TX TX - Jason Landry, 21, enroute from TSU to home, car found crashed at Luling, 14 Dec 2020 #6

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How does a "scent" suddenly stop. I mean it was tracked until it stopped, there's barbed wire fences on both sides so LE/SAR would've checked behind the fences and on the grassy or twigged areas (it doesn't really look grassy they look more like rough twigs.) So that's what I keep coming back to. That makes it perplexing. The VFF didn't notice anything if Jason was there he should've seen something. IMO by the time the VFF got to the general area especially where Jason's scent trail stopped Jason was gone from there. But then the question remains, where?
My hypothesis on this exact question many threads ago was a 2nd car picked him up either voluntarily, or involuntarily. I too found it odd that his scent just stopped, but I'm not an expert by any means, on dog tracking scents. That's all I've got. I could never come up with any other reason other than the dog just lost his scent.
 
My hypothesis on this exact question many threads ago was a 2nd car picked him up either voluntarily, or involuntarily. I too found it odd that his scent just stopped, but I'm not an expert by any means, on dog tracking scents. That's all I've got. I could never come up with any other reason other than the dog just lost his scent.
I know, perplexing. IDK, but I think there has to be a reason though. Especially if since it was tracked from the crash scene to where it stopped. But that's what I hyopothesize as well either voluntarily or involuntarily. That's perhaps why Jason's family is concerned about what really happened that night to Jason. And they have every right to be worried about his well being so maybe the AG is looking into that. The fact that there has been no banking activity and they haven't heard from him if it was voluntary makes them suspicious of something happening to him after a voluntary act even, but the fact is if it was voluntary then something happened to him that could also allude to criminal activity. Too many unresolved issues for not further action on the authorities part. MOO.
 
How does a "scent" suddenly stop. I mean it was tracked until it stopped, there's barbed wire fences on both sides so LE/SAR would've checked behind the fences and on the grassy or twigged areas (it doesn't really look grassy they look more like rough twigs.) So that's what I keep coming back to. That makes it perplexing. The VFF didn't notice anything if Jason was there he should've seen something. IMO by the time the VFF got to the general area especially where Jason's scent trail stopped Jason was gone from there. But then the question remains, where?
Possibly it stops because it was never there?
This article from the very beginning would make it seemed like possibly inexperienced handlers or dogs were involved, imho.

Missing Texas State student Jason Landry’s abandoned car did not cause immediate concern; police work to overcome early investigative delays
But investigators are not certain the canine was picking up on Landry’s scent, because a deputy and a trooper had checked the same house just after the wreck was discovered.
 
Possibly it stops because it was never there?
This article from the very beginning would make it seemed like possibly inexperienced handlers or dogs were involved, imho.

Missing Texas State student Jason Landry’s abandoned car did not cause immediate concern; police work to overcome early investigative delays
But investigators are not certain the canine was picking up on Landry’s scent, because a deputy and a trooper had checked the same house just after the wreck was discovered.
I do realize that the CCSO wasn't sure if it was Jason's scent they were following between the house and the pond. However, I am referring to the scent a quarter mile from the crash scene. I am assuming that is different from between the house and pond. Its pretty amazing but scent even after rain lasts weeks if not months afterwards from what I've read so I am under the assumption that this scent trail was followed during the searches where LE acknowledged Jason may be an endangered person. So I also assume that the canine handlers used Jasons's acutal scent. I don't see this anywhere but I get the impression that this is what unfolded. Yes, so for me IMO the scent if it was tracked with Jason's actual scent than that is a concern. The initial search may have had issues but at least a few days later it was conducted with more detail to a missing individual. MOO.
 
Possibly it stops because it was never there?
This article from the very beginning would make it seemed like possibly inexperienced handlers or dogs were involved, imho.

Missing Texas State student Jason Landry’s abandoned car did not cause immediate concern; police work to overcome early investigative delays
But investigators are not certain the canine was picking up on Landry’s scent, because a deputy and a trooper had checked the same house just after the wreck was discovered.

