TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

[Ozoner]

The cars were and the last one is still a good place to search. I don’t buy the story of it being cleared. Don’t trust those that preformed that excursion. But could barrels be at the bottom of the lake or another lake? Surly there had to be another employee at that shop. Who drove the tow truck? And there were multiple locations. So there has to be more employees.

It depends on how they disposed of the barrels. Did they schedule a pick up with their normal hazardous waste disposal company? If they did, then the barrels were probably picked up and buried in a landfill. I assume that that's what happened to most hazardous waste back then. I don't think that there was any recycling going on in that era.

If Tommy disposed of the barrels himself, they could have been dumped anywhere. I hope they weren't taken to the local furnace to be melted for scrap; if they were, then the evidence is gone.

As far as there having been more employees, I'm not so sure that there would have been more at that location. I've had work done at auto shops where there were only two employees, the owner and a helper.

I can't see any reason why Debra would lie about the timeline unless she helped Tommy dispose of the other two girls. Tommy most likely killed Rachel in a fit of rage due to jealousy over California Jacket Guy; maybe Debra helped him tie up the other two girls, who were then drowned in the barrels of transmission fluid.

 

[FW_Froggy]

The cars were and the last one is still a good place to search. I don’t buy the story of it being cleared. Don’t trust those that preformed that excursion. But could barrels be at the bottom of the lake or another lake? Surly there had to be another employee at that shop. Who drove the tow truck? And there were multiple locations. So there has to be more employees.

How many Arnold Transmission shops were open for business in December of 1974?

 

[#JUSTICE4WILDER]

How many Arnold Transmission shops were open for business in December of 1974?

One

 

[Wishyouknew]

This add is from March of 73. Now that’s not to say that one couldn’t have closed between this date and 12/23/74. But it’s a good indication there were two. It also states free tow which you would have to have a driver for. And FACTORY TRAINED TECHNICIANS which throws that “Tommy gave Cotton $10,000 to train him” story out the window. And technicianS. Two locations. I’d say there were more employees than Tommy and a stage 4 melanoma patient. Jmo Hope the add is clear.

 

[FW_Froggy]

This add is from March of 73. Now that’s not to say that one couldn’t have closed between this date and 12/23/74. But it’s a good indication there were two. It also states free tow which you would have to have a driver for. And FACTORY TRAINED TECHNICIANS which throws that “Tommy gave Cotton $10,000 to train him” story out the window. And technicianS. Two locations. I’d say there were more employees than Tommy and a stage 4 melanoma patient. Jmo Hope the add is clear.

That's a long time between 3/1973 and 12/1974. Do you have any adds from Dec of 1974?

 

[T rex]

Thought I would post this. I dont know if it already has been or how much help it will be. According to the Texas Secretary of State the business in question was Arnold's Transmission Inc. It was registered June 20 1974 and the agent was Thomas A Trlica. The mailing and office address was 801-A Abram St Arlington but it doesn't say anything about how many physical addresses there may have been. I can not find anything else pertaining to an Arnold's Transmission. It will not let me provide a direct link or I would.

 

[Wishyouknew]

The Fort Worth Missing Trio Part 7: The Mall Passer, The Eleven, & No Ending

 

[FW_Froggy]

Thought I would post this. I dont know if it already has been or how much help it will be. According to the Texas Secretary of State the business in question was Arnold's Transmission Inc. It was registered June 20 1974 and the agent was Thomas A Trlica. The mailing and office address was 801-A Abram St Arlington but it doesn't say anything about how many physical addresses there may have been. I can not find anything else pertaining to an Arnold's Transmission. It will not let me provide a direct link or I would.

Is the agent the registered owner?

