Identified! TX - Houston, WhtFem 18-25, UP701 & WhtMale 20-30, UP703, in woods, Jan'81 - Dean and Tina Clouse

[Skyval]

My feeling is they were in the cult, left the baby with members whilst they went to do something, met a horrific fate & the cult members then took the baby to the church as They didn't know where the parents had gone.

Yes, but why would these possibly same women return the car to Dean's mother and tell her they were cutting ties when they were already months dead? Seems Dean had an interest in cults prior to his death so definitely possible they became involved in one. But the cult women still had the car. So many questions.

 

[evilwise]

I think everyone reading here ought to go back to the earlier part of this thread and re-read Walkingproof’s posts. He apparently wa conceived when his Mom was raped. The rapist was quite possibly also responsible for Gayle Carter who was also an UID, and buried alongside Dean and Tina Clouse I believe. Before we all jump into the religious cult theory, this alternative also needs consideration. Jmo.

There was another body found with the Clouses? Do you have a source on that? It would make a huge difference. As it is, I'm sure that the religious group who returned the car had direct knowledge of the murders if not perpetrated them themselves. Not necessarily the people who returned the car but damn, if they were detained and questioned by police their identities should be on file and they could be connected to someone with answers for sure.

 

[DSCrime]

These abandoned children are making me think of a video that I can't find where an expert described how children represent a real problem for cults. They remind the parents of an emotional bond that should supersede the parents' attachment to the cult ideology.

If I find the video I'll post.

Found it. Cult expert Ian Haworth discusses how children represent a problem for cults. Appears towards end of video, where he discusses scene from 1973 The Wicker Man film:

overall very informative, imo

 

[MagicCityMan]

From the presser:
Baby Holly was left at a church in Arizona by a religious group.
The women fit the description as the woman who brought the car back to Dean's family.
The women were nomadic and wore robes.

The family who raised Holly are not suspects

I will wait until the media can transcribe and fill in the details!

So, these women drove across the country to return a car but didn't bother to return the baby?? What the actual f...?

 

[Friday Fan]

There was another body found with the Clouses? Do you have a source on that? It would make a huge difference. As it is, I'm sure that the religious group who returned the car had direct knowledge of the murders if not perpetrated them themselves. Not necessarily the people who returned the car but damn, if they were detained and questioned by police their identities should be on file and they could be connected to someone with answers for sure.

From the presser: there is no record of this
And what's strange: A few months ago, Dean's mom didn't say anything about them being detained.
She only stated that she talked to police who patronized the restaurant where she worked
(Sounded like she was getting advice about Dean's vehicle)

Another article states that she met the women at Daytona Speedway late at night.
Since this is the age before cell phones, obviously she did not call the police from Daytona Speedway

MOO: Did a police officer accompany her? Maybe she had an officer with her for her protection? (This was not unusual back then)

Some pressers lately have had me questioning a few things because they have ever-changing facts....MOO

After 40 years, a murdered Houston couple has finally been identified. Where is their missing baby?

If the missing Houston baby is still alive, she would be turning 42 — although she...

www.houstonchronicle.com

42 years later, a murdered Texas couple's missing baby has finally been found

More than 40 years ago, a Houston couple was brutally murdered. Their baby has been...

www.expressnews.com

 

[Vern]

Yes, but why would these possibly same women return the car to Dean's mother and tell her they were cutting ties when they were already months dead? Seems Dean had an interest in cults prior to his death so definitely possible they became involved in one. But the cult women still had the car. So many questions.

And ... why wouldn't they return Holly to family as well as the car. This just stinks to high heaven.

 

[Friday Fan]

There was another body found with the Clouses? Do you have a source on that? It would make a huge difference.

According to the Doe Network the Clouses were found at 13500 Wallisville Road which is here: 13500 Wallisville Rd · 13500 Wallisville Rd, Houston, TX 77049

Gayle Cater was found in a Bayou near the town of Wallisville

Big Hog Bayou · Texas 77597

★★★★☆ · Strait

goo.gl

So, I don't think it was the same site
Gayle Cater and another woman apparently lived near where the Clouses were found, but their bodies were dumped in another county. There was also a serial rapist involved in those cases.

 

[Friday Fan]

Article is from March - Before Holly was found.....A fairly in depth article about Dean and Tina

Who Killed Texas Couple Dean and Tina Clouse—and Where Is Their Baby?

