TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

[JustHereForFortWorth3]

Please forgive me if my questions have been answered before or were addressed in the Gone Cold podcast. I’ve been following this case for long enough that some details have gone fuzzy, and I’m currently working from home with two young kids, so I had to turn the volume down on the podcast pretty often. I may have missed some things along the way.

Questions:
1. How did TT meet the Arnolds?
2. What were the circumstances of DA’s engagement to TT? IIRC, they both call(ed) it “not serious.”
3. How did DA’s engagement to TT end?
4. What were the circumstances of Rachel’s engagement to TT?
5. How were the Arnold’s finances? Especially with CA sick—was FA set to support the kids and pay the bills after he passed?

Thoughts:
Several of the things the GC podcast reported that PI’s had found out were major news to me. Namely:
1. Rachel had been the victim of a rape in a park some months before she married TT, had subsequently become pregnant and had an abortion.
2. DA had allegedly sent a love letter to TT in Nov 1974, which had been discovered by Rachel, and had resulted in arguments between Rachel and TT about his infidelity with her sister—who had recently moved in with them at the time of Rachel’s disappearance.
3. Mr. Wilson had witnessed Rachel being very friendly (I don’t remember the exact words, but it struck me as a euphemism) with the guy who might have been California Jacket man. Did he disclose that to her parents? Could word have gotten around?

I can’t fully write out my hypothesis at the moment (trying to get kids to bed and then go to bed myself!), but I’ll write it out fully soon. In the meantime, can anyone answer my questions?

 

[Wishyouknew]

Please forgive me if my questions have been answered before or were addressed in the Gone Cold podcast. I’ve been following this case for long enough that some details have gone fuzzy, and I’m currently working from home with two young kids, so I had to turn the volume down on the podcast pretty often. I may have missed some things along the way.

Questions:
1. How did TT meet the Arnolds?
2. What were the circumstances of DA’s engagement to TT? IIRC, they both call(ed) it “not serious.”
3. How did DA’s engagement to TT end?
4. What were the circumstances of Rachel’s engagement to TT?
5. How were the Arnold’s finances? Especially with CA sick—was FA set to support the kids and pay the bills after he passed?

Thoughts:
Several of the things the GC podcast reported that PI’s had found out were major news to me. Namely:
1. Rachel had been the victim of a rape in a park some months before she married TT, had subsequently become pregnant and had an abortion.
2. DA had allegedly sent a love letter to TT in Nov 1974, which had been discovered by Rachel, and had resulted in arguments between Rachel and TT about his infidelity with her sister—who had recently moved in with them at the time of Rachel’s disappearance.
3. Mr. Wilson had witnessed Rachel being very friendly (I don’t remember the exact words, but it struck me as a euphemism) with the guy who might have been California Jacket man. Did he disclose that to her parents? Could word have gotten around?

I can’t fully write out my hypothesis at the moment (trying to get kids to bed and then go to bed myself!), but I’ll write it out fully soon. In the meantime, can anyone answer my questions?

Great questions. Honestly the only one I can answer is #5. The Arnold’s finances were TERRIBLE!!!! Multiple tax suits from the IRS. Cotton was VERY ill and was on his second bout of cancer. Medical bills were piled up. In Fran’s notes there were notes of how she was getting money for this bill or that bill from this organization or that organization.
Neither Tommy or Debra have ever answered publicly about the circumstances of their engagement. I’m not sure how you can be engaged to someone and it isn’t serious????
As far as Dan James, you have to weigh through his information. Some of it is good information and some is just rubbish. jmo
As far as did Richard say anything to Rachel’s parents, I’d seriously doubt it but that’s a very good question. It’s possible.
Good luck with the kids.

 

[tilomagnet]

This thread is a very frustrating read. Lots of innuendo and hearsay; I wish people would post what they know.

 

[Wishyouknew]

This thread is a very frustrating read. Lots of innuendo and hearsay; I wish people would post what they know.

What do you know?

 

[JustHereForFortWorth3]

In regards to TT’s “not serious” engagement to DA, and subsequent marriage to Rachel: I wonder if CA/FA met TT first, and realized that him marrying into the family could possibly keep the family business (and revenue stream) going as CA got sicker. Bonus that he was relatively financially stable himself. The incentive for him might have been the promise of inheriting an established business (and having a built-in babysitter when his son visited?).

Maybe they set him up with DA first and it didn’t work out for whatever reason, and then Rachel was next—and last—in line. If that’s true, I wonder how she felt about the marriage and whether there was familial or other pressure on her to keep it going.

