TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[CrimeDawg123]

I’m really interested in hearing the evidence against her that we may not have known about. I was reading an article the other day and this is just an opinion that the writer wrote about, but they seem to think because those 9 cases were dropped against the people arrested by guyger means somehow that the prosecution is fairly confident in the information that they have that she’s guilty. I’m not sure why that is but the writer believed so.

On the news the DA said that he was fairly confident that Murder was the right charge but you never know what the jury thinks.

I am curious about evidence. I need more evidence. She most definitely killed him and maybe I’m still thinking from the prospective if it was manslaughter which I’ve always felt but again with the way it is worded in Texas, it’s most definitely murder.

There can be plenty of ways that this can play out. I think the biggest evidence will be the electronic lock system. If it shows that she somehow went to her apartment first, she’s done. If it shows that his door was indeed locked, she’s done but if it shows that it was unlocked at the time. That may buy her time. Now, the only thing the defense would have to do is prove that she was indeed tired but they also will have to explain how you miss 6 signs for the jury to believe it.

BBM

Curious what everyone here are thinking? Murder,Manslaughter, Mistake of Fact? Should she get a pass because she though it was her place? Do you think it went down like she said it did?

I personally can’t decide between Murder and Manslaughter. Again, I do believe it may have been an accident, only because from what we know now, there is no motive. But I don’t believe it’s mistake of fact. I think she has to be held responsible for being reckless.

The only motive that I could possibly think about is that she was tired when she got home and went upstairs to confront him making noise. And I don’t know.

Curious if the witnesses heard knocking and let me in, will be called by the state to testify.

In Texas there doesn't need to be premeditation or motive, just intent. If you take out your firearm and aim at someone's torso and shoot, that is clearly intent and, in Texas, murder. I think as a layperson watching TV as the basis of my law experience I was inclined to think murder meant you had to plan it in advance or have a motive. Not so apparently in Texas.

 

[iluvmua]

When does the trial start?

 

[mister happy]

In Texas there doesn't need to be premeditation or motive, just intent. If you take out your firearm and aim at someone's torso and shoot, that is clearly intent and, in Texas, murder. I think as a layperson watching TV as the basis of my law experience I was inclined to think murder meant you had to plan it in advance or have a motive. Not so apparently in Texas.

Yes, this is interesting. I followed the James Fields trial, which was in Virginia. Here's what the prosecutor told the jury in her closing argument:

"The popular conception of premeditation doesn’t match the actual law. That premeditation doesn’t require months of plotting or a cork board and red string. It simply requires an intent to kill that is adopted before the act is committed. There is no specific length of time for which that intent must exist. Even a moment is sufficient."

 

[Handsome Sailor]

this trial should be moved to another location, for everyone's benefit. amber won't get a fair trial. there's too much animosity in parts of the community. the judge erred, imo

 

[VAgirlatheart]

BBM



In Texas there doesn't need to be premeditation or motive, just intent. If you take out your firearm and aim at someone's torso and shoot, that is clearly intent and, in Texas, murder. I think as a layperson watching TV as the basis of my law experience I was inclined to think murder meant you had to plan it in advance or have a motive. Not so apparently in Texas.

Agreed. If felt more like manslaughter to me but technically in Texas, she did commit a murder when she intended to kill him. Even if she was intending to just wound him and not kill him, the way it reads in Texas or atleast a part of it states


intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;

 

[VAgirlatheart]

this trial should be moved to another location, for everyone's benefit. amber won't get a fair trial. there's too much animosity in parts of the community. the judge erred, imo

I highly disagree. I think by moving it, they are not doing justice for Botham and the defense is trying to sway the results. They tried to move it to either Collin or Rockwall county (which is a county where the white race is more dominant and more conservative) because of so called “media bias” ... we aren’t dumb. We know exactly what her defense was trying to do. “Media Bias” is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. Not sure if you live in this area or not but moving it to Rockwall County/Collin County wouldn’t change a thing besides a one sided jury selection to get her off and I am so glad the judge denied it. The media bias claim is outrageously ridiculous because Dallas County, Rockwall County, Collin County, Tarrant County ... - we all watch the same news. We all see the same thing.