A group of sleuths using "genetic genealogy" has broken open a 40-year-old cold case.

www.texasobserver.org

A 1980 article in the Washington Post about a cult named Christ Family (group referenced in the Texas Observer article)
Mentions they were vegetarians and barefoot and were known to be in Yuma, AZ.
The group had their bank account in California
The founder appears to be from Southern California
The group also believes in celibacy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...claimed/6f5e70f6-8acf-4f4b-a85c-5593246485fb/

Leader of Religious Sect Sentenced For Drug Offenses

RIVERSIDE, Calif. (AP) _ Lightning Amen, leader of a desert-dwelling religious sect, was sentenced to five years in prison for drug offenses during a court session disrupted by outbursts from his followers. Riverside Superior Court Judge Howard M. Dabney rejected a plea for probation for...

apnews.com

Cults were common then, so who knows if it's the same one!

 

[LucyOso]

Baby Holly is alive! A baby who went missing after her parents' death over 40 years ago is found alive

 

[Friday Fan]

Bringing this over from Holly's thread:

Detectives tried to obtain Holly's birth certificate in Florida, but it was sealed
When they finally obtained the birth certificate, there was an adoption attached to it!

(At the 2 min mark)

I just assumed the robed women dropped off a random baby, but did they also have Holly's birth certificate??

If they did, how did they obtain it??

Did the authorities/adoption agency try to locate Dean and Tina???

If strange clothed women show up with a baby and a birth certificate with Tina and Dean listed as the parents, wouldn't authorities look for them?? And wouldn't the grandparents names be on the birth certificate??

Watch: Family of 'Baby Holly' reveals how they found her after 40+ years - CNN Video​

The aunt and grandmother of "Baby Holly," the missing infant daughter of a slain couple who was found alive more than four decades later, explain how investigators were able to track her down and reunite her with family.

 

[MarziPanda]

Really quite terrible that the authorities knew Holly was Holly but made no attempt to look for her parents or talk to her grandparents. I would hope that these days they would especially as familial adoption is preferred.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Peacock wanted to recognize the Clouse and Linn families who collaborated with FHD Forensics and then started a memorial fund to help families who may be going through similar situations, she said.

"(The Clouse and Linn families) want to be a miracle for other families," Peacock said. "They donated some seed money ... in about 10 days we've already raised enough to do two complete investigations on two unidentified remains cases. They want to do 10 cases."

Donations are being accepted for the Dean and Tina Linn Clouse Memorial Fund at the FHD Forensics website.

Longview native's forensics company helps identify long-missing daughter of murder victims

Longview native and professional genealogist Allison Peacock often refers one of her former cases as the "Romeo and Juliet" couple.

www.news-journal.com

 

[Snoopster]

I am late to this case. But I hope LE is well on the way to finding the murderer(s).

Did @Walkingproof ever respond to the question about who his father was and when he was arrested?

 

[Betty P]

Just thought I'd post this here.

Watch 'Baby Holly,' who went missing 40 years ago, reunite with her family

In 1981, an unidentified couple was found murdered and their baby missing. Four decades later, watch the family reunite with the missing baby on "Good Morning America."

www.goodmorningamerica.com

Here's a recent article from the Fox News affiliate. WFIN radio did a podcast discussing their investigation into the murders and where it stands today.

True crime podcast ‘What About Holly?’ reveals stunning new details in 41-year-old cold case - WFIN Local News

The remains of a murdered couple found in Texas have been identified as Dean and Tina Clouse -- but the discovery led to questions about their young daughter.

wfin.com

 

[LetsSolvIt]

@Betty P — so glad you posted this podcast “What About Holly?” Thank you!

MOO, but I think it is a balanced discussion, which includes plenty of detail and primary source recordings. Valuable listening for those following this case.

True crime podcast ‘What About Holly?’ reveals stunning new details in 41-year-old cold case - WFIN Local News

The remains of a murdered couple found in Texas have been identified as Dean and Tina Clouse -- but the discovery led to questions about their young daughter.

wfin.com

‎What About Holly? on Apple Podcasts

‎True Crime · 2022

podcasts.apple.com

Certainly hope they haven’t given up on trying to solve the murders.

 

[Friday Fan]

@Betty P — so glad you posted this podcast “What About Holly?” Thank you!

MOO, but I think it is a balanced discussion, which includes plenty of detail and primary source recordings. Valuable listening for those following this case.

True crime podcast ‘What About Holly?’ reveals stunning new details in 41-year-old cold case - WFIN Local News

The remains of a murdered couple found in Texas have been identified as Dean and Tina Clouse -- but the discovery led to questions about their young daughter.

wfin.com

‎What About Holly? on Apple Podcasts

‎True Crime · 2022

podcasts.apple.com

Certainly hope they haven’t given up on trying to solve the murders.

Fascinating! I tried listening when it first came out, but couldn't access it. Now it's available on my Windows PC!