I don’t believe we know what type of tracking dog(s) were used initially, in the very beginning hours of the search. I remember this article and thinking the dog may have tracked the deputy and trooper to that house. That they both searched on foot before dog(s) were onsite. That JL was possibly never at that specific location.These dogs are looking for any human scent, the most recent in the area, not a specific person. IMO

IMO only - scent travels and settles, moves again. The weather, humidity, trees, hills, streams, etc. all impact scent and can change it. Then some dogs are not trained enough on ground changes such as grass to gravel, dirt path to pavement, etc. I’ve seen some dogs get tripped up on rounding corners on buildings (handler doesn’t train enough in this area). A car passing over actual foot steps can carry the scent “broken scent trail”. A scent picture can be complicated. It’s really hard to say what happened with JL’s scent in the area in regards to the various dog teams used (presumably). IMO
 
How does a "scent" suddenly stop. I mean it was tracked until it stopped, there's barbed wire fences on both sides so LE/SAR would've checked behind the fences and on the grassy or twigged areas (it doesn't really look grassy they look more like rough twigs.) So that's what I keep coming back to. That makes it perplexing. The VFF didn't notice anything if Jason was there he should've seen something. IMO by the time the VFF got to the general area especially where Jason's scent trail stopped Jason was gone from there. But then the question remains, where?

With my very limited knowledge of tracking scent, (assuming the dog handler was reading the dog correctly and the dog was properly trained) when a scent trail stops, it means the person entered or was put into an enclosed vehicle with windows closed. MOO
 
With my very limited knowledge of tracking scent, (assuming the dog handler was reading the dog correctly and the dog was properly trained) when a scent trail stops, it means the person entered or was put into an enclosed vehicle with windows closed. MOO
That's what they're trained to do, ideally, but I think we'll all agree here it doesn't seem to work out that way in the field. By the time dogs are brought in, the scent is many hours old, has been tracked over by many searchers and carried all over the place on their shoes, and the "scent article" used to let the dogs know what to smell for is often flawed. At the end of an investigation when remains (or a live person) are found, it seems there's often no correlation between what actually happened, and what the dogs alerted.
 
How does a "scent" suddenly stop. I mean it was tracked until it stopped, there's barbed wire fences on both sides so LE/SAR would've checked behind the fences and on the grassy or twigged areas (it doesn't really look grassy they look more like rough twigs.) So that's what I keep coming back to. That makes it perplexing. The VFF didn't notice anything if Jason was there he should've seen something. IMO by the time the VFF got to the general area especially where Jason's scent trail stopped Jason was gone from there. But then the question remains, where?
Due to the strong chemical smells from the oil wells, it is apparently very difficult for dogs to track in that area. According to Jason's dad, they go nose-blind very quickly. So I'm not sure that much faith should be put into that scent trail. If it was following Jason's scent, it's possible that the dog lost the scent trail because it became nose-blind at that time, not because the trail ended.
 
That's what they're trained to do, ideally, but I think we'll all agree here it doesn't seem to work out that way in the field. By the time dogs are brought in, the scent is many hours old, has been tracked over by many searchers and carried all over the place on their shoes, and the "scent article" used to let the dogs know what to smell for is often flawed. At the end of an investigation when remains (or a live person) are found, it seems there's often no correlation between what actually happened, and what the dogs alerted.
I also think there were many unintended obstacles that impeded the search dogs performance given that officials first believed that JL likely abandoned his car voluntarily. Then the question of getting recent clothes with JL's scent. His clothes were collected not by LE but by his dad the following morning after being in the cold and toxic smelling fumes of the area. IIRC, it seemed to me the best dog hits were near the water (i.e., hits by more than one dog) and not the roadway. The full details were never released.
 
