TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[Jax49]

Which is why she needs to be convicted on manslaughter.

I think that is 20 years.

But who knows what the jury will do

Jmo

Two to twenty years.

• A criminal homicide is charged as manslaughter when a person "recklessly causes the death of another individual," according to the Texas penal code. The charge is a second-degree felony, punishable by two to 20 years in prison and up to a $10,000 fine. A prosecutor does not have to prove intent or premeditation to earn a manslaughter conviction.

Manslaughter vs. murder: Explaining the charge Dallas cop Amber Guyger faces

 

[kim.kitchenstupman]

Now BJ's family is playing the race card.

SMH!!!!

Their attorney said that if he were white, he would be alive.

"Unfortunately the color of Botham's skin was the weapon she saw".

Of course, they play the race card. Race has NOTHING to do with it. Unfortunately, I was not shocked because it is the norm now days.

 

[Betty P]

The "race card" is not a card. It's an unfortunate reality for black people in our nation. The data and research/studies are super clear that how dangerous or culpable a person is perceived is based on skin color. The darker = the more dangerous and guilty and the harsher sentences. Thus, black people are treated more harshly from the time they're small. Hence the arrests recently of two little girls in Florida for throwing tantrums.

Another example, when a white male teen is caught with pot in a state where it's illegal, cops take him home for a talking to. If it's a black teen, there's a life altering arrest instead.

I can go on and on.

A black man told to get his ID and reaches for it after telling the cop where it is, is shot to death. This doesn't happen as much with white people. Unless they're mentally ill.

It's a perception thing that is drilled into our heads. And it's not even about being bad people or hating others due to their ethnicity. It's mostly subconscious.

That being said, I don't know that she could even see his skin color when she entered. I don't know if it was well lit.

But I do believe that if she was a black civilian and he was white, this thread would probably not be here. He would have been charged and there would be little sympathy or cries about what a tragic mistake was made or how he had a bunch of pot in his apartment.

Race matters in the law in our nation. Both in terms of how an accused is treated and how a victim is treated. The research is thorough.

Agree, was waiting for your reply.

I have the same question about how well lit his apartment was when she entered. They were discussing the panel of light switches inside the door yesterday.

 

[Cortne]

Which is why she needs to be convicted on manslaughter.

I think that is 20 years.

But who knows what the jury will do

Jmo

I hope they make it to where Guyger can no longer possess another weapon, of any kind along with a long sentence. She is a danger w her hot head. imo

 

[gitana1]

I didn't catch the distance per se, or apt#, but she was across the courtyard.

Whitney Hughes is another neighbor now testifying. She said the hallways are "echoey". She heard two quick gunshots, paused her TV, and also went to her peephole to look out, saw AG.

So if someone was standing in an open doorway yelling commands people would hear it?

 

[Jax49]

Agree, was waiting for your reply.

I have the same question about how well lit his apartment was when she entered. They were discussing the panel of light switches inside the door yesterday.

IIRC, in opening prosecutor talked about how scared Botham must have been when light flooded the apartment when she opened the door.

 

[Lillymac]

Of course, they play the race card. Race has NOTHING to do with it. Unfortunately, I was not shocked because it is the norm now days.

And...unfortunately the deck is being stacked against her!!

 

[Jax49]

So if someone was standing in an open doorway yelling commands people would hear it?

Yes. But I do recall one neighbor witness testified he heard two voices before the shots. He wasn't able to understand words. I think the implication is that they were yelling at each other. moo

 

[gitana1]

Cops protect their own. They are always "in fear for their lives", so therefore, always justified in killing it seems.

Yeah but I don't know if I can totally blame them. It's a horrible job really. They are in danger of death every day. I mean cops are killed often in our nation. While doing their jobs.

I think it's probably hard for any of us to fully understand unless we walk in their shoes?

But I'd rather see that remedied with police unions, great pay and phenomenal perks, than obstruction or tampering or corrupt covering of evidence or unequal treatment of cops who are suspected of committing a crime.

 

[10ofRods]

To me, even if she shouted commands, it’s still (highly) negligent abuse of police powers. It’s the same as if police storm the wrong house and shoot/harm innocent people they believe to be drug dealers merely because the police didn’t read the numbers on the house properly. It’s a severe form of negligence and it’s one that police must be held accountable for.

At what point a case goes from negligent homicide to manslaughter in Texas, I really have no clue. Would love to hear some case law examples. The punishments seem to say that negligent homicide is a “tragic accident.” Something about this case as presented so far (I know very little other than what’s being presented in court today) doesn’t seem quite like a tragic accident.

A parent forgetting a child in the car on a hot day is right on the boundary of “tragic accident” to me. So, negligent homicide, I guess. If the parent had made prior decisions (such as going without sleep, distracting self with texts, habitual lateness to work, etc) then it might be over the line (for me as a juror) into manslaughter.

If I drive a vehicle while impaired in any way and kill someone, to me that’s vehicular manslaughter. If I kill someone because my tire blew and I’m too ignorant to know when to buy new tires, that’s probably negligence. So many variables, right? I’d hate to be one of the jurors on this one, that’s for sure. What a solemn duty they have.

 

[Jax49]

Apparently family was still in the courtroom when the video shot in his apartment was played earlier today. Good that the jury was out of room because there were audible sobs from them. The judge heard and apologized for not warning them to leave.

ETA: Referring to the video showing CPR being performed.

 

[Curious21]

Of course, they play the race card. Race has NOTHING to do with it. Unfortunately, I was not shocked because it is the norm now days.