May - Aug 1980 Dean and Tina live in Baltimore, MD
Aug 1980 Dean and Tina move to Lewisville, Texas and live with Dean's cousin for barely one month.
Sept 1980?? Dean and Tina move to an apartment. The apartment is put in Dean's uncle's name (Cosigned?) Very shortly later, (about one week??) the landlord calls Dean's uncle requesting the rent. Dean and Tina have disappeared.
Oct 1980 A letter written to Tina in Texas is "returned to sender" with no forwarding address.
Jan 1981 Man calls Dean's mom about her vehicle. Dean's mother meets with that women at Daytona Speedway and vehicle is returned.

I have always gotten the impression that "Sister Susan et al" were never seriously questioned by police in Florida. Police were primarily at the racetrack for Dean's mother's protection and did this for her as a favor. Legally, they could not be detained, much less taken to a police station. They were not accused of any crime. (Yeah the car stuff was shady, but it was 1980. Donna's vehicle was returned. Dean supposedly had joined a cult) The police probably gave them a ride to a bus station or something.
No employment information available from Dr Horton, but that doesn't mean Dean didn't work with a contractor.

 

[Betty P]

Fascinating! I tried listening when it first came out, but couldn't access it. Now it's available on my Windows PC!


May - Aug 1980 Dean and Tina live in Baltimore, MD
Aug 1980 Dean and Tina move to Lewisville, Texas and live with Dean's cousin for barely one month.
Sept 1980?? Dean and Tina move to an apartment. The apartment is put in Dean's uncle's name (Cosigned?) Very shortly later, (about one week??) the landlord calls Dean's uncle requesting the rent. Dean and Tina have disappeared.
Oct 1980 A letter written to Tina in Texas is "returned to sender" with no forwarding address.
Jan 1981 Man calls Dean's mom about her vehicle. Dean's mother meets with that women at Daytona Speedway and vehicle is returned.

I have always gotten the impression that "Sister Susan et al" were never seriously questioned by police in Florida. Police were primarily at the racetrack for Dean's mother's protection and did this for her as a favor. Legally, they could not be detained, much less taken to a police station. They were not accused of any crime. (Yeah the car stuff was shady, but it was 1980. Donna's vehicle was returned. Dean supposedly had joined a cult) The police probably gave them a ride to a bus station or something.
No employment information available from Dr Horton, but that doesn't mean Dean didn't work with a contractor.

JMO, I find it noteworthy that former cult members are inserting themselves into the current investigation, attempting to influence the narrative about the cult and its activities related to the murdered couple and their kidnapped baby.

Hopefully, LE will hear from other former cult members who were there at the same time as Dean and Tina.

When you look at the timeline, it doesn't appear they were "with" the cult for very long. It seems odd, JMO, that one week they would be renting an apartment, working at a new job, settling in with their baby and a week later joint a cult, disappear and allegedly give away their baby.

Aug 1980 Dean and Tina move to Lewisville, Texas and live with Dean's cousin for barely one month.

Sept 1980?? Dean and Tina move to an apartment. The apartment is put in Dean's uncle's name (Cosigned?) Very shortly later, (about one week??) the landlord calls Dean's uncle requesting the rent. Dean and Tina have disappeared.

Oct 1980 A letter written to Tina in Texas is "returned to sender" with no forwarding address.

Murdered sometime between late November 1980 and January 5, 1981

Jan 12, 1981 Dean and Tina's bodies are found 270 miles away in a wooded area outside of Houston, TX

One week they're sending home photos of their adored little child, the next they're giving her away? Two months later, their bodies are found 270 miles away outside Houston, TX?

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Lewisville,+TX/13500+Wallisville+Road,+Houston,+TX/@31.3918096,-98.3431969,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x864c2c75c10c5065:0xf1a21a5dca2b198d!2m2!1d-96.9941903!2d33.0463292!1m5!1m1!1s0x8640a4e9f3ec2701:0x5e8f40e8d3621e58!2m2!1d-95.2047039!2d29.8086606

Seems unlikely they would relocate to Lewisville, TX for a new job, rent an apartment, get some furniture, etc. if they planned to join a cult. JMO

Their estimated time of death was 1 - 6 weeks before their bodies were found, so that puts their possible deaths between the first week of January to the last week of November 1980.

How did Dean and Tina end up murdered 270 miles from their apartment? Where were the members of the cult living at that time? Were they in the Dallas/Ft Worth area, where the Clouses were living or were they operating out of Houston, TX?
If they allegedly gave up their apartment and joined this cult, did they join it in the DFW area?
If they allegedly joined this cult, where were they staying? In a building? A motel? Sleeping on the streets? Where did the cult members live? Did they have a house? It was late fall, early winter in north Texas, so it was probably getting cold. Not good weather for sleeping outdoors.