That's what they're trained to do, ideally, but I think we'll all agree here it doesn't seem to work out that way in the field. By the time dogs are brought in, the scent is many hours old, has been tracked over by many searchers and carried all over the place on their shoes, and the "scent article" used to let the dogs know what to smell for is often flawed. At the end of an investigation when remains (or a live person) are found, it seems there's often no correlation between what actually happened, and what the dogs alerted.
Not from what I've learned. I have watched a documentary where years ago when a person went missing in a bustling city in the downtown area LE was able to trace that missing person's scent back to where the person originally started from which was their house in that city. It was years ago that I saw this but I wish I could remember it now but I don't unfortunately. IIRC this person's scent was traced back to the house a while after it was either days or weeks (I believe it was weeks.) I thought that was so very impressive. I really don't see why this can't be applied to Jason's case in terms of tracking or tracing. Jason was days the documentary stated weeks. I can understand the chemical smells, however, since I'm not an expert on this topic other than finding it fascinating I do see the point. But at the same time in the city buses, trucks running on diesel and other fuels are operating. In the documentary they showed the search being done in the day. I only hope that Jason's father is 100% certain. Or is it his opinion. IDK. But all MOO.
 
Dogs are "iffy" and we can't read too much into them. I think it's great if they can find someone. But if they can't, it may not mean much also.
In Ebby Steppach's case, dogs ignored a strong decomp smell that one of Ebby's friends smelled. She disappeared Oct 25, 2015 her vehicle was found two days later. She was found in May 2018, in the same park as her abandoned vehicle and at the exact spot that the friend smelled strong decomp in 2015.


_______________________________________________________________________
On October 25, 2015, she placed an erratic phone call to her older brother, Trevor; this was the last known contact anyone had with her.

On October 27, her abandoned car was discovered in Chalamont Park in west Little Rock. Searches of the woods in the park were undertaken, but no sign of Steppach was found. She remained a missing person for nearly three years before her body was discovered in a drainage pipe in Chalamont Park in May 2018, in the immediate vicinity of where her car had been found. She was dead since the time her car was found. Her death has been classified as a homicide.[1]

Murder of Ebby Steppach - Wikipedia


Friends of Arkansas teen whose remains have been found in a drain pipe three years after she went missing say they smelt decomposition days after the 18-year-old disappeared but the cops did nothing
  • Ebby Steppach's remains were found in a drain pipe at a park in Little Rock, Arkansas, on Tuesday
  • The 18-year-old had gone missing in October 24, 2015
  • Days after her disappearance friends say they reported the smell of decomposition coming from the drain pipe, but police ignored their claims
  • Ebby's parents issued a statement saying that her death is being investigated as a homicide
  • After finding Ebby's car investigators canvased the park without any success.
Margie says officers 'dismissed' her and said: 'This park was gone through with dogs and they would have picked up on that. It must be an animal or something.'

Friends smelt decomposition in drain where teen's remains were found but cops did nothing about it | Daily Mail Online
 
Not from what I've learned. I have watched a documentary where years ago when a person went missing in a bustling city in the downtown area LE was able to trace that missing person's scent back to where the person originally started from which was their house in that city. It was years ago that I saw this but I wish I could remember it now but I don't unfortunately. IIRC this person's scent was traced back to the house a while after it was either days or weeks (I believe it was weeks.) I thought that was so very impressive. I really don't see why this can't be applied to Jason's case in terms of tracking or tracing. Jason was days the documentary stated weeks. I can understand the chemical smells, however, since I'm not an expert on this topic other than finding it fascinating I do see the point. But at the same time in the city buses, trucks running on diesel and other fuels are operating. In the documentary they showed the search being done in the day. I only hope that Jason's father is 100% certain. Or is it his opinion. IDK. But all MOO.

