TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - # 3

[TxLady2]

I don't think it's hard and fast rule. At least that has not been my experience with nieces, nephews, and my own kids.

I agree, there are no rules when it comes to children, except that the dad's statement about knowing his zone... no 18 month old is going to adhere to rules without constant reminders. If they see or hear something or get the urge to explore, that's what they do.

 

[TxLady2]

I can't think of ANY legitimate reason that this family would lie to LE about what happened if they KNEW what happened was an accident. Even if they were afraid of CPS, the fact is that accidents DO happen and CPS would take that into consideration.I do find YOUR scenario, YellowSubmarine, to be MOST plausable (if his parents/family is lying).
There was an older boy in the house....a 6 year old, right?? I would think it would be difficult for the 6 year old to lie under questioning from LE. I would think the older child might be the BEST witness....especially if he saw other things going on in the house that might have made the adults less 'aware' of what was going on.
Regardless, I just feel like "we let him play in the yard for 2 minutes and turned around to find him gone'' is just a far better 'excuse' than he disappeared within the house and couldn't have opened the door by himself. That would be making themselves suspects...and everyone in the house suspect. I just think people who are trying to avoid being blamed would think of a story that puts him far away from them....not right in front of their noses. I also have SERIOUS problems with the notion that this little boy wandered that far from the home at night. I just don't see that happening either. MOO.

ITA. That many people are not going to stick to a "story" to cover up some kind of accident because of the fear of reporting it. CPS realizes that accidents do happen, they are not going to take other children out of the home just because one child was injured in an accident.

I think it's very likely that Joshua wandered out that door, and possibly got a few blocks away, and someone just happened to be driving around and grabbed him. Or that he went into a pond or the river, lost his footing and drowned. I can't tell you how many little kids have drowned in ponds or rivers in my area over the last few years, and some of them were not found immediately.

I just don't want to think that these parents did anything to that little boy, either deliberately or accidentally.

 

[TxLady2]

Bingo. There is a problem in that part of the timeline I believe.
First, we had the mom saying that at 7:40 she realised the baby was missing. But that makes no sense since the dad said he saw him @ 8 pm. How would it take her 20 minutes to look in the livingroom which is 10 seconds away?

I think the real problem took place closer to 7:40, an hour before the call to 911.

One of them is not sure about the exact times... that's typical. The dad didn't say he saw Joshua at exactly 8:00... he said 'around' 8:00. He may be just guessing and obviously didn't make it a point to look at the clock when Joshua was pulling on his beanie... and there would have been no need to note the time. IDK, but I think LE is more suspicious when people give exact times about certain things because it is not human nature to do that.

 

[belimom]

I am just confused by the three types of search dogs that could not pick up a trail from the home. As many have said, they should have picked up something of a trail, even from the previous day or last time he went out. I am a big believer in search dogs and think they are amazing. I know they can be used or trained incorrectly, but really, how hard should it be for a dog to pick up a scent outside of the home, if it exists?
Just unbelievable frustrating and sad and while I think LE has some suspicions, I don't think they have any real idea what happened here, unless everything is being kept quiet.

bbm

Clu, I think the dogs did pick up a scent but not a scent outside of the yard. The dad alluded to that and also Penshorn said the dogs had some spots of 'interest' but nothing that could help with locating Joshua.

The quotes are in this post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #3

 

[LunaticFringe]

Another thing to add how could Joshua pull on Dad's hat if he is sitting in a chair and only 2 ft tall? He said Joshua was behind his chair pulling on his cap

If he was in a recliner and all layed back I think Joshua would be able to reach.

 

[Daisyjane]

bbm

Clu, I think the dogs did pick up a scent but not a scent outside of the yard. The dad alluded to that and also Penshorn said the dogs had some spots of 'interest' but nothing that could helped with locating Joshua.

I quotes are in this post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #3

I know zilch about search dogs, but I wonder this: What if someone tall carried Joshua away from the house. That would place Joshua 5 feet off the ground. Dogs are low to the ground; perhaps they missed a scent because it was so far above their noses?

 

[Tuffy]

I don't believe anyone KILLED this baby. I.think.he was a victim of a freak accident. By no fault of anyone. IMO there is no reason to take the new baby IF someone admits to an accident,being scared and telling where the baby's body is. If.the medical examiner's autospsy matches with the story of what happened. All should be forgiven ... but hey! Who am I? Other than a person that beleives Joshua's parents meant him NO harm.
MOO

IF they can prove that it was indeed an accident, I still don't think it's going to be an 'all will be forgiven' situation. You can't just hide a body, file a false police report, and lie to multiple LE agencies, and get away with it, right?

 

[Tuffy]

I know zilch about search dogs, but I wonder this: What if someone tall carried Joshua away from the house. That would place Joshua 5 feet off the ground. Dogs are low to the ground; perhaps they missed a scent because it was so far above their noses?

I have a pet scent hound, a beagle. I do know that they have short legs so they can put their noses to the ground, and keep walking, to stay on the trail. So perhaps height may make the difference.

 

[cluciano63]

Whatever happened, I hope LE has a clear idea by now and just isn't saying. When they say that this is not an abduction, do they mean by someone outside of the home, I wonder? If someone from the group of 7 took him, would that be considered an abduction or kidnapping-it seems to me it would/should be. I think they are mainly considering only wandered off (really far away) or killed and disposed of before calling for help. But with so many conflicting statements, who knows what they think, or know...

 

[LCoastMom]

MsF - thank you for staying on top of this case.

There are too many possibilities with too few clues at this point, I'm not able to stay on any one theory for long.

