TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

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A lot of college kids were also prison guards, because in Texas you can be a prison guard part time, you can also tutor inmates to help them get GEDS, you can do walk throughs, observations. To be a prison guard now you don't have to do much, so in the 80s, I'm sure it was even more laxed. My only reasoning for bringing up the college kids is that the Hitching post had all kinds, even families just doing to fuel up and get food. So the suspect list is super long, cops, truckers, guards, college kids, mechanics, a random serial killer, an inmate recently released.... BUT I do feel she was in route to trying to get to the Ellis Unit... It was 1980, Saturday night, Halloween.... Lots of people were out and about. I'm sure the Hitching post had a after bar hours crowd.
 
Finally just spoke to my dad, so in the 70s and 80s they were more laid back about visitation. He doesn't think a minor that was 17 would've been questioned too much and would've been allowed in to visit. Now they do back ground checks and you have to be on an Approval list, that wasn't the case then. He feels like she most likely would've been allowed in as long as she knew the name and inmate number of the inmate unless he was in the hole. He can't remember if you had to be family to visit in 1980 but said people would just lie and say they were a cousin or sister. My dad was in the Holiday Unit in Huntsville and then shipped to Livingston at the Polunsky unit. He only did 3 years state time in 1979-1982, so he was around the prison system when WCJD died... Said he never heard of her until today. WOW. That tells me they only went to the Ellis Unit. I asked if he thinks he would remember being asked about a dead girl in a photo and he said he thinks he would. My dad also told me that in 1980 a lot of young kids hitchhiked and nobody thought twice about it...
 
Izzy77523 said:
See, now you're going down the rabbit hole with me.
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It's a decent rabbit hole. When you know people that have been locked up, or gotten into some trouble yourself, or stripped and then you get killed people are going to jump on things thinking that will lead them to your killer. It could be the guy no one would expect.
 
Izzy77523 said:
Finally just spoke to my dad, so in the 70s and 80s they were more laid back about visitation. He doesn't think a minor that was 17 would've been questioned too much and would've been allowed in to visit. Now they do back ground checks and you have to be on an Approval list, that wasn't the case then. He feels like she most likely would've been allowed in as long as she knew the name and inmate number of the inmate unless he was in the hole. He can't remember if you had to be family to visit in 1980 but said people would just lie and say they were a cousin or sister. My dad was in the Holiday Unit in Huntsville and then shipped to Livingston at the Polunsky unit. He only did 3 years state time in 1979-1982, so he was around the prison system when WCJD died... Said he never heard of her until today. WOW. That tells me they only went to the Ellis Unit. I asked if he thinks he would remember being asked about a dead girl in a photo and he said he thinks he would. My dad also told me that in 1980 a lot of young kids hitchhiked and nobody thought twice about it...
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Uber is like paying to hitchhike. lol. That's interesting he didn't hear about her. You think they could have made an announcement or had a few fliers handed out in other units. Inmates can be transferred also if she was a runaway she might not have been in contact with whoever she was looking for. Did he mention if there were certain visitation times? Was Ellis different? Was it for more violent offenders? Was your dad with lifers or did they keep people separate depending on their sentences?
 
cherrymeg said:
Uber is like paying to hitchhike. lol. That's interesting he didn't hear about her. You think they could have made an announcement or had a few fliers handed out in other units. Inmates can be transferred also if she was a runaway she might not have been in contact with whoever she was looking for. Did he mention if there were certain visitation times? Was Ellis different? Was it for more violent offenders? Was your dad with lifers or did they keep people separate depending on their sentences?
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Ellis Unit was definitely different during this time. In the 1980's, the Ellis Unit housed male death row inmates. I looked it up just to be sure & Ellis Unit housed male death row inmates from 1965 to 1999.
 
Izzy77523 said:
I don't think she was a working girl but if she was desperate and approached who is to say she wouldn't have considered it. We can't even say without a doubt she wasn't raped. Just because there is no semen doesn't mean she wasn't violated. I can't see a woman being the suspect. You're right when saying it was interesting that she specifically asked about the Ellis Unit. She would've seen signs for the Holiday and Walls Unit on highway 45... That alone tells me she had a destination. I saw guards solicit the girls in 2000, I'm sure it was happening 20 years earlier as well. Never saw a cop do it.

Now, this is the part that I feel like a dumbass for not thinking about it before. Not sure how many are aware of this.... But Huntsville is home to one if the largest universities in this area.. Sam Houston state university... Which is exactly why I lived in Huntsville... I would get college kids coming in to the Hitching Post to study because it was 24 hours... Also after bars closed they would come in after a night of partying. They think WCJD was killed Halloween night so I'm sure college kids were out partying until late night hours... It was also a Saturday night. Maybe we are looking for a college kid. Like I said, I'm just trying to think of all possibilities.
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I never could see a woman being a suspect either until I started reading your posts. Now I have been considering the way she was assaulted, the pantyhose, and where she was last seen. Do you think there's any chance some of these working girls you've been talking about could have committed this crime?

I agree with a statement you made in an earlier post about it being doubtful that authorities really showed a picture to every inmate at Ellis but I was wondering that even if a inmate did know and recognize her would they admitt it or deny it. Convicts are well known for keeping their mouths shut. You never know this person could have had some kind of relationship with WCJD and was worried about statutory or something or otherwise thought it would be best to just stay out of it.
 