Just some thoughts.

edited phrasing for clarity

 

[Wishyouknew]

In regards to TT’s “not serious” engagement to DA, and subsequent marriage to Rachel: I wonder if CA/FA met TT first, and realized that him marrying into the family could possibly keep the family business (and revenue stream) going as CA got sicker. Bonus that he was relatively financially stable himself. The incentive for him might have been the promise of inheriting an established business (and having a built-in babysitter when his son visited?).

Maybe they set him up with DA first and it didn’t work out for whatever reason, and then Rachel was next—and last—in line. If that’s true, I wonder how she felt about the marriage and whether pressure to keep it going was on her.

Just some thoughts.

It would really be nice to hear from some of her friends from school to see if she was on board with this whole marriage thing. That’s the thing about this case is, there’s a whole lot that can be speculated on. However arranged marriages and dowries have been around for centuries and are not unheard of. This is my family and I find it A VERY ODD situation! I’ve never even dated anyone my sister dated. That’s just against the rules imo...but, strange things do happen.

 

[JustHereForFortWorth3]

I agree—lots to speculate on, but very few facts. And I’m with you on not dating a sibling’s ex (or a friend’s ex, for that matter!). But I can see how it might be different with the arrangement wasn’t entirely a romantic one, and if the family was supportive based on needing the help.

What happened to CA’s business after he passed?

Edited to add: Do you know if she had any close friends in school? I don’t remember reading any statements from friends anywhere at any point. Would certainly add some insight.

 

[Wishyouknew]

It appears as though Tommy stayed on with Arnold Transmission for a few months after Cotton passed. I’m doing a little research into all of that but it appears to have gone out of business when Tommy left. There was so much taxes owed to the IRS, it took Fran well into the 80’s to catch them up.
I’ve spoke with a few friends of Rachel’s but none were really close at the time of the disappearance. I’d love for some to come forward. It would be great to hear what they have to say.

 

[MissLaura]

Maybe he can be prosecuted for one or both of those assaults—if the statute of limitations hasn't expired. They key, though, will be finding those barrels of transmission fluid (which probably contain the bodies of Rachel, Renee, and Julie).

ETA: Former member FtWorth_Cat was certain that Tommy had drowned the girls in a car; I wonder why she didn't know about the barrels of transmission fluid. That car situation seems like a wild goose chase in retrospect. The barrels were the obvious answer all along.

How did the barrels of transmission fluid first come up? What's the story or theory here? These were at the garage where TT and CA worked?

 

[Ozoner]

How did the barrels of transmission fluid first come up? What's the story or theory here? These were at the garage where TT and CA worked?

Yes. According to a verified insider, TT admitted to getting rid of three barrels of "transmission fluid" from the shop the day after the girls disappeared. Because, I mean, disposing of transmission fluid would be a perfectly normal priority on Christmas Eve when your wife and her two friends are missing.

 

[Wishyouknew]

Yes. According to a verified insider, TT admitted to getting rid of three barrels of "transmission fluid" from the shop the day after the girls disappeared. Because, I mean, disposing of transmission fluid would be a perfectly normal priority on Christmas Eve when your wife and her two friends are missing.

It was actually the day after Christmas. And I’m trying to find that statement again. It came from Tommy. May not quote me on the number of barrels but he definitely told a few of us that they disposed of fluid the day after Christmas when they returned to work. I’ll find it this afternoon.

 

[Wishyouknew]

It was actually the day after Christmas. And I’m trying to find that statement again. It came from Tommy. May not quote me on the number of barrels but he definitely told a few of us that they disposed of fluid the day after Christmas when they returned to work. I’ll find it this afternoon.

This is the exact response when discussing the Barrels.

Tommy said he went back to work
Maybe 3 days after. And they disposed of transmission fluid in Drums not sure how many gallons they were

Then that conversation was finished. No more questions answered....

 

[FW_Froggy]

This is the exact response when discussing the Barrels.

Tommy said he went back to work
Maybe 3 days after. And they disposed of transmission fluid in Drums not sure how many gallons they were

Then that conversation was finished. No more questions answered....

The way that reads a tanker truck could of came and drained all the barrels.

 

[JustHereForFortWorth3]

Did they dispose of the actual drums? And, if so, what was the means of disposal? I admit that this seems suspicious at first glance if you suspect TT, and I don’t necessarily *not* suspect him, but I’m not convinced on this info alone.

What was Rachel’s temperament like? Gregarious and outgoing? Shy and introverted? Independent, or always preferring company? I ask because another thing that has struck me lately is how many people she invited to go shopping with her that day. Shopping is almost always more fun with company, but there are various reports indicating that she asked at least 7 people to go shopping with her and it doesn’t seem like any of them were close friends. (For the record, here are the 7 I can recall: DA, FA, Renee, Renee’s boyfriend/Julie’s brother, the two friends who agreed to meet up for lunch, and California Jacket (allegedly).) Then, of course, she agreed to Julie tagging along.

