GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[mickey2942]

Just saw the guilty verdict on the murder charge, and I’m still a whole thread behind. I’m frankly shocked after what I saw about the jury instructions stating the Castle Doctrine applied. I was already thinking she would walk even before that. Can’t wait to catch up and read everyone’s thoughts.

The prosecution addressed this in summation. Castle Doctrine should be applied for protecting your home, not this type of case.

 

[LilahFae]

Maybe I missed something, please forgive me if so. Is it possible that the jury wanted a definition of Castle Doctrine to determine if Jean was in his right if he did indeed "charge" at AG when she entered his apartment? (I don't believe he did based on bullet trajectory testimony.) If someone unlawfully enters your residence and you charge at them, do they then get to legally shoot you in self defense?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Is there a minimum sentence in Texas for murder?

Penalties for Murder
The penalties for murder and capital murder can be found in Chapter 12 of the Texas Penal Code. Under Section 12.32, the crime of murder is considered a felony in the first degree. This is punishable by the following:

• Fine: up to $10,000
• Prison sentence: between five and 99 years

Section 12.31 defines capital murder as a capital felony offense. If convicted of a capital felony, the options for punishment are life in prison or the death penalty. The minimum age in Texas that a person can receive the death penalty is seventeen years of age or older. When the death penalty is not sought in a capital felony crime, the options for punishment are as follows:

• Life in prison (mandatory): if the person committed the crime when younger than 18 years of age
• Life in prison without parole (mandatory): if the person committed the crime when 18 years of age or older

https://www.dfwcriminallawyer.com/murder/

 

[missingm]

ITA. There are several points of reversible error in the case, too. As for the overcharging and the verdict for murder, this case will bite Texans back more than they now realize as other cases that would be charged as manslaughter or negligence are also redefined as murder.

I cannot categorize AG as the same as Diane Zamora or Darlie Routier or 1000s of other Texas murderers. All MOO.

Manslaughter was one of the options for the jury. I think the confusion comes in where murder in Texas is more all encompassing than in other states. Other states break it up into 1st and 2nd degree.

The difference will come out in sentencing.

 

[Lillymac]

If this trial was right..why is everyone so shocked? There are those making the whole sordid affair about race.
It wasn't about race.

 

[sloane7777]

One thing I think is certain, we will not be hearing from Martin Rivera as a character witness.

(good one)

 

[BeachSky]

Maybe I missed something, please forgive me if so. Is it possible that the jury wanted a definition of Castle Doctrine to determine if Jean was in his right if he did indeed "charge" at AG when she entered his apartment? (I don't believe he did based on bullet trajectory testimony.) If someone unlawfully enters your residence and you charge at them, do they then get to legally shoot you in self defense?

That is a great point.

 

[missingm]

The prosecution addressed this in summation. Castle Doctrine should be applied for protecting your home, not this type of case.

She wasn't even "in" the apartment, hers or otherwise.

 

[blue22]

Manslaughter was one of the options for the jury. I think the confusion comes in where murder in Texas is more all encompassing than in other states. Other states break it up into 1st and 2nd degree.

The difference will come out in sentencing.

Seeing as how those people are convicted of capital murder and AG is convicted of murder, the difference is already there.

 

[Hraefn]

I was hoping for a manslaughter conviction and the consideration of the far less than stellar efforts to provide aid as aggravating circumstances supporting an increased sentence.

That aside, I think her appeal options are limited.

Appeals centered on claims of say an over all prosecution friendly judge, specific unfavorable decisions by the judge during the trial, or jury composition / jury conduct have a very high burden of proof in Texas in that “egregious errors” or actions “shocking to the conscious” must be shown.

But…. an appeal centered on a claim that the circumstances behind the criminal act do not match the historical application of the Murder charge in Texas might be able to meet such a burden.

For example, were reckless hunting accidents handled as manslaughter or murder? What about reckless vehicle accidents resulting in death? Or, reckless “Hold my beer- watch this” type stunts that led to the deaths of uninvolved people?

The State will probably accurately counter that none of the above examples of reckless loss of life involved somebody shooting a stranger in their own home. Even still, I think an appeal on these grounds is the best chance and could be successful and the conviction reduced to manslaughter.

I think they will start with an appeal on the “change of venue” issue, and IMO she is going to get new counsel and try “ineffective assistance of counsel” as well. And guarantee they are already attempting to interview jurors.

 

[sloane7777]

If this trial was right..why is everyone so shocked? There are those making the whole sordid affair about race.
It wasn't about race.

because even though we support LE , we needed this so a cop just cant walk into your house and murder you , usually LE gets off if there is a question this had no questions she admitted she intended to KILL but we aren't used to getting justice in these cop killings, that's why.

