TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #23

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Superchicken thought provoking question and I am a newbie here too. Trying to learn or understand.

There is the "last person to see the victim" seed planted. But what made me become worried was that the time for last seen by SA was out of his normal routine. BD thought he came home on lunch break but it ended up being much later than the lunch hour. I've also wondered how normal it was for him to drive that distance just for lunch. Isnt that a long lunch break?
 
Brwnigirl said:
SA guilty..really it was a combination of:
1)He failed lie detector
2) he was the last person to see HD, said she went to a friends
3) he went to work and left abruptly, later lied about being fired
4) called HD "promiscuous".

BD may be involved
1) saw her in videos

Lies, Lies, Lies
Click to expand...

That's what I mean. For you, it all went downhill at a specific point in time. When I read the threads at night I feel overwhelmed sometimes. There is SO much incredible information here--so many great ideas. I try to look for each individual posters "Ah -ha" moment. Sometime it comes down to "mama knows..." (and papa too, of course)
 
I can't help but wonder if she really knew where the 16 year old was all night, and then in and out of the house. He's not old enough to be on his own either. On the other hand, maybe SA knew how long he'd be gone and didn't think he'd be coming back to the house at all that day when caught in the hall.

My ah ha moment isn't lie detectors or the bizarre hobby. It's that he went to work and left, allegedly lied about it, then had 2.5 hours of unaccounted time, or at least no cell phone pings showing up when they should have.
 
WideOpen said:
Superchicken thought provoking question and I am a newbie here too. Trying to learn or understand.

There is the "last person to see the victim" seed planted. But what made me become worried was that the time for last seen by SA was out of his normal routine. BD thought he came home on lunch break but it ended up being much later than the lunch hour. I've also wondered how normal it was for him to drive that distance just for lunch. Isnt that a long lunch break?
Click to expand...

This site is humbling, isn't it? I can't figure it out, but I would LOVE to hear everyone's opinion on this subject. I think the majority of people here are parents and , of course, victim's advocates. Hurting a child is anathema to everyone here. We all want to believe that parents instinctively protect their children, and unfortunately we all realize that's not the case sometimes. In keeping with that, in cases like Hailey's, we have to rely on our own instincts in hindsight. That's the only reason I asked that question and why I believe that the answer is in each of our responses.
 
txsvicki said:
I can't help but wonder if she really knew where the 16 year old was all night, and then in and out of the house. He's not old enough to be on his own either. On the other hand, maybe SA knew how long he'd be gone and didn't think he'd be coming back to the house at all that day when caught in the hall.

My ah ha moment isn't lie detectors or the bizarre hobby. It's that he went to work and left, allegedly lied about it, then had 2.5 hours of unaccounted time, or at least no cell phone pings showing up when they should have.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
SuperChicken said:
Everyone on this thread is suspicious about someone in this case. The timeline has always been a concern for everyone. Everyone is concerned about lies and who the lies were directed to. My question is simply this: When was the first lie told? What initial suspected "lie" set off your hinky meters? Was it:

4.) When BD saw HD in her bed Monday morning but didn't "touch her and see if it was really her?"
Sorry to say it but this to me sounded almost exactly what Adam Baker said was the last time he saw Zahra.

5.) When SA walked off of his job and didn't tell BD immediately?
Not only that but it appears he returned to Hailey's home instead of going to his mothers as reported and he told BD.

When polygraphs detected deception? (Just pick someone...)
SA
I think you all see where I'm going with this. When was the first time you suspected someone wasn't being honest? The answer is there.
Click to expand...

#5 stands out most prominent.
 
SuperChicken said:
This site is humbling, isn't it? I can't figure it out, but I would LOVE to hear everyone's opinion on this subject. I think the majority of people here are parents and , of course, victim's advocates. Hurting a child is anathema to everyone here. We all want to believe that parents instinctively protect their children, and unfortunately we all realize that's not the case sometimes. In keeping with that, in cases like Hailey's, we have to rely on our own instincts in hindsight. That's the only reason I asked that question and why I believe that the answer is in each of our responses.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Yes, this is a thoughtful and diverse group of fair and deeply caring hearts and minds.

Once again, a very thoughtful post!
 
SuperChicken said:
Everyone on this thread is suspicious about someone in this case. The timeline has always been a concern for everyone. Everyone is concerned about lies and who the lies were directed to. My question is simply this: When was the first lie told? What initial suspected "lie" set off your hinky meters? Was it:

1.) The exact time HD left CD's house on Sunday?

2.) The exact time BD says she saw HD on Sunday night?

3.) The exact time DD saw HD playing video games Sunday night? (DD left at 9:00 Sunday night and didn't return until Tuesday? Really? Why wasn't BD worried about him too?) "Wonderful parent" that she is....

