Identified! TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 Sherry Ann Jarvis

[Alleykins]

I was expected to be self-sufficient and independent at a young age. Started using the city bus and riding all over town by myself at age 8. My mother, who raised five of us by herself while working a full time job, had expectations of us, like being where we were supposed to be and having to have our homework and chores done before we could do anything after school. She made it clear it was her way or the highway. My older sister took her up on that offer and moved out when she turned 16. I don't blame her, my mother had 3 built in housekeeper/babysitters and after a while, the effort wasn't worth having a roof over our heads, because that's about all my mother provided at times. She expected a lot from us without taking care of our basic needs. I left home at 17. Shortly after, my mum got this incredible job making beaucoup bucks, and bought a dishwasher. Go figure.

 

[cvaldez1975]

sounds like my step kids mom. 16 year old step son wont have a thing to do w her.

I was expected to be self-sufficient and independent at a young age. Started using the city bus and riding all over town by myself at age 8. My mother, who raised five of us by herself while working a full time job, had expectations of us, like being where we were supposed to be and having to have our homework and chores done before we could do anything after school. She made it clear it was her way or the highway. My older sister took her up on that offer and moved out when she turned 16. I don't blame her, my mother had 3 built in housekeeper/babysitters and after a while, the effort wasn't worth having a roof over our heads, because that's about all my mother provided at times. She expected a lot from us without taking care of our basic needs. I left home at 17. Shortly after, my mum got this incredible job making beaucoup bucks, and bought a dishwasher. Go figure.

 

[Alleykins]

sounds like my step kids mom. 16 year old step son wont have a thing to do w her.

OT:
My mum was an awesome baby mama, but as soon as our feet hit the floor, another one came along and we were expected to act like little adults. That's a tall order for a one year old/toddler/preschooler. She had us so conditioned & disciplined, she could take us anywhere and we would behave and not make a peep. I lost track of all the waitresses that complimented my mother for having such well behaved children. They'd at least reward us with a treat of some kind, where my mother didn't. We were kept in line with guilt and shame, and spankings.

However, after I left home, and my mother got that excellent paying job with benefits, she became a totally different person. At that point, she only had 3 kids left at home with one close to graduating. Besides no longer having financial worries, she was exposed to a better class of people - ones who attended their kids' sports and praised them for having good grades. I think she saw the error of her ways then. She hardly missed my younger sister's basketball games after that. It was a complete 180 to the point my baby sister hardly remembers us being on food-stamps and medicaid, and gets angry whenever we bring up how depraved and neglected we were, because she wasn't.
You would think we were raised by two different women.

 

[Bit of hope]

OT:
My mum was an awesome baby mama, but as soon as our feet hit the floor, another one came along and we were expected to act like little adults. That's a tall order for a one year old/toddler/preschooler. She had us so conditioned & disciplined, she could take us anywhere and we would behave and not make a peep. I lost track of all the waitresses that complimented my mother for having such well behaved children. They'd at least reward us with a treat of some kind, where my mother didn't. We were kept in line with guilt and shame, and spankings.

However, after I left home, and my mother got that excellent paying job with benefits, she became a totally different person. At that point, she only had 3 kids left at home with one close to graduating. Besides no longer having financial worries, she was exposed to a better class of people

That is lot to take in.....

 

[cvaldez1975]

yep. only she will never see the error of her ways because she is not doing anything wrong and its everyone else who is... she too is very organized and that works well with babies but she is totally inflexible and if things aren't her way its adult tantrum time. that didn't work well w ss16. she could not take normal teen behavior from him. her oldest is terrified of her because he doesn't have a father. so no one but her. poor kid.

anyways enough off topic discussion

OT:
My mum was an awesome baby mama, but as soon as our feet hit the floor, another one came along and we were expected to act like little adults. That's a tall order for a one year old/toddler/preschooler. She had us so conditioned & disciplined, she could take us anywhere and we would behave and not make a peep. I lost track of all the waitresses that complimented my mother for having such well behaved children. They'd at least reward us with a treat of some kind, where my mother didn't. We were kept in line with guilt and shame, and spankings.