 

[Valiant]

This add is from March of 73. Now that’s not to say that one couldn’t have closed between this date and 12/23/74. But it’s a good indication there were two. It also states free tow which you would have to have a driver for. And FACTORY TRAINED TECHNICIANS which throws that “Tommy gave Cotton $10,000 to train him” story out the window. And technicianS. Two locations. I’d say there were more employees than Tommy and a stage 4 melanoma patient. Jmo Hope the add is clear.

it's possible the transmission shop contracted with a towing company that gave them a discounted rate so they could offer this free service to customers.
"Factory trained' can mean that Cotton (or someone else) purchased training materials approved by the factory and that material trained the "factory trained" technicians. But I agree, Tommy and Cotton were probably not the only workers at any location.

 

[T rex]

Is the agent the registered owner?

Not necessarily the owner but often times is with a small business.

 

[Goldenlancehead]

Try looking at this case from a different perspective.

For 46 years law enforcement, private detectives, family members, friends, websleuths, arm chair detectives and the like have been trying to find a "mistake" that the perpetrator(s) may have made to help solve this case.

The only thing to come of this is an echo chamber of non provable theories.

Nobody is any closer to discovering anything new that would stand up in a court of law today than on December 24th, 1974.

There is no physical evidence besides a letter that DNA could be used on. Unfortunately without a deathbed confession the possibility of this case ever being solved is remote.

Instead of trying to find a "mistake" our investigation should attempt to follow a "skill" set that has allowed a perpetrator elude justice all this time.

The same methodology that was used in "Silence of the Lambs" could be applied to this case.

The investigator could selectively poll inmates about the general facts of this case without disclosing enough information where a respondent could "insert" themself into the case.

Edward Bell played the journalist from Houston like a fiddle. She was on the right track though.

The criteria used to qualify inmates would probably be best determined by a psychologist.

If the sample group was of decent size the feedback might give new ideas on WHY whatever happened to the girls that only a criminal would know.

WHY is as big of a question as WHAT happened to the girls.

Somebody might not know who specifically, but could give a realistic scenario why.

The letter makes sex trafficking prohibitive in this case, but all other answers could be assumed as leads.

There would be nothing to lose with this approach at this point in time.

As a side note I am 100% convinced drugs are at the core of this case. The case makes no sense otherwise. Too many people including LE haven't been cooperative at different points.

There are secrets that will be taken to the grave.

Drugs are secretive and duplicitous by nature.

 

[#JUSTICE4WILDER]

@Goldenlancehead clap..clap..applause...standing Ovation...from this audience WS member! Truth & Honest have long been used in conjuction with hurts & brutal. Sad but truer words I've not heard till yours.

 

[Ozoner]

Try looking at this case from a different perspective.

For 46 years law enforcement, private detectives, family members, friends, websleuths, arm chair detectives and the like have been trying to find a "mistake" that the perpetrator(s) may have made to help solve this case.

The only thing to come of this is an echo chamber of non provable theories.

Nobody is any closer to discovering anything new that would stand up in a court of law today than on December 24th, 1974.

There is no physical evidence besides a letter that DNA could be used on. Unfortunately without a deathbed confession the possibility of this case ever being solved is remote.

Instead of trying to find a "mistake" our investigation should attempt to follow a "skill" set that has allowed a perpetrator elude justice all this time.

The same methodology that was used in "Silence of the Lambs" could be applied to this case.

The investigator could selectively poll inmates about the general facts of this case without disclosing enough information where a respondent could "insert" themself into the case.

Edward Bell played the journalist from Houston like a fiddle. She was on the right track though.

The criteria used to qualify inmates would probably be best determined by a psychologist.

If the sample group was of decent size the feedback might give new ideas on WHY whatever happened to the girls that only a criminal would know.

WHY is as big of a question as WHAT happened to the girls.

Somebody might not know who specifically, but could give a realistic scenario why.

The letter makes sex trafficking prohibitive in this case, but all other answers could be assumed as leads.

There would be nothing to lose with this approach at this point in time.

As a side note I am 100% convinced drugs are at the core of this case. The case makes no sense otherwise. Too many people including LE haven't been cooperative at different points.

There are secrets that will be taken to the grave.