And we could also say that it's the "norm" for some people to think that racism doesn't exist.....and think minorities use the "race card". I don't think race had anything to do with her shooting and killing him, I do however think that it is seen as a race issue now, because whether you believe it or not, had it been the other way around, it wouldn't have been a "oops, it was a mistake, my bad".

 

[Lillymac]

Of course, they play the race card. Race has NOTHING to do with it. Unfortunately, I was not shocked because it is the norm now days.

And I bet the defense injected and the judge overruled it...

 

[Isabelle]

What screams loudest to me is AG’s failure to act when she realized what horrible action she took against an innocent man. She is incapable of feeling for others? Is she morally empty?

 

[gitana1]

IIRC, in opening prosecutor talked about how scared Botham must have been when light flooded the apartment when she opened the door.

Oh. So she saw him. Then the family's comments make absolute perfect sense. It's instinctual.

“Across a range of different stimuli and dependent variables, perceivers showed a consistent and strong bias to perceive young Black men as larger and more capable of harm than young White men (at least among non-Black participants),” the study authors wrote. “Such perceptions may have disturbing consequences for how both civilians and law enforcement personnel perceive and behave toward Black individuals.”
People overestimate the size of black men, perceive them as more threatening than white men, study finds

Bias by decision makers at all stages of the justice process disadvantages black people. Studies have found that they are more likely to be stopped by the police, detained pretrial, charged with more serious crimes, and sentenced more harshly than white people. For example, a 2004 study found that when police officers were asked “who looks criminal?” and shown a series of pictures, they more often chose black faces than white ones. Also, a 2013 study found that federal prosecutors are more likely to charge black people than similarly situated white people with offenses that carry higher mandatory minimum sentences.
Research Confirms that Entrenched Racism Manifests in Disparate…

BBM.

 

[iluvmua]

And I bet the defense injected and the judge overruled it...

It was an interview that one of the HLN reporters did with the family attorney

 

[gitana1]

To me, even if she shouted commands, it’s still (highly) negligent abuse of police powers. It’s the same as if police storm the wrong house and shoot/harm innocent people they believe to be drug dealers merely because the police didn’t read the numbers on the house properly. It’s a severe form of negligence and it’s one that police must be held accountable for.

At what point a case goes from negligent homicide to manslaughter in Texas, I really have no clue. Would love to hear some case law examples. The punishments seem to say that negligent homicide is a “tragic accident.” Something about this case as presented so far (I know very little other than what’s being presented in court today) doesn’t seem quite like a tragic accident.

A parent forgetting a child in the car on a hot day is right on the boundary of “tragic accident” to me. So, negligent homicide, I guess. If the parent had made prior decisions (such as going without sleep, distracting self with texts, habitual lateness to work, etc) then it might be over the line (for me as a juror) into manslaughter.

If I drive a vehicle while impaired in any way and kill someone, to me that’s vehicular manslaughter. If I kill someone because my tire blew and I’m too ignorant to know when to buy new tires, that’s probably negligence. So many variables, right? I’d hate to be one of the jurors on this one, that’s for sure. What a solemn duty they have.

Wow. That's a really good analysis of the possible differences. I like that.

I agree. Would not want to be on that jury.

 

[lonetraveler]

Is it a waste of time to have a gun residue expert testifying? Yes, the weapon was fired. Yes, AG fired it. No one is disputing this information.

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah but I don't know if I can totally blame them. It's a horrible job really. They are in danger of death every day. I mean cops are killed often in our nation. While doing their jobs.

I think it's probably hard for any of us to fully understand unless we walk in their shoes?

But I'd rather see that remedied with police unions, great pay and phenomenal perks, than obstruction or tampering or corrupt covering of evidence or unequal treatment of cops who are suspected of committing a crime.

Yet, as someone who taught for years at a Sheriff’s academy, one of the main points I had to drive home was that being a policeman is not the most dangerous occupation. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, year after year, shows that. Worldwide, the same occupation comes up in nearly every nation as the “most dangerous” (fisherman; if controlled by which nations are landlocked, fishing is and apparently has always been the world’s most dangerous occupation).

The other “most dangerous” include roofers, airline pilots and flight engineers, loggers, and refuse workers. My brother, a pilot, is 3X more likely to die in the line of duty than my friends who are police. And fisherman are about 7-8X more likely to die than police.

Firefighters and police share similar death stats, and yet, both groups choose their professions knowing the risks and in my view, must work with that knowledge and not excuse illegal or negligent or antisocial behavior because there are risks. We honor some of these professions way more (police and firefighters get the flag at half mast where I live - refuse workers and pilots do not).

I agree that as a society, we must do what we can to equip police and support them in their duties; permitting them to use the tools we’ve provided to harm innocent people cannot be part of the gig. Perhaps our legal system is not yet equipped to deal with these police-specific screw-ups, and maybe this case will be part of addressing that.

Obviously, we need to treat police the same as all other citizens when it comes to facing justice. I sure don’t know what “justice” is in this case, but 180 days in jail does not seem like enough. Truthfully, if she could some how spend the rest of her life involved in traveling the nation to warn other police about the need to separate personal lives and personal problems (including the need for overtime) from their professional duties...that would be great.

 

[lonetraveler]

Agree, was waiting for your reply.

I have the same question about how well lit his apartment was when she entered. They were discussing the panel of light switches inside the door yesterday.

I don't feel that race had anything to do with AG shooting and killing him. I believe that whoever was in that apartment would have been shot. However, I do agree that the trial happening has a lot to do with race.