However, after I left home, and my mother got that excellent paying job with benefits, she became a totally different person. At that point, she only had 3 kids left at home with one close to graduating. Besides no longer having financial worries, she was exposed to a better class of people

 

[carbuff]

I'm sure she THOUGHT she was, as most kids her age all THINK they are , and maybe she had some ,, but an important thing we all forget when searching for un-ids from years ago.. Tomes were sooo different ..communication was so much more limited then what it is now.. the worlds horrors weren't discussed or even known world wide ( as it is now thanks to www) and when kids were hard to handle rebellious they weren't coddled .. a lot of time they were given up on as not to put a "blot" on the family name ..


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Or just an agreement that everybody would be happier if they went separate ways, as my brother did for a while. He had to get out and wander. Came home eventually and has stayed around ever since. He nearly got killed under a bridge in Spokane and if he had, we probably wouldn't have ever found out.

It was pretty easy to get a job at 16, too. Waiting tables, washing dishes, making beds at a cheap motel...not much, but enough to keep you going. She could have been out on her own.

 

[Roselvr]

I was expected to be self-sufficient and independent at a young age. Started using the city bus and riding all over town by myself at age 8. My mother, who raised five of us by herself while working a full time job, had expectations of us, like being where we were supposed to be and having to have our homework and chores done before we could do anything after school. She made it clear it was her way or the highway. My older sister took her up on that offer and moved out when she turned 16. I don't blame her, my mother had 3 built in housekeeper/babysitters and after a while, the effort wasn't worth having a roof over our heads, because that's about all my mother provided at times. She expected a lot from us without taking care of our basic needs. I left home at 17. Shortly after, my mum got this incredible job making beaucoup bucks, and bought a dishwasher. Go figure.

Times were way different because back when my parents were kids they helped on a farm or got jobs to help support the family. They handed their pay check over until they were adults, but kids worked younger up until my generation (born in 65) we now needed working papers to get a job at 15. Only a few places hired kids younger on the books. I had a few under the table jobs which are hard to find now.

The 70's and 80's were different times, we could ride a city bus as kids. A bunch of us took the bus to Elizabeth to shop Broad Street.

Funny how dishwashers are now standard in homes. I don't ever have enough dishes to use ours.

 

[paul1980]

drifting off-topic a little but i guess we don't have much to say on WCJD.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

drifting off-topic a little but i guess we don't have much to say on WCJD.

I wouldn't say it's off topic. It's pretty useful context for those who are too young to remember 1979 or who are, like me, not Americans.

 

[CADwrest]

Hello, everyone! I have been following this case for a little while now, though nowhere near as long as everyone on this thread. Like many of you, it speaks to me for some reason. I’ve read through the entire thread over the last few days, and have searched many of the other online sources as well, to get as much information as possible about this very sad story.


Researching this case, it strikes me that there seems to be very little that the general public knows for absolute certainty, and I wanted to see if there were a few basic pieces of information that could be established. I think brainstorming and speculation are very helpful, but knowing which facts are absolutely solid is very helpful too.


The first issue that I’m curious about are the two sightings on October 31, 1980, and how certain we are that they actually were Walker County Jane Doe. The first post on this thread says "It has not been verified that the girl was the unidentified victim", referring to the sightings at the South End Gulf Station and the Hitchin Post. However, I have seen in other sources (this one, for instance: http://abc7chicago.com/news/girl-found-dead-35-years-ago-remains-unidentified/1067577/), that the witnesses later identified the body as being the girl that they spoke with. If that’s the case, then I think we can take those sightings as confirmed; even with the swelling and bruising, the witness accounts can probably be considered reliable, since they had interacted with her very recently.