 

[Wishbone]

IMO She could end up with a lessor charge unless it is proved Guyger went to that apartment to confront or kill Botham. She may be convicted of Criminally Negligent Homicide. In Texas, the punishment for negligent homicide ranges from 180 days up to 2 years in state jail and a fine, to probation and community service She could also face an independent civil lawsuit for causing the death of another person.


"The jurors won't have to decide whether Guyger killed Jean, a 26-year-old accountant from St. Lucia. That is not in dispute. Instead, the jurors will listen to the evidence and decide if Guyger killing Jean was a crime.
And, if it was a crime, is it murder? Or a lesser charge like manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide.

Guyger's attorneys are expected to argue she made a "mistake of fact": believing she was in her apartment and that she needed to defend herself from someone she thought was a burglar.

If the jury believes a "reasonable" person could have also made that mistake, Guyger could be found not guilty of murder. If they don't, the jury could find her guilty. If the jury does find Guyger not guilty of murder, they would then deliberate the lesser charges.

Murder is punishable by up to life in prison. Criminally negligent homicide is punishable by up to two years in a state jail."

Testimony begins Monday in Amber Guyger's murder trial for shooting Botham Jean

 

[VAgirlatheart]

I highly disagree. I think by moving it, they are not doing justice for Botham and the defense is trying to sway the results. They tried to move it to either Collin or Rockwall county (which is a county where the white race is more dominant and more conservative) because of so called “media bias” ... we aren’t dumb. We know exactly what her defense was trying to do. “Media Bias” is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. Not sure if you live in this area or not but moving it to Rockwall County/Collin County wouldn’t change a thing besides a one sided jury selection to get her off and I am so glad the judge denied it. The media bias claim is outrageously ridiculous because Dallas County, Rockwall County, Collin County, Tarant County ... - we all watch the same news. We all see the same thing.

I also believe that the community can be fair - I can see her getting a lesser charge. I don’t think she should walk but it doesn’t mean that they can agree to give her the manslaughter charge. I just don’t think her mistake of fact is really a good reasonable reason for her to kill the man especially when she had multiple chances to realize that “she wasn’t at the right apartment” by the time she got to his door. Once we hear opening statements, I’ll know exactly how to feel about it.

 

[Rocco]

It's on live here: FOX 4 News

 

[VAgirlatheart]

IMO She could end up with a lessor charge unless it is proved Guyger went to that apartment to confront or kill Botham. She may be convicted of Criminally Negligent Homicide. In Texas, the punishment for negligent homicide ranges from 180 days up to 2 years in state jail and a fine, to probation and community service She could also face an independent civil lawsuit for causing the death of another person.


"The jurors won't have to decide whether Guyger killed Jean, a 26-year-old accountant from St. Lucia. That is not in dispute. Instead, the jurors will listen to the evidence and decide if Guyger killing Jean was a crime.
And, if it was a crime, is it murder? Or a lesser charge like manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide.

Guyger's attorneys are expected to argue she made a "mistake of fact": believing she was in her apartment and that she needed to defend herself from someone she thought was a burglar.

If the jury believes a "reasonable" person could have also made that mistake, Guyger could be found not guilty of murder. If they don't, the jury could find her guilty. If the jury does find Guyger not guilty of murder, they would then deliberate the lesser charges.

Murder is punishable by up to life in prison. Criminally negligent homicide is punishable by up to two years in a state jail."

Testimony begins Monday in Amber Guyger's murder trial for shooting Botham Jean

I can totally see that.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

So are they trying I throw out the experts testimony about sleep deprivation all together? Or just for today.

 

[MsArk]

Surprised the court has not already gone through these motions. Some judges get ticked off at attorneys who make the jurors wait unnecessarily.

 

[Anicole]

THE JUDGE JUST WENT OFF!!!