4.) When BD saw HD in her bed Monday morning but didn't "touch her and see if it was really her?"

5.) When SA walked off of his job and didn't tell BD immediately?

6.) When the ATM withdrawals were made?

7.) When no one attempted to call HD Monday night?

8.) When we found out neither CD or MB saw or heard from HD? (When we foudn out MB and HD had never spent the night at each other's house and MB's mom had never seen BD until she saw her on NG.)

9.) When DD had to climb through a window to enter his own home and saw SA in the hallway with the "deer caught in the headlights look?"

10.) When polygraphs detected deception? (Just pick someone...)

I think you all see where I'm going with this. When was the first time you suspected someone wasn't being honest? The answer is there.
Click to expand...

I've had many "hmmmm" moments throughout, but try to keep open mind and remind myself that there are a lot of "facts" we haven't even heard yet.

But my heart truly sank when I read the affadavits, and specifically that gap in time (2-1/2 hours unaccounted for). After that, I've felt strongly that SA has done something horrible to poor HD. I just keep going back to that gap. What were you doing SA? What?
 
justus4all said:
I agree...furthermore....BD said she peeked in on H that morning before she left for work at 6?...but does not say...she SAW her....only some covers and assumed H was in bed.........she just assumed....and is NOT CLAIMING ..my child WAS in bed when I left for work...perhaps it is the way I am "feeling" about her statement...I feel she is "distancing" herself from saying she KNEW POSITIVELY ..she was in her bed....that's how I feel about the way she said it.....imo..
If I am incorrect in how BD said this, please correct me...I do sometimes mis interpet statements wrong...thanks
Click to expand...

I think that Billie looked in, and saw what appeared to be Hailey in her bed, asleep. She left for work believing that is what she saw. She believed that up until the minute that MBG said Hailey had not slept over. At some time after that point, someone asked when she last saw Hailey and she said she had seen her in the bed. She was probably grilled until she acknowledged that she was not 100% SURE it was Hailey, but the logical assumption on Monday morning was that it was.

I think she realized that Hailey COULD have been gone sooner, and that saying she had made sure that it was definitely Hailey in the bed might have made her seem to be a better parent, but would not help in the investigation, and would make her look worse if it eventually came to light that Hailey was NOT there after Billie had insisted that she had verified that she was.

All my opinion only.
 
I am EXTREMELY puzzled why AD told investigators that he was fired. I don't get that at all. And to show up at work for 10 minutes, get the soda and leave. Weird! I wonder if his work called him and said.uh hey . Where are you? Didn't we just see you in the break room?

And I am extremely disturbed that BD never tried to contact Hailey DIRECTLY at some point to make sure she was indeed spending the night at MB's house. That tells me that Hailey is NOT her mother's first priority.
 
MHO

A very small southern town

Economically depressed area

A girl named Hailey is missing

Hailey described as happy and sweet

She has a brother

Mom has a very young live in boyfriend

Mom was "at work"

House searched

Car impounded

Boyfriend moves back in with famly

Inconsistent statements

Failed Polys, more Polys

Parents estranged

LE can't get an accurate timeline

Work hours questioned

"illegal " narcotics used

Dad has a drug record

Mom has alleged drug use

Supposed issues with custody

Dad living with girlfriend and has other children

Cigarette smokers

Drinking during get togethers

Searches conducted in large rural areas

Mom and Dad don't get along

Mom defending boyfriend's statements

Men into hunting

LE investigation techniques are questioned

No sheets appear on girl's bed and mattress on floor

Mom and boyfriend on NG together

Grandma on NG

They love "that little girl"

Very selfish, immature behavior by parents

Days become weeks...


I have seen this case before and it scares me
 
Been going over transcripts etc....
(paraphrased)
BD was asked by NG where were Hailey's sheets....
BD answered she gave the SHEET to LE for the scent for the dogs.
My question or thought.......
Why only a sheet as in singular. Did Hailey have a comforter, bedspread, blanket, flat sheet, top sheet, pillowcases? It's the middle of winter surely she had more on the bed besides a SHEET.
This bothers me and it could be that I have 2 sheets, blanket, bedspread and a quilt folded at the bottom of each of my beds as well as pillowcases on pillows and shams on pillows and decorative pillows. In the first pics we saw of Hailey's room we saw that the mattress was on the floor...why? Then in recent pics the mattress was put back on the bed, clothes were folded neatly (a friend folded the clothes according to BD) but still no bedspread or sheets were put back on the bed. BD only stated that LE took the one sheet.....
Insight anyone??????
JMO

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/13/ng.01.html
 
crimejunkie said:
If it helps here is links to pics/video of both of the trucks--the one at BD's and the one in front of SA's mom's house (brought over from my post in the last thread):

