TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[tezi]

Jeana, I feel that Andrea Yates belongs in a secure mental facility, not prison. I also feel like if her last doctor (Dr. Saeed) had not misdiagonosed her, those kids would be alive today. Andrea was diagnosed in jail as being Bi-Polar, not just depressed. And that doctor had no clue about the medicine he was prescribing her, IMO. According to the book, The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates," taking her Haldol away left her on straight "rocket fuel," which gave her the extra strength she seemed to have while drowning her children. She was mentally ill, no doubt. But, should she be in prison because she had and has a mental illness that everyone but the prison doctor misdiagnosed, IMO, NO! I don't think she is trying to get out of her punishment, just the opposite, she knows what she did.


This case is really a hot button issue for me. I was misdiagnosed just like Andrea Yates was. It took a suicide attempt by me (and I almost died), before the doctor really listened to me. Now, I know I am Bi-Polar and I need to take three different medications for the illness to keep me from going off of the deep end. One of the medications is for my anxiety disorder. I realize now I have to stay on all of medications in order to function. I still have bad days, even bad weeks, but at least I know that I can call the doctor and explain what is wrong, and the doctor actually listens to me. If only Andrea Yates hadn't been misdiagnosed.....I really think her doctor should bear some responsibility for what has happened.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I feel that Andrea Yates belongs in a secure mental facility, not prison. I also feel like if her last doctor (Dr. Saeed) had not misdiagonosed her, those kids would be alive today. Andrea was diagnosed in jail as being Bi-Polar, not just depressed. And that doctor had no clue about the medicine he was prescribing her, IMO. According to the book, The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates," taking her Haldol away left her on straight "rocket fuel," which gave her the extra strength she seemed to have while drowning her children. She was mentally ill, no doubt. But, should she be in prison because she had and has a mental illness that everyone but the prison doctor misdiagnosed, IMO, NO! I don't think she is trying to get out of her punishment, just the opposite, she knows what she did.


This case is really a hot button issue for me. I was misdiagnosed just like Andrea Yates was. It took a suicide attempt by me (and I almost died), before the doctor really listened to me. Now, I know I am Bi-Polar and I need to take three different medications for the illness to keep me from going off of the deep end. One of the medications is for my anxiety disorder. I realize now I have to stay on all of medications in order to function. I still have bad days, even bad weeks, but at least I know that I can call the doctor and explain what is wrong, and the doctor actually listens to me. If only Andrea Yates hadn't been misdiagnosed.....I really think her doctor should bear some responsibility for what has happened.

I agree with you 100%. I'm sorry that you've had to go through the nightmare that you've dealt with, but am truly happy that you've been able to get the treatment that you need. God bless you darlin!!!

I guess the only silver lining in all of this is that no matter where Andrea ends up, State Run Mental Hospital or Prision Run Mental Hospital, hopefully she'll get the treatment that she needs. Maybe too, this has brought this illness to the forefront of people's minds and some others who desperately need treatment will see that (or their loved ones will) and can find help before its too late. The sickening thing about all of this is STILL the STIGMA that mental illness leaves on those who seek treatment. I feel as though its the one accepted discrimination that we've yet to find a way to deal with.

 

[tezi]

I agree with you 100%. I'm sorry that you've had to go through the nightmare that you've dealt with, but am truly happy that you've been able to get the treatment that you need. God bless you darlin!!!

Jeana, thank you.:blowkiss: I know I am not the same person I used to be before my illnes took over. And still a lot of people don't understand that mental illness is every bit as serious as a physical illness. I know that I have physical problems brought on by my mental illness. But, as long as I stay on my meds, the physical problems stay away!

I hope that Andrea Yates is able to get the treatment she needs. She also needs help dealing with the fact that she killed her children while mentally impaired. I know that she understands what she did, but I believe she needs to understand the why she did it.

That crackpot Woroniecki and his wife helped to lead AY down this path IMO. Rusty seemed to have learned the lesson about Woroniecki after buying the bus, but he sure didn't seem to be upset or tell his wife that Woroniecki was and still is a crackpot. I wonder how many other people's lives Woroniecki destroyed with his "teachings.":doh:

 

[~wildangel~]

GREAT ok so she's "insane" and in prisons and mental hospitals they don't have the internet, normal things that we have right? That's the funniest thing i've ever heard.

A close family member..we'll just call her mom, is in and out of the mental ward all the time. I think i've been to 10 mental wards since i was young. She's schitzophrenic, delusional and her medication makes her worse. She's a suicidalal schitzophrenic. That's right, mom is. So you're going to tell me (someone that has been to visit the mental ward since she was a toddler) i don't know anything about mental wards??? You can have pretty much what you want in a mental ward. You have friends, movies, tv, a computer, don't even tell me Andrea Yates is living so horrible. That's not true. My mom...well she'd rather be there than with my dad i'll tell you that

Yes i also do blame her husband. For not seeing the signs...he should have at least seen signs or something.

Maybe a million doctors said she was insane and she is! She should still be put to death. Who needs a mental nutcase that kills her children on this earth?