T rex said:
I never could see a woman being a suspect either until I started reading your posts. Now I have been considering the way she was assaulted, the pantyhose, and where she was last seen. Do you think there's any chance some of these working girls you've been talking about could have committed this crime?

I agree with a statement you made in an earlier post about it being doubtful that authorities really showed a picture to every inmate at Ellis but I was wondering that even if a inmate did know and recognize her would they admitt it or deny it. Convicts are well known for keeping their mouths shut. You never know this person could have had some kind of relationship with WCJD and was worried about statutory or something or otherwise thought it would be best to just stay out of it.
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Could the bite mark on her shoulder determine the sex of the biter. I believe it was the shoulder and didn't seem sexual like men who bite. If she was fighting back it wouldn't have to be sexual, but it could have been just not in a disfiguring the breasts, vagina or butt cheeks. I know bitemarks aren't always unique and with skin moving a match is rarely perfect, but can it narrow down the size of the mouth?
 
Trusty system (prison) - Wikipedia

"Texas continued their use of trusty systems (known as "building tenders") until the 1980s, when Federal Judge William Wayne Justice, in Ruiz v Estelle, 503 F. Supp. 1265 (S.D. Tex. 1980), compelled the replacement of the trusty system with the strictly-regulated Support Service Inmate (SSI) system."
 
cherrymeg said:
Uber is like paying to hitchhike. lol. That's interesting he didn't hear about her. You think they could have made an announcement or had a few fliers handed out in other units. Inmates can be transferred also if she was a runaway she might not have been in contact with whoever she was looking for. Did he mention if there were certain visitation times? Was Ellis different? Was it for more violent offenders? Was your dad with lifers or did they keep people separate depending on their sentences?
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My dad was at the holiday unit... So I'm not sure. I don't know if he would know how they did things. The holiday unit is called holiday unit because it is a diagnostic unit... Inmates don't stay there long, just long enough to be assigned to a unit or because they have very short sentences... Hence the name HOLIDAY unit. I don't think a working woman would've killed this girl. I don't think WCJD was trying to take their business or stand in their spot... I agree the inmate may have just kept his mouth shut.... Out of fear or whatever. I don't think my dad knows much about the Ellis unit particularly just how the prison system was ran. Best bet would be to find a lifer still incarcerated today that's been in a very long time and ask them. not sure I'm willing to go that far.
 
cherrymeg said:
Could the bite mark on her shoulder determine the sex of the biter. I believe it was the shoulder and didn't seem sexual like men who bite. If she was fighting back it wouldn't have to be sexual, but it could have been just not in a disfiguring the breasts, vagina or butt cheeks. I know bitemarks aren't always unique and with skin moving a match is rarely perfect, but can it narrow down the size of the mouth?
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I think the bite was sexual. I'm looking into a guy right now named Autry. I'll let y'all know what I find.
 
Sweetluv said:
Don't think this was sexually motivated.......no "part" used.....blunt object instead.
Bite seems like anger and frustration.
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How do they know no part was used? No semen doesn't mean it wasn't a rape, if something was shoved up there that caused damage how do they know. This is what bothers me. She could've had to perform oral. Maybe he couldn't keep it up and got frustrated.
 
I have heard of bite marks in other cases, yes.
Wish I had more knowledge on why someone, esp in 1980 when DNA was in its infancy, would use only an object if crime was for sexual gratification....any thoughts?
 
Sweetluv said:
I have heard of bite marks in other cases, yes.
Wish I had more knowledge on why someone, esp in 1980 when DNA was in its infancy, would use only an object if crime was for sexual gratification....any thoughts?
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As I've started maybe he "couldn't" perform. Maybe he got off by hirtibg, same as someone having an orgasm while choking.
 
Izzy77523 said:
My dad was at the holiday unit... So I'm not sure. I don't know if he would know how they did things. The holiday unit is called holiday unit because it is a diagnostic unit... Inmates don't stay there long, just long enough to be assigned to a unit or because they have very short sentences... Hence the name HOLIDAY unit. I don't think a working woman would've killed this girl. I don't think WCJD was trying to take their business or stand in their spot... I agree the inmate may have just kept his mouth shut.... Out of fear or whatever. I don't think my dad knows much about the Ellis unit particularly just how the prison system was ran. Best bet would be to find a lifer still incarcerated today that's been in a very long time and ask them. not sure I'm willing to go that far.
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The state prisons in PA have one prison everyone usually goes through. My son's dad ended up in SCI Retreat. He ran into his step-dad my son called him pop-pop Tommy in Graterford I think. My ex went neo nazi and had a Klansman tattooed on his back. It looked like the outline of a poop emoji. His stepdad was like wear a shirt. I don't know how he wasn't murdered. He spent 4 years in jail someone had to listen to his horrible guitar playing when the cell doors were shut. I got a letter about him wanting to be sovereign citizen possibly while he was in prison. He went through a phase that involved calling me and demanding that I switch him to a prison with a forestry program (I don't work for the prison - it was weird). I have a friend in that prison and that is for longer term inmates and it's reward. I did call the counselor to ask if she could evaluate him. lol

I'd write to a lifer. My cousin used to have his inmate friends write me when I was 17 from some place in Louisiana. Is there a way to find an inmate that would have been there in 80? And someone who would respond to a letter.
 
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