Drugs are secretive and duplicitous by nature.

Drugs? Nah.

The most likely scenario—99.99%, in my opinion—is that TT killed the girls and disposed of them in those barrels of transmission fluid.

It is a certainty that TT wrote the letter that was never in the bogus envelope that he provided.

Did LE have luminol back in 1974? If they had used it on the house on Minot, I think that it would have lit up like a Roman candle. I think that the killing of Rachel was done in a rage, and even if TT killed her with his bare fists, there was probably significant blood evidence. LE never bothered to treat the house on Minot as a potential crime scene because they wrote off the girls as runaways.

It is a virtual certainty that the stupidity of the Ft. Worth detectives back in 1974 allowed TT to get away with a triple murder.

So yes, they did make mistakes. If they had considered the possibility that the car in the mall parking lot was staged and had treated the house on Minot as a potential crime scene, they probably would have discovered the truth. If they had done their due diligence and investigated all properties that TT had access to, then in all likelihood they would have discovered the girls' bodies in the barrels of transmission fluid before those barrels were disposed of.

So it isn't that there were no mistakes in the investigation; it's that those mistakes were so egregious that it would be practically impossible to make up for them now. The only remote possibility would be finding those barrels—if they weren't incinerated.

 

[snakefinger]

The letter makes sex trafficking prohibitive in this case, but all other answers could be assumed as leads.

Excellent post, although I do somewhat disagree with your statement above.
I'm open to most scenarios at this point. I do know which of them spike my interest, as well as those that elicit a shrug.

Your thoughts on drug involvement are interesting. The "Dazed and Confused" era of the mid-1970's was a far different time from now.
But there were most definitely dangers then as well.

 

[T rex]

Try looking at this case from a different perspective.

For 46 years law enforcement, private detectives, family members, friends, websleuths, arm chair detectives and the like have been trying to find a "mistake" that the perpetrator(s) may have made to help solve this case.

The only thing to come of this is an echo chamber of non provable theories.

Nobody is any closer to discovering anything new that would stand up in a court of law today than on December 24th, 1974.

There is no physical evidence besides a letter that DNA could be used on. Unfortunately without a deathbed confession the possibility of this case ever being solved is remote.

Instead of trying to find a "mistake" our investigation should attempt to follow a "skill" set that has allowed a perpetrator elude justice all this time.

The same methodology that was used in "Silence of the Lambs" could be applied to this case.

The investigator could selectively poll inmates about the general facts of this case without disclosing enough information where a respondent could "insert" themself into the case.

Edward Bell played the journalist from Houston like a fiddle. She was on the right track though.

The criteria used to qualify inmates would probably be best determined by a psychologist.

If the sample group was of decent size the feedback might give new ideas on WHY whatever happened to the girls that only a criminal would know.

WHY is as big of a question as WHAT happened to the girls.

Somebody might not know who specifically, but could give a realistic scenario why.

The letter makes sex trafficking prohibitive in this case, but all other answers could be assumed as leads.

There would be nothing to lose with this approach at this point in time.

As a side note I am 100% convinced drugs are at the core of this case. The case makes no sense otherwise. Too many people including LE haven't been cooperative at different points.

There are secrets that will be taken to the grave.

Drugs are secretive and duplicitous by nature.

Skill set? The skill here, I believe, was recognizing that LE wasn't taking this serious from the start and then fabricating and forging a letter in a missing persons name stating they've gone to Houston for a week in order to buy more time.
As for drugs being involved, well I don't know what all was involved. I think a lot of things may have been involved. I think this was something that built up over time but there was one straw that broke the camel's back and that straw fell on Dec. 23 1974.
I followed this case some years ago but there seems to be a whole lot more information out there now about it. I have my own theories although I'm not sure how comfortable I am posting most of it but there's a reason why I decided to chime in during a discussion about the shop or shops (Whichever it was at the time).