 

[tybee204]

Prison inmates do not have access to the Internet. They have friends and "Pen Pals" on the outside that establish websites etc for them and post their messages for them. Unless your "Mom" has been instiutionalized in facilitites for the Criminally Insane then your experience is not the same.
Criminally Insane Patients are still Inmates and that Section of the State Hospital is run much like a prison. A State Hospital for the Criminally Insane is no picnic with Internet, great movies and feel good moments.

 

[~wildangel~]

I hope not Tybee...so it's different then a regular mental ward? Well that makes me feel better! lol

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I hope not Tybee...so it's different then a regular mental ward? Well that makes me feel better! lol

I can see why you're bitter, but as Tybee said the comparison is impossible.

 

[Goody]

Is this trial going to go forward or not? I heard late last week that it was, then I saw some posts here talking about a plea deal. Does anyone know what is on the agenda?

 

[Maybe So]

Adalena, I didn't copy your entire post to save some space. But I think you raise a very good point. The examples you gave of mass murderers are surely also examples of extreme mental illness. Is the mental health of these sick S.O.B's disregarded because their victims were strangers? Irregardless and mental illness aside, murder is murder.

:clap:

well said

 

[lollipop3]

. . .I guess the only silver lining in all of this is that no matter where Andrea ends up, State Run Mental Hospital or Prision Run Mental Hospital, hopefully she'll get the treatment that she needs. Maybe too, this has brought this illness to the forefront of people's minds and some others who desperately need treatment will see that (or their loved ones will) and can find help before its too late. The sickening thing about all of this is STILL the STIGMA that mental illness leaves on those who seek treatment. I feel as though its the one accepted discrimination that we've yet to find a way to deal with.

Well said.

 

[Annie]

Is this trial going to go forward or not? I heard late last week that it was, then I saw some posts here talking about a plea deal. Does anyone know what is on the agenda?

She was offered a plea deal where she would plead guilty for a sentence of 35 years. She turned it down and the trial will be March 20. The plea offer will remain on the table until March 10.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

She was offered a plea deal where she would plead guilty for a sentence of 35 years. She turned it down and the trial will be March 20. The plea offer will remain on the table until March 10.

Thanks for the info Annie. I think its a bad deal and she's right to take her chances in court. She was already convicted and she spent the time in the prison mental hospital. Should she be convicted again, she'll just go back there instead of a state run mental hospital. Either way, she won't be in general population or on death row.

 

[bugs]

Thanks for the info Annie. I think its a bad deal and she's right to take her chances in court. She was already convicted and she spent the time in the prison mental hospital. Should she be convicted again, she'll just go back there instead of a state run mental hospital. Either way, she won't be in general population or on death row.

Which is a good thing - she needs full medical attention.

 

[Details]

I don't see how a call to 911 represents that she knew right from wrong - just that she knew how to get some people there to get her children cleaned up and buried, at most that she knew legal from illegal - which isn't the same thing at all. Ask any parent who has assaulted or killed a pedophile preying on their child if legal and right are the same thing.

In my point of view, she thought her kids were going to hell, because she was so evil, such a horrible mother (BTW: I've never seen a single report that says anything other than that she was always a very loving and caring mother, very self-sacrificing for them - it seems sick that she can be called an abuser just out of thin air). That's what she was taught, that's what she believed.

But, she could save them! A child murdered by someone else would go to heaven, automatically! Of course she killed all 5 - what kind of mother would she be to play favorites and leave one child to hell and send the rest to heaven? That is insanity - reality and where you live are not even on the same planet (although what she is thinking is not so far different from the thought process used during the Spanish inquisition to torture and murder unbelievers to convert them.....).

Yeah, she knew her husband and MIL might try to stop her, and that the police certainly would - but they were wrong to do so. So she did it, then did some very insane things - first, any sane murderer first tries to hide the bodies, hide what they have done, or blame someone else - she didn't. She quite insanely called 911! What kind of murderer calls 911 to tell them to come get her? An insane one! She knew what she did was illegal, but also thought it was the right thing to do - a common perception among sane and insane people (people who steal food, for their starving children - a sane choice to do what is right but illegal).

Insanity isn't stupidity, it doesn't mean that you can't think and plan - just that your thoughts and plans are based on a false reality that is - in a word - insane! In the earlier stages, you can know you are insane, that this is wrong, and seek help - and she did - over and over and over again. But over time, without effective help, with Rusty and the doctor acting as helpers to the mental illness rather than helping her - the insanity becomes your reality.

It's not hard for me to believe this - all of her history, all of her attempts to get help, all of her self-destructive behavior shows her insanity for years back. Sane people don't hurt themselves! She did, over and over again, in so many ways. What she did to her children, was, to her, an unselfish act - taking the sin of killing her children to send them to heaven, to do the right thing by them. It was a horrible thing, but as someone before pointed out, if she believed, as everything indicates, that the children would be going to Hell, it is exactly like if she submerged them in that filthy water to help them escape from dying in a burning house - something any mother would do.