Truck in the background during BD interview outside of BD's house:
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=331666


Black truck in front of his mother's house and mentioned in the video as believed to be" SA's truck.
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=331686

TEH mentioned that she did not think they were the same truck. I can't enlarge one of the videos to full screen, so I can't tell myself.
Click to expand...
Not the same truck- the one in the second video is a model at least8-10 years later than the first, imo the second is a Chevy Silverado, mid 90's- the first is a 1980-ish Chev. Silverado Single Cab

edited to fix link
 
SuperChicken said:
That's what I mean. For you, it all went downhill at a specific point in time. When I read the threads at night I feel overwhelmed sometimes. There is SO much incredible information here--so many great ideas. I try to look for each individual posters "Ah -ha" moment. Sometime it comes down to "mama knows..." (and papa too, of course)
Click to expand...

I've suspected Shawn all along as everyone has but the fact that he showed up for work and then just left and then lied about being fired the very same day Hailey goes missing is huge. I have to say my "mama knows" moment is the brothers comments about knocking on the door with no answer when he got home the day Hailey went missing. He had to climb into the window to get in the house and then once he finally got in Shawn had been in the house the whole time he was knocking and he just stood there with a "deer in the headlights" look. That gave me chills.
 
It seems to me that BD has been VERY influenced and contolled by SA--she even looks a bit less spacey in the past few days now that he's away from her, like she's waking up from a dream.

I think he's been manipulating her for so long that she's not aware of it--many people who are being highly manipulated day in and day out don't fully realize how bad the situation is until they finally get away from the manipulator--it can take some time to wear off. It could be that this is why she just accepted at face value what he was telling her about Hailey's plans for the night, because he wanted her to not check on anything, and she's been "trained" by him to follow his lead and go along with his games--starting their housekeeping together with death threats shows what kind of plans he had for her from the get-go.

I'm still not sure if she's guilty of helping him or not (or just plain guilty), but I'm just about positive that she's no match for him. Her unusually naive, child-like looks are probably what attracted him in the first place--with poor Hailey just being the icing on the cake. I bet he took one look at her MySpace pic and thought she looked like the perfect subject.

I wonder what broke up her marriage with CD--like if it was his infidelity. If it was, then I think he's at least somewhat responsible for this probable tragedy. He's a good-looking guy, and could have been a real player or frequently getting "hit on" by women--

I guess I want to stick up for her because she looks, acts and sounds like someone who could live right down the road from me--I'm not that far from Colorado City.

On the other hand, it's easy to be fooled--I though Zarah's father was innocent at first, too-
 
tehcloser
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in the Piney Woods.....
Posts: 10,059
This is day 18. Day 18. She has had time to come to grips with the possibility that he might have done something to her daughter. If she's not guilty of something herself...she would have already accepted it and be trying to do everything she can to find her daughter. She's not. She is however worried about what people think about her and pondering whether to take SA back or not..........pppffftttt. WHAT ABOUT HAILEY, when is she going to put her first? Honestly the only other case I can remember someone digging in like this is CA. Most parents when hit over and over with evidence someone is involved with their child's disappearance accepts it and acts accordingly.
__________________
If there's hink....there must be stink.


I just wanted to bring this excellent post from "tehcloser" over from the last thread...this sums it up for me in regard to BD.

also, the first hinky think in this case for me was that the live-in bf was the last to see hd claiming that she said she was to sleep over at a friends. my first "thud" was in response to finding out that the bf had NOT been fired. and then my loudest "thud" was in response to BD flat out lying/failing to respond TWO TIMES(on NG) about her admitting to le that she bought illegal narcotics ...

BD's demeanor is just OFF. this doesnt prove that she is a killer or protecting a killer but it surely is telling us something i just dont know for sure what that may be. i want to believe her, but unfortunately i do not believe her. every time i hear her say " i dont know" my hinkometer registers... i find it concerning that she has not plead for hd's return or "spoken" to hd thru the media professing her love for her and vowing to find her. i think that not doing any of these things is suspicious. it seems that in her opinon (bd's) either its not her fault OR she doesnt/didnt know... as tho she has no power or impact on her own life... i dont see how that could be possible.

the other night on ng, nancy was talking about sa calling hd promiscuous... and then asked bd why he would say such a thing and then asked how sa talked about hd to bd, "what did he say about hd to you (bd)? and bd's answer was " he said I DID A WONDERFUL JOB WITH HER. wtf? it seems like she wont directly talk about hd, only around he edges of the topic of hd. but she will talk all day long about herself or sa. sad... :(
 
Good morning all.

Are they still searching the landfill? Did they search through the night? any new developments? TIA
 
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