarantee Rusty Boy is doing all this. Andrea is medicated and trying to function as a human.

I pray the best for Andrea. She never deserves to go back to prison!!

 

[Jules]

"Insanity" here is really a legal definition. Whether she was capable of perceiving right from wrong. It's debatable, certainly, but I think since she called the husband, waited for the cops, and made no effort to cover her crime, she could be considered insane. From a court's point of view. IMO.

Not that I want her ever to walk free. Or be able to have more kids. And I wuld hardly weep if she spent the rest of her life back in prison.

(And yeah, I agree about Rusty. He seems like a selfish S.O.B. who fueled this situation. Pushing your mentally ill to keep having kids and leaving her at home with them is like leaving a loaded gun lying around.)

Charles Manson is a psychopath. But I think he exhibited a clear understanding that what he was doing was wrong. Maybe that's why he had others do it for him. So I think he is probably sane, legally. Even if he is a frothing loon every time he gets on camera.

Btw-I looked over the earlier posts made here about Andrea and the accusations of other posters saying he's innocent, her supposed "MySpace", her "cable TV", the whole "practice" vs."perfect" debate and realized the irony of discussing the mental health profession any further. I would encourage any other posters to not engage any more irrational arguments made here.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Very wise post - on all accounts. I completely agree.

Regarding Manson, his IQ has been tested many times and ranges from 109-130, so he has always been considered 'sane.' However, he's been institutionalized so many times he knows how to play the game.

CrimeLibrary.com has some great info on Manson and his followers.

 

[Jules]

LOL I think the dude definately has some "issues," but I'd never put him in the same category as Yates.

"Issues" is putting it mildly!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Okay that is wierd. I can just see Andrea looking at *advertiser censored*, having a myspace and searching the internet :doh: . Although, I guarantee Rusty Boy is doing all this. Andrea is medicated and trying to function as a human.

I pray the best for Andrea. She never deserves to go back to prison!!

Yeah, all of the mental patients in prison have MySpace pages! :slap: LOL I can kind of understand what people's problem is with her being in a mental hospital and not in the "prison" mental hospital. They're worried one day some doctors and a judge are going to get together and say that she's no longer a danger to herself or society and should be allowed to get out of the hospital. I can understand that. Mental illness scares the daylights out of me and mental people are unpredictable. No one will ever say that they'll "never" do something again.

The deal is though, that the law exists on the books and a defendant has the right to pursue that avenue. I personally think her mental ilness was the ONLY reason that the murders happened and I think people get hung up on the "did she know right from wrong" thing.

I may know that my son fighting in school is "wrong," but I'm here to tell you that if some kid comes up to him and bashes him in the face, I'm all for him creaming the dude.

What Andrea did, whether anyone else agrees with it or not, she felt she needed to do for her childrens IMMORTAL souls. Now, personally, I've never had to deal with that level of intenseness with regard to my children, so I don't know how I would act. I tend to think that if I honestly in my heart and soul believed that something I needed to do would save them from the burning pits of hell, I'd probably do it.

 

[Maybe So]

How does anyone know what Andrea Yates felt? I don't understand how anyone can claim she thought she was saving their immortal souls. Just because she says that is what she was thinking doesn't make it the truth. And if she had those thoughts I believe she still knew that it was wrong and I firmly believe she was capable of stopping herself that day.

How does anyone know she is living through hell? I mean I would think she was but I certainly don't know that she is.

There is no basis in her religion for her to believe killing her children would save their souls. If she was so far gone that she believed that why didn't she run that idea past her husband? Why didn't she tell Rusty "God told me to kill the kids because I am such a bad mother...what do you think...should we do what god says?" If she was so convinced that it was the right thing to do then she should have been delusional enough to think Rusty would agree. No, she knew no one would agree with what she was going to do...because she knew it was wrong...and that's why she waited for an oportunity.

Just because a whacked out person thinks they have a good reason to kill others doesn't excuse them from the killing that they do. She is dangerous and deranged, and yes she is most likely suffering. But so are lots of other mentally ill murderers, mentally ill molestors, etc etc etc I don't see anyone feeling sorry for them.

JMHO

 

[Jeana (DP)]

How does anyone know what Andrea Yates felt? I don't understand how anyone can claim she thought she was saving their immortal souls. Just because she says that is what she was thinking doesn't make it the truth. And if she had those thoughts I believe she still knew that it was wrong and I firmly believe she was capable of stopping herself that day.

How does anyone know she is living through hell? I mean I would think she was but I certainly don't know that she is.

There is no basis in her religion for her to believe killing her children would save their souls. If she was so far gone that she believed that why didn't she run that idea past her husband? Why didn't she tell Rusty "God told me to kill the kids because I am such a bad mother...what do you think...should we do what god says?" If she was so convinced that it was the right thing to do then she should have been delusional enough to think Rusty would agree. No, she knew no one would agree with what she was going to do...because she knew it was wrong...and that's why she waited for an oportunity.

Just because a whacked out person thinks they have a good reason to kill others doesn't excuse them from the killing that they do. She is dangerous and deranged, and yes she is most likely suffering. But so are lots of other mentally ill murderers, mentally ill molestors, etc etc etc I don't see anyone feeling sorry for them.

JMHO

So, she's going to "confess" to killing her kids, but lie about the reason for doing so? How much sense does that make to you?

She didn't tell Rusty or anyone else because they would have stopped her, right? How could she save their souls if someone stopped her????????

Once again the word "excuse" seems to be a source of confusion. There is no "excuse" for killing someone, but there are "reasons" that people do it. Its a legal term called "motive." Andrea told us her's. If you don't believe her, then all I can say is that's your right. I guess her attorney would be glad that you're not on her jury.