TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

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Weki said:
Yeah I know what burglary is and I'm contending that's what she did. At the point she was at the door and realized this wasn't her apt, pulled her gun out, and walked in and shot him. That's exactly what it was. The only way it isn't is if you buy her defense that she thought it was her apt and he was an intruder. Which imo is completely unreasonable.
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Oh. I see!

I don't think she knew it wasn't her place when she shot him. I was open to the idea but there's been no evidence presented thus far.

But you bring up something important. The defense is certainly "mistake of fact". But how they refute that defense is indeed by showing the mistake she made wasn't a reasonable one.

Being an unreasonable "mistake" doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake and was instead an intentional act, but it does mean that it's not a viable defense.

So if she was careless, reckless, negligent, in assuming it was her place, entering that apartment and firing her gun, then the mistake was unreasonable and the defense fails.

So far that's where I'm at. The bright red mat. The open air parking level. The bright lights at eye level showing a different apartment number, the fact that her keys fit but wouldn't have turned the tumbler, etc., the rapid manner in which she shot the seated "intruder", all indicate to me she was unreasonably distracted and lacked reasonable caution.
 
@Isabelle There was testimony yesterday afternoon of a young woman who took pictures of AG's path into Botham Jean's apt and then did the same with the path to AG's apt to show comparison. Not sure why they didn't do video. There's no question the layout of the hallway/elevator etc looks similar like most apt buildings. That's why I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt until she gets to the door. But once she's at the door every action she took was unreasonable. Once she walks into the apt we get into intentional burglary and murder territory imo. There is just no way you walk in and don't pause. No way!
 
Rebecca Lopez‏Verified account @rlopezwfaa 11m11 minutes ago
Texas Ranger Michael Adcock says testing showed there were no blood stains on Amber Guyger's uniform. Prosecutors throughout the trial have pointed out that Guyger was not performing CPR on Jean that other officers did that when they got to scene. #AmberGuygerTrial


Rebecca Lopez‏Verified account @rlopezwfaa 9m9 minutes ago
Prosecutors pointing out Amber Guyger had police radio on her and could have used that to get officers quickly to scene instead of calling 911. #BothamJean #AmberGuygerTrial


Rebecca Lopez‏Verified account @rlopezwfaa 6m6 minutes ago
Prosecutors point out that Guyger had a Taser gun and pepper spray on her on night she shot Botham Jean. #AmberGuygerTrial


Rebecca Lopez‏Verified account @rlopezwfaa 4m4 minutes ago
Prosecutors show Guyger had latex gloves and they went unused. Again trying to show she did not perform CPR. #BothamJean #AmberGuygerTrial


L.P. Phillips‏ @lpphillips 29m29 minutes ago
Adcock was second witness to mention Guyger had a taser when she shot Jean. That said, he also testified if he perceived a deadly threat he would grab his gun before reaching for a taser. Adcock done. #AmberGuygerTrial


Rebecca Lopez‏Verified account @rlopezwfaa 33m33 minutes ago
On cross examination by Guyger's lawyer, Trooper Michael Adcock says he would not use a Taser or OC Spray if faced with a deadly force situation. He testified he would use a handgun. #AmberGuygerTrial #BothamJean
 
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The photos I saw entered into evidence yesterday for the testimony of Robyn Carr, DPD crime scene analyst, did NOT show AG's white truck parked with open air above. There was clearly another level of parking above, another upslope ramp behind the row she parked in. The part that was open air was to the side - the photos showed the elevator door (which also was under a flat roof) and a peekaboo opening to the side where night sky and a further sloped roof segment could be seen. JMO this is being mischaracterized as the rooftop open air parking, and it was not; the 4th floor parking is covered.
 
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SandyQLS said:
The photos I saw entered into evidence yesterday for the testimony of Robyn Carr, DPD crime scene analyst, did NOT show AG's white truck parked with open air above. There was clearly another level of parking above, another upslope ramp behind the row she parked in. The part that was open air was to the side - the photos showed the elevator door (which also had a flat roof) but a peekaboo opening to the side where night sky and a sloped roof segment could be seen. JMO this is being mischaracterized as the rooftop open air parking, and it was not, the 4th floor parking is covered.
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Same with the video they showed today. Just more BS being propagated
 
gitana1 said:
Oh. I see!

I don't think she knew it wasn't her place when she shot him. I was open to the idea but there's been no evidence presented thus far.

But you bring up something important. The defense is certainly "mistake of fact". But how they refute that defense is indeed by showing the mistake she made wasn't a reasonable one.

Being an unreasonable "mistake" doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake and was instead an intentional act, but it does mean that it's not a viable defense.

So if she was careless, reckless, negligent, in assuming it was her place, entering that apartment and firing her gun, then the mistake was unreasonable and the defense fails.

So far that's where I'm at. The bright red mat. The open air parking level. The bright lights at eye level showing a different apartment number, the fact that her keys fit but wouldn't have turned the tumbler, etc., the rapid manner in which she shot the seated "intruder", all indicate to me she was unreasonably distracted and lacked reasonable caution.
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Ok let me ask you this - once she realized the door was unlocked, don't you agree that she would come out of her "reverie" and be on alert? I mean, just from a physiological perspective? We all know that there are certain actions we do that are so habitual that sometimes we don't even realize we're doing them. Like walking out of your apt to go to work every morning and locking the door. It's so habitual that I sometimes don't even remember doing it. I'm on auto-pilot. Same with walking up to my door and unlocking it and getting in. If I were so distracted thinking about my sex appointment or an argument with my lover that I've walked up to the wrong door and I'm doing my auto-pilot thing of trying to unlock it and I realize it's already unlocked. At that point, your body will jump into high alert. That's what nature intended - it wants you to live and will wake you up to danger. Whatever was distracting you is now out the window and you will be very alert to your surroundings. So at that point you will notice all those things that alert you that this isn't your apt. There is no going around that imo. But she's saying she was so tired and distracted that her limbic system just....what? Her limbic system just decided not to show up to work that day?
 