 

[Goldenlancehead]

I respectfully disagree with your theory of TT being a triple murderer. You are giving him way too much credit. For him to interact with the police within hours of committing a triple murder, disposing of bodies and remaining completely calm is pure fantasy. Competent or not if FWPD really thought he was the actual killer they would have found a way to burn him one way or another. We can walk through this scenario in another thread if you like.

What I am absolutely convinced of is TT and Debra share a "secret" that would have broken this case wide open had they cooperated with FWPD early on. I don't believe either of them actively participated in the disappearance of the girls. This "secret" is not about them having relations either.

This "secret" has caused Debra angst her entire life.

All of the families know deep down she has never told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

As far as FWPD being incompetent, that is debatable. What I do know is in 1974 FWPD was ruthless and vindictive if they felt they were being played. There is a clear reason FWPD would want this case to go away, but I'm not going to post it here. It is a purely speculative and dangerous scenario.

I completely dismiss the theories that the girls were the victims of an interaction with a stranger(s) who kidnapped them using a weapon or a "strong arm" technique.

These girls were lambs that walked right into a trap.

Let's look at a PURELY SPECULATIVE scenario of what realistically could have happened the day they disappeared.

First they go to Army -Navy and Renee picks up her layaway. Julie stays in the car as best we know. Maybe they make it to Seminary South maybe the don't.

The girls make another stop. This is where the girls meet their end. This is the "secret" that TT and Debra know. TT and Debra know enough about this stop to be absolutely
terrified when the girls come up missing.

Keep in mind we're talking about juveniles.
Not only do TT and Debra have legal exposure if they tell the truth about the reason for the stop, they would have to explain how they know about this stop to all of the families and what the ugly truth is.

On top of this they have to worry about their own safety. They don't fully cooperate with law enforcement for these reasons.

This is the worst possible position for them to be in.

The letter isn't an attempt to buy time or divert FWPD. It is a message to the people at the stop that we're not going to finger you.

Plant this in your brain box garden and sprinkle a little water on it:

Decent people put themselves in situations with others they would NEVER interact with normally when they go to cop.

People get robbed and/or murdered every day when they go to cop. The deal can go bad at the drop of a hat. It is an indisputable fact.

One thing that will get you killed in this world regardless of your sex or age is if someone thinks you might inform on them and send them to prison.

Who got booted from their apartment for non payment of rent and yet had a job. How do you explain this?

Who worked in bars? Best connects ever are people who work in bars.

The main reason Renee wanted to be home by 4 was so she could go to a party.

Absolutely no disrespect to the girls. They are as innocent as a driven snow.

Drugs, deceit, theft and violence fit like hand in glove.

FYI, some background info on me.

I graduated from Southwest in 78. I had just turned 14 when the girls disappeared. Renee would have been in my graduating class.
I lived on Lawndale, two streets over from Minot. To say this case hits close to home is an understatement.

 

[snakefinger]

First they go to Army -Navy and Renee picks up her layaway. Julie stays in the car as best we know. Maybe they make it to Seminary South maybe the don't.

The girls make another stop. This is where the girls meet their end. This is the "secret" that TT and Debra know. TT and Debra know enough about this stop to be absolutely
terrified when the girls come up missing.

Either way in your speculation, it leaves a question as to the car being at Seminary South. As well as the girls being observed there.
Not dismissing it, just saying that it raises additional aspects.

 

[Goldenlancehead]

It could be as simple as they did go to Seminary South and then when to the other stop. The people at the stop could have found this out and dumped the car there after.

 

[TedMac]

I respectfully disagree with your theory of TT being a triple murderer. You are giving him way too much credit. For him to interact with the police within hours of committing a triple murder, disposing of bodies and remaining completely calm is pure fantasy. Competent or not if FWPD really thought he was the actual killer they would have found a way to burn him one way or another. We can walk through this scenario in another thread if you like.

What I am absolutely convinced of is TT and Debra share a "secret" that would have broken this case wide open had they cooperated with FWPD early on. I don't believe either of them actively participated in the disappearance of the girls. This "secret" is not about them having relations either.