I'm DYING right now, lol. I totally expected her to say, "Have you lost your ever lovin' MIND, bringing that in here?"

And then scolding her … "You're here for every court case there is. You know better!"

How did the laptop make it past security? I know sometimes press can bring cell phones to live tweet and whatnot, but I thought all other electronics were off limits.

 

[sloane7777]

Curious what everyone here are thinking? Murder,Manslaughter, Mistake of Fact? Should she get a pass because she though it was her place? Do you think it went down like she said it did?

I personally can’t decide between Murder and Manslaughter. Again, I do believe it may have been an accident, only because from what we know now, there is no motive. But I don’t believe it’s mistake of fact. I think she has to be held responsible for being reckless.

The only motive that I could possibly think about is that she was tired when she got home and went upstairs to confront him making noise. And I don’t know.

Curious if the witnesses heard knocking and let me in, will be called by the state to testify.

this trial should be moved to another location, for everyone's benefit. amber won't get a fair trial. there's too much animosity in parts of the community. the judge erred, imo

She shot him here so.....he died here ..and he has all his family here and a lot of witnesses are here Maybe she shouldn't have shot first and asked questions later , here.

 

[Hraefn]

When does the trial start?

It started this morning but I am not sure exactly what time, it's live now.
https://www.courttv.com/title/court-tv-live-stream-web/

Watch Live: Former Cop Amber Guyger on Trial in Alleged Murder of Botham Jean

ETA: My apologies, it seems the Judge is still hearing pre-trial motions (no jury present). That is what is live, not the actual trial yet. Sorry!

 

[Hraefn]

this trial should be moved to another location, for everyone's benefit. amber won't get a fair trial. there's too much animosity in parts of the community. the judge erred, imo

They spent several days in voir dire. The jury selection was made before the determination whether or not to change venue. I can only assume the Judge was thoroughly convinced the jurors and alternates chosen were as un-biased as reasonably can be expected, while not knowing any details of the specific case.

 

[BeachSky]

I think you are correct.

From the same link NBCDFW: "... Crump said Jean was shot in the chest. ..."

My understanding has always been that AG fired two shots. One shot struck BJ in the chest, the slug tumbled into his abdomen, and there was only the entrance wound with no exit wound. The second shot went high & right into the far wall never striking BJ at all.

JMO

Thanks. My mistake.

 

[Rocco]

So she was texting her partner while she was on the 911 call. So that's why she wasn't giving him any aid---busy texting.

 

[Cryptic]

I personally can’t decide between Murder and Manslaughter.

Neither can I. At this point, I am leaning towards manslaughter.

I would, however, be interested in seeing any “loaded, locked and cocked” type social medial posts or other exhortations encouraging the automatic use of deadly force.

In short, if it can be proven that she was pre-disposed to use deadly force and was looking for any pretense to do so, I could support a murder conviction.

In my opinion, however, simple “Back the Blue” posts or even posts calling for capital punishment of those convicted of murdering police would not necessarily show such a predisposition.

IMO She could end up with a lessor charge unless it is proved Guyger went to that apartment to confront or kill Botham.

I think this is a good analysis.

Though I could consider murder charges if it could be proven that she was pre-disposed to use deadly force and looking for a pretense, I think your analysis gives a standard that is easier to present and also easier to apply.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Neither can I. At this point, I am leaning towards manslaughter.

I would, however, be interested in seeing any “loaded, locked and cocked” type social medial posts or other exhortations encouraging the automatic use of deadly force.

In short, if it can be proven that she was pre-disposed to use deadly force and was looking for any pretense to do so, I could support a murder conviction.

In my opinion, however, simple “Back the Blue” posts or even posts calling for capital punishment of those convicted of murdering police would not necessarily show such a predisposition.

I agree. But again, based of off the law in Texas and the wording .. it’s definitely murder but seems like a manslaughter charge.

Now if there is that one little piece of evidence that is super damning to her then like you said I believe it’s a wrap.

The text messages does not look good for her. Especially rendering aid.