GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[windrower]

What's scary is the Castle Doctrine doesn't seem to require a reasonable belief or inquiry. Not in TX.

Just "reason to believe" there's an intruder in her home.

And while politics and other issues aren't supposed to have to anything to do with this case and shouldn't, I now believe that depending on the make-up of the jury, this could very well be hung. Because based on posts today, we can sort of see on here that those who lean a certain direction tend to view AG as either not culpable or as minimally culpable.

I'm scared it will be impossible to convict in TX.

Hope I'm wrong.

bbm
I cannot believe anyone thinks she is not culpable. May she never darken the door of another innocent again.

Every day she had a phalanx of officers proudly escorting her in.

I am pro LE, but this is very disturbing to me.

Not necessarily reasonable to assume. But it creates a presumption that the threat of harm exists from that intruder. Armed or otherwise. I mean someone big enough could overcome a woman and beat her to death with nothing but their hands.

Regardless, after listening to the jury instructions the doctrine seems to state she simply had to have reason to believe an intrude had entered. Not a reasonable belief.

That's super concerning.

The Castle Doctrine is what scares me about this case--- it is absurd that it should be allowed to be used by the defense,---it makes no sense because it wasnt her apartment

^^^This, and gitana1's. Very concerning. She was not at or in her apartment.

And you will never convince me that she honestly made a mistake about where she was. I think she was on the fight, mad about where things were with the married man, feeling invincible in her uniform, and looking to lash out.

She's a disgrace all the way around.

IMO

 

[BeachSky]

As someone with a condo, this hit me very hard. She also acknowledged she knew that they were coming as well. I could see how she may assume that only 8 to 4, but even a logical person would still be like “well maybe they are here late for some reason.” If there was ever a part where I believed her, (there wasn’t lol) but if there was, she completely lost me there.

Would this case be any different, if it was the maintenance man? That’s interesting to think about.

The maintenance man would be in there with the lights on but the door would probably not be locked.
I think she was trigger happy, ego fragile after that guy grabbed her taser.


MOO

 

[Cortne]

Amen!!

bbm
I cannot believe anyone thinks she is not culpable. May she never darken the door of another innocent again.



I am pro LE, but this is very disturbing to me.





^^^This, and gitana1's. Very concerning. She was not at or in her apartment.

And you will never convince me that she honestly made a mistake about where she was. I think she was on the fight, mad about where things were with the married man, feeling invincible in her uniform, and looking to lash out.

She's a disgrace all the way around.

IMO

 

[SandyQLS]

I have to disagree that she would immediately know it wasn't her home, but she definitely should have had a gigantic WTF is going on here moment before going any further. I've read numerous cases where intruders make themselves at home during the commission of their crimes. Sometimes they eat the victims food, smoke cigarettes, have a beer and more. While I would say it's not the norm, it does happen and it should have been something to cause her pause. JMO

I'm just jumping off your post for continuity here...

I have gone to the wrong apartment, wrong hotel room, and had others do the same to me. When my key did not work at my apt., I was furious that the landlord locked me out because I know I paid my rent! It took a moment for me to realize that made no sense, step back, and actually read the apt. number. When a man with a key card came right into my room at 9PM on my 2nd night at a $220/night hotel, he started barking at me, "What are YOU doing in MY room?" I was ready to jump off the balcony, had to point out him the messed up bed, my open suitcase, papers all over the table, I had my pajamas on... before he agreed the desk made some mistake and he should leave.

My point is that (in my experience and MOO) most people's first instinct is to not realize they are mistaken when something seems wrong. I believe Amber that she went to the wrong apt. in a typical after-work fatigue daze, distracted by phone. I believe Amber made a mistake of fact regarding where she was. For me, I think she was negligent for not turning on the light switch right there inside the door, same as her own apt.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm just jumping off your post for continuity here...

I have gone to the wrong apartment, wrong hotel room, and had others do the same to me. When my key did not work at my apt., I was furious that the landlord locked me out because I know I paid my rent! It took a moment for me to realize that made no sense, step back, and actually read the apt. number. When a man with a key card came right into my room at 9PM on my 2nd night at a $220/night hotel, he started barking at me, "What are YOU doing in MY room?" I was ready to jump off the balcony, had to point out him the messed up bed, my open suitcase, papers all over the table, I had my pajamas on... before he agreed the desk made some mistake and he should leave.