So, was she lonely and wanted company? Was she the “the more the merrier” type and just enjoyed company? Was she generally skittish shopping by herself? (I get this, as a formerly-young female.) Was she particularly hesitant to be alone that day, and thinking there would be strength in numbers?

This might be a reach, and is probably an obscure thing to wonder about, but it’s something that has been on my mind today, and I would love to hear if anyone else has thoughts or insight on this.

 

[johnbelt]

Did they dispose of the actual drums? And, if so, what was the means of disposal? I admit that this seems suspicious at first glance if you suspect TT, and I don’t necessarily *not* suspect him, but I’m not convinced on this info alone.

What was Rachel’s temperament like? Gregarious and outgoing? Shy and introverted? Independent, or always preferring company? I ask because another thing that has struck me lately is how many people she invited to go shopping with her that day. Shopping is almost always more fun with company, but there are various reports indicating that she asked at least 7 people to go shopping with her and it doesn’t seem like any of them were close friends. (For the record, here are the 7 I can recall: DA, FA, Renee, Renee’s boyfriend/Julie’s brother, the two friends who agreed to meet up for lunch, and California Jacket (allegedly).) Then, of course, she agreed to Julie tagging along.

So, was she lonely and wanted company? Was she the “the more the merrier” type and just enjoyed company? Was she generally skittish shopping by herself? (I get this, as a formerly-young female.) Was she particularly hesitant to be alone that day, and thinking there would be strength in numbers?

This might be a reach, and is probably an obscure thing to wonder about, but it’s something that has been on my mind today, and I would love to hear if anyone else has thoughts or insight on this.

For what its worth TT said Rachel would have never invited FA.

 

[Wilma_W]

Did they dispose of the actual drums? And, if so, what was the means of disposal? I admit that this seems suspicious at first glance if you suspect TT, and I don’t necessarily *not* suspect him, but I’m not convinced on this info alone.

What was Rachel’s temperament like? Gregarious and outgoing? Shy and introverted? Independent, or always preferring company? I ask because another thing that has struck me lately is how many people she invited to go shopping with her that day. Shopping is almost always more fun with company, but there are various reports indicating that she asked at least 7 people to go shopping with her and it doesn’t seem like any of them were close friends. (For the record, here are the 7 I can recall: DA, FA, Renee, Renee’s boyfriend/Julie’s brother, the two friends who agreed to meet up for lunch, and California Jacket (allegedly).) Then, of course, she agreed to Julie tagging along.

So, was she lonely and wanted company? Was she the “the more the merrier” type and just enjoyed company? Was she generally skittish shopping by herself? (I get this, as a formerly-young female.) Was she particularly hesitant to be alone that day, and thinking there would be strength in numbers?

This might be a reach, and is probably an obscure thing to wonder about, but it’s something that has been on my mind today, and I would love to hear if anyone else has thoughts or insight on this.

I noticed that on the Gone Cold podcast. It could be anything, but it just really seemed like she was intent on not being alone, and I wondered whether that could be because she felt that as long as she had multiple people with her, then she wouldn't be in danger. She would be less likely, anyway to get yelled at if surrounded by (non-family) people.

 

[Love trumps all]

This is the exact response when discussing the Barrels.

Tommy said he went back to work
Maybe 3 days after. And they disposed of transmission fluid in Drums not sure how many gallons they were

Then that conversation was finished. No more questions answered....

that is not what he said.
He said he went back to work maybe 3,or 4days later &then later there was a question of did y'all use Barells to dispose of old fluid he said we used drums he did Not say that day they empty the drums. Kellie why do you keep on you are as bad as RA about putting stuff out there as truth that is not

 

[tilomagnet]

What do you know?

I have no inside knowledge. Im just an interested sleuth annoyed by the innuendo and "....I know 99% sure who did it, but cant tell..." posts in this thread. Its been almost 50 years, no progress of any kind will be made with this attitude.

 

[johnbelt]

Love trumps all remember in our group when you posted a message from DA's son wanting TT to take a DNA test to see if he was his father?Was this her son with the guy she married seven weeks after Rachel disappeared?

 

[Wishyouknew]

that is not what he said.
He said he went back to work maybe 3,or 4days later &then later there was a question of did y'all use Barells to dispose of old fluid he said we used drums he did Not say that day they empty the drums. Kellie why do you keep on you are as bad as RA about putting stuff out there as truth that is not

Ok when I have a chance I will screenshot where YOU wrote that and send it to you in a pm since it against ws policy to post it publicly. However I will not argue or talk disrespectful to you as you did me....
Ozoner was in that group also. Im not the only one...