Then, there's this case. Dogs are often hit or miss. It's great if they find something, but if they don't, it doesn't mean the same as if they find something.....
Murder of Ebby Steppach - Wikipedia
Friends smelt decomposition in drain where teen's remains were found but cops did nothing about it | Daily Mail Online
 
Then, there's this case. Dogs are often hit or miss. It's great if they find something, but if they don't, it doesn't mean the same as if they find something.....
Murder of Ebby Steppach - Wikipedia
Friends smelt decomposition in drain where teen's remains were found but cops did nothing about it | Daily Mail Online
Sad. I'm assuming a couple of things here. But first of all I wouldn't discount a properly trained dog nor LE. Dogs sense of smell is obviously much more acute than humans. Secondly, there could be a discrepency in the time the dogs were there and when the friend and her mother were there. Who knows maybe the body was put there shortly after LE searched the area, but before the friend and her mother were at the scene. I am speculating here but either LE didn't observe anything unusual there or the scene may not have been secured for that reason. MOO.
 
With Jason's father mentioning the chemical smells in reference to the dog searches I wonder if it was shortly after the first searches by LE maybe he's changed his mind now.
 
Then, there's this case. Dogs are often hit or miss. It's great if they find something, but if they don't, it doesn't mean the same as if they find something.....
Murder of Ebby Steppach - Wikipedia
Friends smelt decomposition in drain where teen's remains were found but cops did nothing about it | Daily Mail Online
Sorry in post #596 I should've been more specific I meant that particular scene not meaning the area where her car was found because there may be evidence in the car or area around it. Sometimes if its not stated specifically it detracts from what the personson is actually trying to convey. My bad.
 
Dogs are "iffy" and we can't read too much into them. I think it's great if they can find someone. But if they can't, it may not mean much also.
In Ebby Steppach's case, dogs ignored a strong decomp smell that one of Ebby's friends smelled.
Margie says officers 'dismissed' her and said: 'This park was gone through with dogs and they would have picked up on that. It must be an animal or something.'

Friends smelt decomposition in drain where teen's remains were found but cops did nothing about it | Daily Mail Online
_____
Just a thought... but not all dogs are specifically trained as forensic evidence dogs that are trained in all specialties of live search and rescue, decomposition, and forensic evidence.

For reference see this article about the differences in training.
What is the difference between a search dog, cadaver dog, decomp dog and a forensic evidence dog?
FAQ | 911BC K9 Search & Recovery

In Jason's case, has it been specifically stated which type of training/search dog(s) were utilized in the search for Jason? I'd assume that different types of training were utilized, but I don't remember if specifics were ever mentioned.

All MOO
 
_____
Just a thought... but not all dogs are specifically trained as forensic evidence dogs that are trained in all specialties of live search and rescue, decomposition, and forensic evidence.

For reference see this article about the differences in training.
What is the difference between a search dog, cadaver dog, decomp dog and a forensic evidence dog?
FAQ | 911BC K9 Search & Recovery

In Jason's case, has it been specifically stated which type of training/search dog(s) were utilized in the search for Jason? I'd assume that different types of training were utilized, but I don't remember if specifics were ever mentioned.

All MOO

No, it has not been stated in Jason's case. They just got dogs. Training is everything. I assume they were some kind of "bloodhounds" that the sheriff's office or DPS uses.

In this case of Effy, they used cadavar dogs, but the cadavar dog did not pick up the smell. Effy was in the drain when the cadavar dog failed to hit. LE said they did not hit on the drain because it probably was not human decomp.
 
It is, but the digital trail was lost well before that - when he was still on the main road, a couple of blocks before he would have turned right.

It still baffles me a bit, but i guess I have to accept that the pings just completely went silent the moment that Jason opened the Snapchat app.



Some users here have said that the area has a lot of oil and gas wells and has a foul stench. That could easily explain why the trail got lost.



KL doesn't think Jason was using while driving. He cites not seeing any physical evidence in the car, like ash, half-smoked joints, or roach clips.
I don't think Jason had used while driving either. The FaceTime it shows him rolling one joint. And not only that when LE looked in his backpack "they said uh oh". Well it was a tiny bottle. And the weed was in it. I agree with John Lorden when LE said they had an update when in fact they only mentioned his drug use and that it was his own fault that led to him missing, the smoking pot was already known. Jason's father was upfront about that from the beginning. Like John said why bring attention to his marijuana use. I agree that it could cause the public to not take an interest in Jason's case.
 
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