My point is that most people's first instinct is to not realize they are mistaken when something seems wrong. I believe Amber that she went to the wrong apt. in a typical after-work fatigue daze, distracted by phone. I believe Amber made a mistake of fact regarding where she was. For me, I think she was negligent for not turning on the light switch right there inside the door, same as her own apt.

I don't think you can go all the way to "most people" would react as you and this man did.

 

[lonetraveler]

I was nearly shot one time while working out of town. I was working very long hours on a project start up and when I inserted my card key into the hotel door, it immediately jerked open and I was staring into the wrong end of a 45 caliber pistol. The man demanded to know wtf was I doing coming into his room. Needless to say, I was petrified. I tried to explain to him that it was my room. He backed me out into the hallway and finally I turned and quickly walked/ran to the hotel front desk. The customer service rep apologized to me and explained that they had messed up and did not have me there for two nights as I had booked and had removed my things and would move me to another room. I demanded to know more and explained to her that I had almost been shot. Didn't matter, it seemed LE was conducting an operation and needed that particular room. Just thought I would share.

 

[wyome]

I agree with most of your points, but I still can't see AG as a victim in this situation. I truly believe she doesn't think she did anything wrong and feels justified in her actions. If anything, she feels like a victim simply for being held accountable. She seems the kind of person who will always blame others for her mistakes. She'll be bitter at the loss of her job, but she'll move on without guilt or regrets about her actions. Wherever she goes, unfortunately, she'll find people who'll support and agree with her.

I hope Jean's family can eventually find peace by forgiving her, as many of us would try to do.

I do see her as a victim, and I know I'm in the minority.

13 1/2 hrs into a job. I'm tired after 9.

I think she thought this would all go away early on and LE would wave this off. In her warped mind, I think she felt "justified". I don't think she realized how f*ed she was until the trial proceeded.

I believe she's sincere when she says she hates herself every day. This is why I think she's on the path to self-destruction.

 

[Cindizzi]

I believe they started deliberating at 3:28 EST.

Yep. From Law and Crime Network Twitter feed. About 3 1/2 hours now.

 

[gitana1]

I have an appointment tomorrow at 3:30 pm, that is when they will reach a verdict.

Ha ha!

 

[MyBelle]

I'm just jumping off your post for continuity here...

I have gone to the wrong apartment, wrong hotel room, and had others do the same to me. When my key did not work at my apt., I was furious that the landlord locked me out because I know I paid my rent! It took a moment for me to realize that made no sense, step back, and actually read the apt. number. When a man with a key card came right into my room at 9PM on my 2nd night at a $220/night hotel, he started barking at me, "What are YOU doing in MY room?" I was ready to jump off the balcony, had to point out him the messed up bed, my open suitcase, papers all over the table, I had my pajamas on... before he agreed the desk made some mistake and he should leave.

My point is that most people's first instinct is to not realize they are mistaken when something seems wrong. I believe Amber that she went to the wrong apt. in a typical after-work fatigue daze, distracted by phone. I believe Amber made a mistake of fact regarding where she was. For me, I think she was negligent for not turning on the light switch right there inside the door, same as her own apt.

I understand the concept of the human mind putting itself on automatic pilot but in my own experience, the auto pilot switches off when a noise, smell, visual triggers it off. In this case, the door was ajar, the weed was wafting and the television was on. There is no way AG thought she was in her own apartment at the threshold of the door. I think she was mad at her married boyfriend and she took out her anger on an innocent man.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

The maintenance man would be in there with the lights on but the door would probably not be locked.
I think she was trigger happy, ego fragile after that guy grabbed her taser.


MOO

She pulled her gun out before she opened the door and saw whether the lights were on or not.

 

[Bennettfit]

I do see her as a victim, and I know I'm in the minority.

13 1/2 hrs into a job. I'm tired after 9.

I think she thought this would all go away early on and LE would wave this off. In her warped mind, I think she felt "justified". I don't think she realized how f*ed she was until the trial proceeded.

I believe she's sincere when she says she hates herself every day. This is why I think she's on the path to self-destruction.

Ted Bundy needed you seated on his jury.

 

[Cindizzi]

You must live in Austin. A blue island in a sea of red.

Actually after 40 years In Houston, now in Colorado. But my huge half -liberal , half-redneck ( I say that lovingly) family is in East Texas. And we all get along. I would never bash a fellow Texan and I will fight for Everyone’s right to their beliefs. Spent a lot of time in Austin in the 1970’s.