She fought her illness for a long time, but it won. I feel nothing but pity for her, and her children. If she is not insane, no one is. Insanity is when doing something insane seems the rational, selfless choice. It can be temporary, as when a friend of mine decided the only reasonable option was to commit suicide (under the influence of an extremely severe long term lack of sleep), or permanent, when it is a function of brain chemistry and so many other things we don't understand.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't see how a call to 911 represents that she knew right from wrong - just that she knew how to get some people there to get her children cleaned up and buried, at most that she knew legal from illegal - which isn't the same thing at all. Ask any parent who has assaulted or killed a pedophile preying on their child if legal and right are the same thing.

In my point of view, she thought her kids were going to hell, because she was so evil, such a horrible mother (BTW: I've never seen a single report that says anything other than that she was always a very loving and caring mother, very self-sacrificing for them - it seems sick that she can be called an abuser just out of thin air). That's what she was taught, that's what she believed.

But, she could save them! A child murdered by someone else would go to heaven, automatically! Of course she killed all 5 - what kind of mother would she be to play favorites and leave one child to hell and send the rest to heaven? That is insanity - reality and where you live are not even on the same planet (although what she is thinking is not so far different from the thought process used during the Spanish inquisition to torture and murder unbelievers to convert them.....).

Yeah, she knew her husband and MIL might try to stop her, and that the police certainly would - but they were wrong to do so. So she did it, then did some very insane things - first, any sane murderer first tries to hide the bodies, hide what they have done, or blame someone else - she didn't. She quite insanely called 911! What kind of murderer calls 911 to tell them to come get her? An insane one! She knew what she did was illegal, but also thought it was the right thing to do - a common perception among sane and insane people (people who steal food, for their starving children - a sane choice to do what is right but illegal).

Insanity isn't stupidity, it doesn't mean that you can't think and plan - just that your thoughts and plans are based on a false reality that is - in a word - insane! In the earlier stages, you can know you are insane, that this is wrong, and seek help - and she did - over and over and over again. But over time, without effective help, with Rusty and the doctor acting as helpers to the mental illness rather than helping her - the insanity becomes your reality.

It's not hard for me to believe this - all of her history, all of her attempts to get help, all of her self-destructive behavior shows her insanity for years back. Sane people don't hurt themselves! She did, over and over again, in so many ways. What she did to her children, was, to her, an unselfish act - taking the sin of killing her children to send them to heaven, to do the right thing by them. It was a horrible thing, but as someone before pointed out, if she believed, as everything indicates, that the children would be going to Hell, it is exactly like if she submerged them in that filthy water to help them escape from dying in a burning house - something any mother would do.

She fought her illness for a long time, but it won. I feel nothing but pity for her, and her children. If she is not insane, no one is. Insanity is when doing something insane seems the rational, selfless choice. It can be temporary, as when a friend of mine decided the only reasonable option was to commit suicide (under the influence of an extremely severe long term lack of sleep), or permanent, when it is a function of brain chemistry and so many other things we don't understand.

You have a great way with words and were able to explain exactally how I feel, as well.

Thank you, Details!

 

[Goody]

Thanks for the info Annie. I think its a bad deal and she's right to take her chances in court. She was already convicted and she spent the time in the prison mental hospital. Should she be convicted again, she'll just go back there instead of a state run mental hospital. Either way, she won't be in general population or on death row.

I agree, Jeana,. That is a lousy deal. I think she will be found NGBROI. Then she will go to an institution where she will receive treatment.

 

[tezi]

When is the new trial date? I was hoping the prosecution would offer her a better deal, like time in a mental facility, with periodic reviews of how she is progressing. She doesn't deserve to be in prison, but she needs to be in a mental facility.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

When is the new trial date? I was hoping the prosecution would offer her a better deal, like time in a mental facility, with periodic reviews of how she is progressing. She doesn't deserve to be in prison, but she needs to be in a mental facility.

Yesterday, 06:46 AM
Annie
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 64

Trial set for March 20



She was offered a plea deal where she would plead guilty for a sentence of 35 years. She turned it down and the trial will be March 20. The plea offer will remain on the table until March 10.

 

[tezi]

Yesterday, 06:46 AM
Annie
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 64

Trial set for March 20



She was offered a plea deal where she would plead guilty for a sentence of 35 years. She turned it down and the trial will be March 20. The plea offer will remain on the table until March 10.

Thanks Jeana and Annie!:blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Perhaps because there are so many false "not guilty by reason of insanity" defenses it seems to have made up a lot of peoples minds that everyone using that defense is using it to "get away with the crime".

I, mentally ill myself, agree that there are many, many people out there using this defense with nothing to back it up. "not guilty by reason of insanity" is not supposed to be there for every flake who decides they no longer want certain people in their lives- so they kill 'em. People like that give NGBROI a bad name!
One and all- all and one- does not work with this particular defense.

Not guilty by reason of insanity is so often MISused that when is is used appropriatly we assume that once again someone is trying to get away with something.
Which of course makes people think Andrea and others like her are faking it.

I don't know how else to make sense of what others are saying regarding Andrea and her crimes. Other then to assume they are jaded- they feel too many people are allowed to use the insanity defense that are not insane.. which in turn makes them feel everyone that uses the insanity defense is sane..