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Isabelle said:
I read that yesterday. I think the part about her rendering aid was wrongly added to the report. I would also guess the persons preparing the report assumed she did render aid, as would be expected of anyone with any sense of morals/compassion. Probably what the are taught to do, I’m sure.
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You don't know that.

The one thing that would have benefited Amber would be if Mr Jean had lived. Amber needed Mr Jean to live so she wouldn't end up where she is right now as a defendant in a murder trial. If he had lived, the charge would be something like negligent discharge of a weapon. How does AG benefit by intentionally not rendering aid as you claim? It makes no sense.

What aid was AG supposed to render between 9:59:10 when she dialed 911 and 10:05:26 when Officers Lee and Blair began CPR - after AG had to go out and down the hallway to lead them to and through the apartment door as shown on bodycam? Was BJ breathing, did he have a pulse? I thought listeners heard Mr Jean in the background on the 911 call in which case CPR is NOT indicated (and anyone should know that). For a person to provide positional support, such as treating for shock, does not require getting covered in blood either.

MOO
 
SandyQLS said:
The photos I saw entered into evidence yesterday for the testimony of Robyn Carr, DPD crime scene analyst, did NOT show AG's white truck parked with open air above. There was clearly another level of parking above, another upslope ramp behind the row she parked in. The part that was open air was to the side - the photos showed the elevator door (which also was under a flat roof) and a peekaboo opening to the side where night sky and a further sloped roof segment could be seen. JMO this is being mischaracterized as the rooftop open air parking, and it was not; the 4th floor parking is covered.
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I saw that same thing this morning. 4th floor is also covered. Maybe rooftop parking for guests??
 
SandyQLS said:
You don't know that.

The one thing that would have benefited Amber would be if Mr Jean had lived. Amber needed Mr Jean to live so she wouldn't end up where she is right now as a defendant in a murder trial. If he had lived, the charge would be something like negligent discharge of a weapon. How does AG benefit by intentionally not rendering aid as you claim? It makes no sense.

What aid was AG supposed to render between 9:59:10 when she dialed 911 and 10:05:26 when Officers Lee and Blair began CPR - after AG had to go out and down the hallway to lead them to and through the apartment door as shown on bodycam? Was BJ breathing, did he have a pulse? I thought listeners heard Mr Jean in the background on the 911 call in which case CPR is NOT indicated (and anyone should know that). For a person to provide positional support, such as treating for shock, does not require getting covered in blood either.

MOO
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Correct. You can hear him moan in the 911 call.
 
gitana1 said:
Yeah but should it be? I mostly leave my door unlocked. I get claustrophobic so we leave the door open and screen is latched but easy to break into.

If intruders were punished maybe it wouldn't have to be a reality to live in fear.

That's really what this case is about. Making sure that people don't have to live in fear that someone is going to be totally careless while possessing a loaded weapon, and make a "mistake" that alters or ends life.
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Should it be? I think we all agree it should not, but sadly, this is the world we live in. I don't view it as living in fear, just being cautious. We hear so often about crimes of opportunity and this is one way I remove one of those opportunities. I definitely feel safer by doing this in my area.

I've really enjoyed the volleying of commentary on this thread. There's been a lot of great discussion and differing opinions; thank you all for that.
 
kodi said:
Should it be? I think we all agree it should not, but sadly, this is the world we live in. I don't view it as living in fear, just being cautious. We hear so often about crimes of opportunity and this is one way I remove one of those opportunities. I definitely feel safer by doing this in my area.

I've really enjoyed the volleying of commentary on this thread. There's been a lot of great discussion and differing opinions; thank you all for that.
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It also depends on area where you live. I live in heavily wooded rural area...my door is always locked. These apartments where AG lived are in South Dallas, near downtown. I would probably walk in the parking garage with my hand on my gun. Especially at night.
 
Dallas Feed‏ @FeedDallas 2m2 minutes ago
CBS Dallas: Differences & Similarities In Apartments Focus Of Day 4 In Amber Guyger Trial https://ift.tt/2loAOrP #dallas

Differences & Similarities In Apartments Focus Of Day 4 In Amber Guyger Trial


Alex Huening‏ @codered60 50s51 seconds ago
Live Updates: Testimony Continues in Amber Guyger Murder Trial https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Watch-Live-Amber-Guyger-Murder-Trial-Day-4-561148621.html … via @nbcdfw
GHKjS2t-
 
Gardenista said:
Correct. You can hear him moan in the 911 call.
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Really? I know the paramedic testified he heard no sounds or saw no movement. Of course that was several minutes after the call.
So that means if moans were heard during 911 call she was close to him..close enough phone picked sounds up. Did she use her cell phone or her issued radio? Not that it matters, just wondering. I'm assuming cell.
 
Lillymac said:
Really? I know the paramedic testified he heard no sounds or saw no movement. Of course that was several minutes after the call.
So that means if moans were heard during 911 call she was close to him..close enough phone picked sounds up. Did she use her cell phone or her issued radio? Not that it matters, just wondering. I'm assuming cell.
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Not sure. Maybe by the time the paramedics got there BSJ was gone? One of the officers testified today he was still alive.
 
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