Second, and this has been asked a few times on here, but I haven’t seen a clear answer given, is the exact location of the South End Gulf station. I’ve gathered that it was subsequently torn down, but it would be helpful to know exactly where that station actually was in Huntsville. From some of the previous posts, I’ve gotten the impression that it was located on the south side of Huntsville near where the Sonic drive-thru is now. Is that correct?


The last question I have, I’ve seen mentioned several times on the thread already, but just want to be sure no one knows the answer. Do we know what time she was at Hitchin Post? I’ve seen it referred to as "evening", which does seem to confirm that it was after the 6:30pm sighting at the Gulf station, but that’s as specific as I’ve seen anywhere. If that information has never been released by LE, that strikes me as significant. I can think of several reasons why they may not have done so, but I wanted to make sure the information wasn’t out there somewhere before I assumed that.


So, can anyone shed any light on the above? I know all of the above was probably well known to LE by noon of November 1, 1980, but I wanted to see if I can get a better idea of what we truly know for sure about this case.


Thanks in advance, an thanks to everyone still keeping her story going after all these years.

 

[CarlK90245]

Researching this case, it strikes me that there seems to be very little that the general public knows for absolute certainty, and I wanted to see if there were a few basic pieces of information that could be established. I think brainstorming and speculation are very helpful, but knowing which facts are absolutely solid is very helpful too.


The first issue that I’m curious about are the two sightings on October 31, 1980, and how certain we are that they actually were Walker County Jane Doe. The first post on this thread says "It has not been verified that the girl was the unidentified victim", referring to the sightings at the South End Gulf Station and the Hitchin Post. However, I have seen in other sources (this one, for instance: (http://abc7chicago.com/news/girl-found-dead-35-years-ago-remains-unidentified/1067577/), that the witnesses later identified the body as being the girl that they spoke with. If that’s the case, then I think we can take those sightings as confirmed; even with the swelling and bruising, the witness accounts can probably be considered reliable, since they had interacted with her very recently.

Yes, I believe that at least one of the witnesses verified from a photo of her body, that she was the girl seen prior, and the waitress description of the sandals matched the sandals found next to the body. Also, the fact that both witnesses gave the accounts independent of each other, yet told the same story about a girl asking directions to the prison, makes their stories very credible.

 

[mia g]

Hello, everyone! I have been following this case for a little while now, though nowhere near as long as everyone on this thread. Like many of you, it speaks to me for some reason. I’ve read through the entire thread over the last few days, and have searched many of the other online sources as well, to get as much information as possible about this very sad story.


Researching this case, it strikes me that there seems to be very little that the general public knows for absolute certainty, and I wanted to see if there were a few basic pieces of information that could be established. I think brainstorming and speculation are very helpful, but knowing which facts are absolutely solid is very helpful too.


The first issue that I’m curious about are the two sightings on October 31, 1980, and how certain we are that they actually were Walker County Jane Doe. The first post on this thread says "It has not been verified that the girl was the unidentified victim", referring to the sightings at the South End Gulf Station and the Hitchin Post. However, I have seen in other sources (this one, for instance: http://abc7chicago.com/news/girl-found-dead-35-years-ago-remains-unidentified/1067577/), that the witnesses later identified the body as being the girl that they spoke with. If that’s the case, then I think we can take those sightings as confirmed; even with the swelling and bruising, the witness accounts can probably be considered reliable, since they had interacted with her very recently.


Second, and this has been asked a few times on here, but I haven’t seen a clear answer given, is the exact location of the South End Gulf station. I’ve gathered that it was subsequently torn down, but it would be helpful to know exactly where that station actually was in Huntsville. From some of the previous posts, I’ve gotten the impression that it was located on the south side of Huntsville near where the Sonic drive-thru is now. Is that correct?