 

[Bennettfit]

The charges were wrong from the beginning. And it's painfully clear the jury didn't have a clue by their questions. Mistrial all the way. So many things they can appeal on.
I hope this doesn't seriously effect how LE can respond in the future.

Let's hope it does change the gung-ho behavior exhibited by some in LE.
I for one don't want to see anymore innocent people in their own homes shot and killed.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I think she will get 10 years MOO.

 

[kaen]

If this trial was right..why is everyone so shocked? There are those making the whole sordid affair about race.
It wasn't about race.

Speaking only for me. I did not have faith that a jury would be able to go beyond her uniform and look at the facts as I understood them. I watched the trial and became more convinced of her guilt. When the Castle Doctrine was allowed to be introduced, I saw it as a way to justify her actions while giving Mr. Jean no credit for being in his own home, minding his own business. So, in short, it was about the sway of her being an officer and the kind of investigation that was done initially. I think the charge was right and the verdict is fair.

 

[Kittybunny]

I admit to being pleasantly surprised at the verdict but that was the right call. Kudos to the jury for considering the verdict under the very specific Texas laws, not the general layman's terms for murder, which many uninformed people seem to trip up on. She point blank admitted on the stand that her intent was to kill him. I believe that she also really did make a mistake in thinking it was her apartment, but it was an unreasonable one. And then of course, there is what she actually did when she went in, which was to unholster her weapon before she even went in and knew what she would find, and shoot Mr. Jean without thought, consideration, prudence, or common sense, when she had many other options available to her as a LE officer wearing a uniform and carrying many non-lethal weapons, one of which included a cell phone. She could have:
1. Retreated and called 911
2. Knocked on the door and said "HEY! Who's in there? I'm a police officer, come out with your hands up" - and if she got no response, retreated and called 911
3. Paused, assessed the situation and then proceeded cautiously while issuing verbal commands (which although this is what she said she did, evidence, testimony, and bullet trajectory do not support)
4. Paused, assessed the situation, be like "Wait why is there someone in my apartment" looked at her surroundings which included a BRIGHT RED DOORMAT, read the apartment number, relaxed and laughed to herself, "Oh my god, I'm at the wrong apartment! What an idiot!" and got back on the elevator to continue sexting with her partner, leaving Mr. Jean to enjoy his bowl of ice cream with cookies

Sadly, none of these happened. What a tragedy all around, and yes, despite her callous behavior after, I do feel a bit sorry for her too, because who imagines that this would end this way? But my real heartbreak is for Botham Jean's family and friends who have to live without his bright light in the world.

 

[Cortne]

I think she will get 10 years MOO.

Hoping for at least 40. jmo

 

[kaen]

I think they will start with an appeal on the “change of venue” issue, and IMO she is going to get new counsel and try “ineffective assistance of counsel” as well. And guarantee they are already attempting to interview jurors.

The jurors are not yet dismissed. They will be back at 1pm CT. I fear you are right about the "ineffective assistance of counsel" for the appeal.

 

[gitana1]

The charges were wrong from the beginning. And it's painfully clear the jury didn't have a clue by their questions. Mistrial all the way. So many things they can appeal on.
I hope this doesn't seriously effect how LE can respond in the future.

Well the law in TX allowed for murder. Elsewhere it would be manslaughter I believe. Or second degree murder.

It's no mistrial. That would be during trial before it concludes.

I doubt there are grounds for appeal. what grounds do you see? It has to be specific. Like the court made an error of law. Juror misconduct. Etc.

As to how LE can respond? Why would it have an impact on that? She wasn't responding to a call to police. And she didn't respond according to her department's very clear protocol. They already prohibit such a response.

Do you believe cops should be allowed to kill people no matter what because to hold them accountable ever would be to hinder their ability to enforce the law?

She wasn't enforcing the law. She was violating it. And we don't live in a police state. Which is what the verdict reflects.

 

[Amster]

This is what I'm thinking her sentence should be. Her life for the innocent life she took.

Well, here in Texas, you kill somebody....we kill you back. Unfortunately, for those hoping for public hanging or lethal injection for AG, this was not a death penalty case. So, best you can get is life w/o parole or 99 years I think. Maybe some torture since she’s a former LE. Too bad Casey Anthony didn’t have this jury.....

 

[SailorMoon]

Now Dominque Alexander and his big celebration party will demand the protection of the police that he hates. IMO she would have shot whoever was in that apartment. Man, woman, black, white, purple. I don't think she got out of her truck thinking I'm going to kill someone right now. A tragic accident, and yet you can't just say - oops, my bad.