 

[wyome]

Ted Bundy needed you seated on his jury.

You're comparing Ted Bundy to AG? That's on you.

 

[SandyQLS]

I don't think you can go all the way to "most people" would react as you and this man did.

ETA: I changed my post above to state MOO - thanks.

I only have the 2 anecdotes to offer as examples, and it's JMO and stated experience, obviously. Why would the mind of a person who acts with good will and does the "right" thing almost always first think they are wrong about a simple thing? That the door allowed Amber entry reinforced her mistaken belief that it was her apartment.

The man who entered my hotel room did not shoot me, and I did not shoot him, but that hotel had given both of us legal occupancy at the same time.

That AG fired her gun so fast before she mentally self-checked, before she hit the light switch, before she was certain and correct of her position, is where I find fault. For me, that's the only critical point, right there, in the whole matter. I can understand the posters who say she went in guns blazing, but AG testified she was afraid. JMO she was negligent, criminally negligent.

 

[Bennettfit]

You're comparing Ted Bundy to AG? That's on you.

No, not at all, I'm comparing AG to Ted Bundy. Lol

 

[BeachSky]

I do see her as a victim, and I know I'm in the minority.

13 1/2 hrs into a job. I'm tired after 9.

I think she thought this would all go away early on and LE would wave this off. In her warped mind, I think she felt "justified". I don't think she realized how f*ed she was until the trial proceeded.

I believe she's sincere when she says she hates herself every day. This is why I think she's on the path to self-destruction.

I enjoy your posts.So this is just MOO.
But if she is so unbelievably broken - why
not get off this ride months ago. Humble, humanly, sincerely face the punishment.
Her family & friends & the public would fight for justice for her if all of this were reversed.

 

[SandyQLS]

I was nearly shot one time while working out of town. I was working very long hours on a project start up and when I inserted my card key into the hotel door, it immediately jerked open and I was staring into the wrong end of a 45 caliber pistol. The man demanded to know wtf was I doing coming into his room. Needless to say, I was petrified. I tried to explain to him that it was my room. He backed me out into the hallway and finally I turned and quickly walked/ran to the hotel front desk. The customer service rep apologized to me and explained that they had messed up and did not have me there for two nights as I had booked and had removed my things and would move me to another room. I demanded to know more and explained to her that I had almost been shot. Didn't matter, it seemed LE was conducting an operation and needed that particular room. Just thought I would share.

Oh dear! I'm glad you are alright! You bring up a salient point though - a gun was drawn, but not fired until more assessment by the gun owner to see that you are not a threat. Hmmm.

 

[wyome]

I enjoy your posts.So this is just MOO.
But if she is so unbelievably broken - why
not get off this ride months ago. Humble, humanly, sincerely face the punishment.
Her family & friends & the public would fight for justice for her if all of this were reversed.

This is why I asked hour ago if she considered waving the jury trial and taking her punishment via judge.

Maybe her lawyer pushed her through? Idk

 

[gitana1]

I do see her as a victim, and I know I'm in the minority.

13 1/2 hrs into a job. I'm tired after 9.

I think she thought this would all go away early on and LE would wave this off. In her warped mind, I think she felt "justified". I don't think she realized how f*ed she was until the trial proceeded.

I believe she's sincere when she says she hates herself every day. This is why I think she's on the path to self-destruction.

I had sympathy for her at first. But as facts came out that eroded for me.

I thought she was exhausted too but she was planning a rendezvous with his partner for that night. Is that responsible? To be that exhausted and then seriously distracting yourself while carry a loaded weapon?

But her conduct after really shows me who she is. It was all about covering her rear and not saving Jean. There was no sense of horror at shooting an unarmed innocent man in the 911 call. Just a sense of horror that she would lose her job.

Then a couple days later she's texting jokes to her boyfriend, saying she wanted to get drunk and have sex. That really sucked out my sympathy for her.

Then she goes on a cruise.

I would have been so distraught I would have ended up in a hospital, after accidentally killing an unarmed innocent man. But she does on a cruise. Seriously?

Finally, I sort of think one has to be super vested in her innocence or victimhood in order to find her testimony credible. She seriously seemed phony and fake to most. And even then she was mostly self involved and it was about her. Not her victim.

Her testimony painted her in a terrible light to most.