 

[Betty P]

According to Wikipedia, Dean and Tina had different causes of death

Dean was bound and beaten to death and Tina was strangled.

Murders of Dean and Tina Clouse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who Killed Texas Couple Dean and Tina Clouse—and Where Is Their Baby?

A group of sleuths using "genetic genealogy" has broken open a 40-year-old cold case.

www.texasobserver.org

The above article says the couple sent home a Christmas letter in December 1980. It was the letter that contained the photo of little Holly standing in her "walker".

Police believe Dean died defending his wife and child. JMO, Tina was probably strangled because she refused to give up her child. (JMO)

Tina was found wearing green athletic shorts. JMO, it sounds like she was indoors when she was killed. Even in north Texas, in December or January, the weather is cold. She had no coat or sweater.

Dean was a skilled cabinet maker, so he would have no problem finding a job in the DFW area in 1980. Population was booming, during a big migration of companies and people moving to the "sun belt" states where weather was warmer and business taxes lower.

 

[Keishi]

Gayle Cater was picked up in this same area Sept of 1978. She was found dumped in a lake about 20 miles away. I have her death certificate and Autopsy that confirms location her address last seen alive at her Maxy rd location.

During the course of the investigation there was 2nd woman picked up on Maxey/Federal Road. She was raped but was able to get away. She described her attacker. With a brownish blonde hair/blue eyes she describe the truck a d somehow knew he was Originally from Alabama.

3rd Victim was my biological mother. She was picked up on Maxey rd (1 mile from Gayle Caters home) Take into the approximate same location and was allegedly left for dead. After she was released from the hospital she was admitted to the psychiatric hospital in Austin Texas. A month or so later she found out she was pregnant with me.


3 Victims/1 murder all within a 1 to 2 mile radius.
My biological father was caught
A couple of months later when attempting to rape a husband and wife in Freeport Texas. So at the very least I can say without a doubt he was a serial rapist. Based on circumstantial evidence, I believe he’s responsible for much more.

1 more key note to the story that I did not make clear above Is that not only were they all 3 crimes within 1-2 mile radius the 3 attacks where also with a 2-3 week time period. I would say the likelihood of these being connected is very high.

If you're unaware since your last post, the parents and baby (Holly) have been identified. The baby is alive and grew up after being abandoned in Arizona.

Biological family of 'Baby Holly' speaks about finding her four decades later

The vanished baby of a murdered couple found in Houston in the 1980s was identified and found alive this week, now her birth family speaks out.

abc13.com

Who Killed Texas Couple Dean and Tina Clouse—and Where Is Their Baby?

A group of sleuths using "genetic genealogy" has broken open a 40-year-old cold case.

www.texasobserver.org

I would like to suggest there is a chance Terry Rasmussen could be connected. He worked at Brown & Root while living in Ingleside, TX. He stole the identity of Curtis Mayo Kimball (a Brown & Root employee). There are other connections that may exist between Rasmussen and other victims in this area.

Holly's story is very similar to "Lisa" Dawn Beaudin; after her mother was murdered, she accompanied the killer, Terry, as his "daughter". Several times in his life, Terry lived in California, Arizona, Texas, and New Hampshire. "Lisa" survived her childhood and is a living witness. She reported seeing other small children and possibly an infant with Terry.

 

[Betty P]

If you're unaware since your last post, the parents and baby (Holly) have been identified. The baby is alive and grew up after being abandoned in Arizona.

Biological family of 'Baby Holly' speaks about finding her four decades later

The vanished baby of a murdered couple found in Houston in the 1980s was identified and found alive this week, now her birth family speaks out.

abc13.com

Who Killed Texas Couple Dean and Tina Clouse—and Where Is Their Baby?

A group of sleuths using "genetic genealogy" has broken open a 40-year-old cold case.

www.texasobserver.org

I would like to suggest there is a chance Terry Rasmussen could be connected. He worked at Brown & Root while living in Ingleside, TX. He stole the identity of Curtis Mayo Kimball (a Brown & Root employee). There are other connections that may exist between Rasmussen and other victims in this area.

Holly's story is very similar to "Lisa" Dawn Beaudin; after her mother was murdered, she accompanied the killer, Terry, as his "daughter". Several times in his life, Terry lived in California, Arizona, Texas, and New Hampshire. "Lisa" survived her childhood and is a living witness. She reported seeing other small children and possibly an infant with Terry.

What could have possibly been a motive for Terry Rasmussen to kill Dean and Tina? Hadn't Rasmussen only killed wives, girlfriends, etc.?