This "secret" has caused Debra angst her entire life.

All of the families know deep down she has never told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

As far as FWPD being incompetent, that is debatable. What I do know is in 1974 FWPD was ruthless and vindictive if they felt they were being played. There is a clear reason FWPD would want this case to go away, but I'm not going to post it here. It is a purely speculative and dangerous scenario.

I completely dismiss the theories that the girls were the victims of an interaction with a stranger(s) who kidnapped them using a weapon or a "strong arm" technique.

These girls were lambs that walked right into a trap.

Let's look at a PURELY SPECULATIVE scenario of what realistically could have happened the day they disappeared.

First they go to Army -Navy and Renee picks up her layaway. Julie stays in the car as best we know. Maybe they make it to Seminary South maybe the don't.

The girls make another stop. This is where the girls meet their end. This is the "secret" that TT and Debra know. TT and Debra know enough about this stop to be absolutely
terrified when the girls come up missing.

Keep in mind we're talking about juveniles.
Not only do TT and Debra have legal exposure if they tell the truth about the reason for the stop, they would have to explain how they know about this stop to all of the families and what the ugly truth is.

On top of this they have to worry about their own safety. They don't fully cooperate with law enforcement for these reasons.

This is the worst possible position for them to be in.

The letter isn't an attempt to buy time or divert FWPD. It is a message to the people at the stop that we're not going to finger you.

Plant this in your brain box garden and sprinkle a little water on it:

Decent people put themselves in situations with others they would NEVER interact with normally when they go to cop.

People get robbed and/or murdered every day when they go to cop. The deal can go bad at the drop of a hat. It is an indisputable fact.

One thing that will get you killed in this world regardless of your sex or age is if someone thinks you might inform on them and send them to prison.

Who got booted from their apartment for non payment of rent and yet had a job. How do you explain this?

Who worked in bars? Best connects ever are people who work in bars.

The main reason Renee wanted to be home by 4 was so she could go to a party.

Absolutely no disrespect to the girls. They are as innocent as a driven snow.

Drugs, deceit, theft and violence fit like hand in glove.

FYI, some background info on me.

I graduated from Southwest in 78. I had just turned 14 when the girls disappeared. Renee would have been in my graduating class.
I lived on Lawndale, two streets over from Minot. To say this case hits close to home is an understatement.

Interesting post.

You mentioned "These girls were lambs that walked right into a trap" and "The girls make another stop. This is where the girls meet their end." Plus, you say "Absolutely no disrespect to the girls. They are as innocent as a driven snow."

I have several follow-up questions:
Have you shared this information with either the FBI and/or Fort Worth PD?
Why did the girls go to this place where they met their end?
What is the motive here? If the girls were "innocent as driven snow", why were they killed?
If these killers were that vicious as you described and TT & Debra had knowledge of them, why were they not killed also? What connection did TT & Debra have with these killers?
Who did get "booted from their apartment for non payment of rent and yet had a job. How do you explain this?"
And lastly, how do you have knowledge of all of this?

Thank you in advance for answering these questions.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Interesting post.

You mentioned "These girls were lambs that walked right into a trap" and "The girls make another stop. This is where the girls meet their end." Plus, you say "Absolutely no disrespect to the girls. They are as innocent as a driven snow."

I have several follow-up questions:
Have you shared this information with either the FBI and/or Fort Worth PD?
Why did the girls go to this place where they met their end?
What is the motive here? If the girls were "innocent as driven snow", why were they killed?
If these killers were that vicious as you described and TT & Debra had knowledge of them, why were they not killed also? What connection did TT & Debra have with these killers?
Who did get "booted from their apartment for non payment of rent and yet had a job. How do you explain this?"
And lastly, how do you have knowledge of all of this?

Thank you in advance for answering these questions.

That would be my question too if these people were so mean and vicious why would they let TT and DA live for 46 more years?