Joshua appears to be a much loved baby (many happy photos), he is just too adorable to believe anyone (in his family) could do something intentionally to harm him.

If an accident, they had precious little time to hide him well enough to still be missing 8 days later. With 6 to 8 witnesses, including grandparents and a 6 year old sibling, I don't believe their secret could have stayed a secret for this long.

If an abduction, LE has found no clues - if deceit, we have heard precious little and if he wandered off - why have they not found some sign of him out of the yard?

I'm wondering how close the home is to the water LE has been searching, how close to the river? Last month when 4 yr old Juliani Cardenas was driven into a canal in CA, with similar temperatures it took 2 agonizing weeks for his body to be found.

I hope something is revealed soon, this is just a heartbreaking case.

 

[sarx]

I know zilch about search dogs, but I wonder this: What if someone tall carried Joshua away from the house. That would place Joshua 5 feet off the ground. Dogs are low to the ground; perhaps they missed a scent because it was so far above their noses?

It is a very logical deduction. Scent falls and disperses (think of puffing a baby powder bottle outside) as time goes by. I do think there is truth though in training issues here, and again, these were prison dogs, not exactly used to training or searching for babies (not much need, KWIM?). The short answer is, walked, carried, dragged, stuffed in a stroller, there is still scent there. The long answer is if you don't train for all aspects your chances of success go down.

 

[bdawk20]

IF they can prove that it was indeed an accident, I still don't think it's going to be an 'all will be forgiven' situation. You can't just hide a body, file a false police report, and lie to multiple LE agencies, and get away with it, right?

Especially if the accident was caused by any kind of negligence....

jmo

 

[sweetdreams]

I think the main missing info, that would clear up many of our questions is....did every person in the home that night see little Joshua at some point? With all the people present in the home in and around the time of the 911 call, the only people we know stating they at some point saw the child was Mom and Dad. I find it hard to believe, with such interest in this case, that we have no direct quotes from anyone else. I know LE must keep certain details close to their vest, but where is the proper media reporting on this. That is a basic, much needed part to this story!

 

[LCoastMom]

K-9 dog teams continued searching areas around the home of missing 18-month old Joshua Davis Jr. yesterday, but they also searched areas far from his home, on the other side of town. For the 2nd time in the last week, investigators were back in the area of Hunter Road and Country Ridge Drive with dog search teams scouring more densely wooded areas, searching for signs of the missing boy. New Braunfels Police officials wouldn’t say specifically why they were in that area yesterday, but did say that they were following up on any and all tips they get from the public, and that yesterday’s search off Hunter Road was one of those places they were following up on.



http://kgnb.am/news/one-week-later-searchers-seeking-more-tips-missing-toddler

This report has been stuck in my craw, is LE saying they have so little to go on that they have been investigating every call they get; from strangers who have a passing thought to whack-a-doodles who call in goodness knows what - in hopes that something pans out or maybe someone's conscience is bothering them, so they make an anonymous call?

Where is Joshua?

 

[Tuffy]

One of them is not sure about the exact times... that's typical. The dad didn't say he saw Joshua at exactly 8:00... he said 'around' 8:00. He may be just guessing and obviously didn't make it a point to look at the clock when Joshua was pulling on his beanie... and there would have been no need to note the time. IDK, but I think LE is more suspicious when people give exact times about certain things because it is not human nature to do that.

In the interview I heard with mom, (on NG) I think, mom said she was only estimating the times. She said she thought all of it took place around 8ish, but she wasn't exactly looking at the clock. Makes sense to me.

I'm just not seeing any red flags from the family, right now. The thing that is puzzling is the lack of a trail. But then again, sarx says, that could be dog/handler training, right?

 

[Tuffy]

I think the main missing info, that would clear up many of our questions is....did every person in the home that night see little Joshua at some point? With all the people present in the home in and around the time of the 911 call, the only people we know stating they at some point saw the child was Mom and Dad. I find it hard to believe, with such interest in this case, that we have no direct quotes from anyone else. I know LE must keep certain details close to their vest, but where is the proper media reporting on this. That is a basic, much needed part to this story!

My thoughts, too, sweetdreams. Usually, we have a little more at this point. It would answer a lot of questions to hear what the others in the house that night saw, and to hear more of the timeline.

 

[cluciano63]

The sort of tip that might lead LE as far away as the Hunter Rd search could be something about a vehicle seen in the area, for example, that might have some merit to LE. I wonder if someone at the trailer that night lives in that area or if the family has friends/acquaintances nearby.

 

[Noway]

Thanks belimom. That makes me feel some better.
Then again that makes me think Joshua was carried out of his yard.........into a vehicle maybe.

He still would have left a scent being carried out, wouldn't he?

ETA
Sarx answered

It is a very logical deduction. Scent falls and disperses (think of puffing a baby powder bottle outside) as time goes by. I do think there is truth though in training issues here, and again, these were prison dogs, not exactly used to training or searching for babies (not much need, KWIM?). The short answer is, walked, carried, dragged, stuffed in a stroller, there is still scent there. The long answer is if you don't train for all aspects your chances of success go down.

Link

 

[Tuffy]

He still would have left a scent being carried out, wouldn't he?

sarx, says yes. I think there is just a problem with the dogs finding the trail, not that a trail doesn't exist.

 

[Noway]

I don't believe anyone KILLED this baby. I.think.he was a victim of a freak accident. By no fault of anyone. IMO there is no reason to take the new baby IF someone admits to an accident,being scared and telling where the baby's body is. If.the medical examiner's autospsy matches with the story of what happened. All should be forgiven ... but hey! Who am I? Other than a person that beleives Joshua's parents meant him NO harm.
MOO

Seriously?