The last question I have, I’ve seen mentioned several times on the thread already, but just want to be sure no one knows the answer. Do we know what time she was at Hitchin Post? I’ve seen it referred to as "evening", which does seem to confirm that it was after the 6:30pm sighting at the Gulf station, but that’s as specific as I’ve seen anywhere. If that information has never been released by LE, that strikes me as significant. I can think of several reasons why they may not have done so, but I wanted to make sure the information wasn’t out there somewhere before I assumed that.


So, can anyone shed any light on the above? I know all of the above was probably well known to LE by noon of November 1, 1980, but I wanted to see if I can get a better idea of what we truly know for sure about this case.


Thanks in advance, an thanks to everyone still keeping her story going after all these years.

The station was a few miles away from the sonic .. uhm I don't know the way to explain the direction but if you left sonic you'd turn right and go straight out .. and I can't tell you in miles (I did have the mileage from certain points but not from the Sonic) sorry I can't give a better description .. but I can tell from
Your question you e traveled the area ..

As for time she was at Hitchin Post .. if she was truly at Gulf station around 630 I'd estimate it have to be 9 or later for her to walk to the HP.. and I have a feeling ( unless she knew the area better then we all think) it may have been longer .. for one she apparently went opposite direction of her intended destination from GULF.. there's 3 routes I can think she may have gone to end up at HP .. next time I'm in town I plan to get the names of those main streets .. but even with those names .. there are so many roads that shoot off those .. and with the exception of one unless u knew the area you'd not know major roads were near by ( sorry again I don't have better description because dang I don't know road names.. we tell directions by landmarks .. )


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[CarlK90245]

It's been a year or two since my last revision, and I got to tinkering with it again.

I decided that my prior version had her looking too dolled up, and her hair too poofy. So I gave it another shot. I had based my prior version on the description indicating hair styled in "wing fashion". This time, I have her looking slightly younger and less make-up, with her hair more consistent with what I can see in the side-view PM photo.

 

[paul1980]

Did any of the witnesses report WCJD wearing make-up?

 

[CADwrest]

Thanks for your replies.

Based on the photo identification, I'm satisfied that the witnesses did indeed meet the victim, and it's not a coincidence with two different, similar looking girls. I just wanted to ask that question because I have seen doubt expressed on that.

Mia- no, never been to Huntsville, closest I've been to the area is Dallas. I just make judicious use of google maps! Ok, so the Gulf station is even FURTHER south than the Sonic. That's interesting...

It's late so I'm going to leave it for now. But this is good info, and why I wanted to try and nail down what we could. Because I'm wondering if the distance involved, the fact that she wasn't trying to reach the Hitchin Post, and the fact that it was way out of the direction she needed to go, might imply something interesting. I just really wish we had a time for her being there.

 

[paul1980]

This is unrelated but why does the law mandate that criminals be sentenced according to the laws at the time? we didn't take child sex crimes as seriously in the seventies but several criminals who were only brought to justice now have to be sentenced by the weak standards of the past?

 

[Alleykins]

This is unrelated but why does the law mandate that criminals be sentenced according to the laws at the time? we didn't take child sex crimes as seriously in the seventies but several criminals who were only brought to justice now have to be sentenced by the weak standards of the past?

Not an expert, but I believe it has to do with expos facto law.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ex-post-facto-law

 

[CADwrest]

This is unrelated but why does the law mandate that criminals be sentenced according to the laws at the time? we didn't take child sex crimes as seriously in the seventies but several criminals who were only brought to justice now have to be sentenced by the weak standards of the past?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

It gets into ex post facto concerns, apparently. If I'm reading this right, as long as the act was a crime at the time it was commited, you can use modern enforcement guidelines to prosecute it, but only to the extent the enhancements aren't considered a "punishment".
I'm not an attorney, though, so take with a grain of salt.

 

[mia g]

Tonight I'm gonna attempt to draw a map .. of the area and the only routes I can figure .. then those that are good with google map will have a better idea of the lay out and the area .. will that help??


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[CADwrest]

That'd be great! I've looked around online quite a bit and can't figure out where it was!