TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

[Wishyouknew]

Randol Mill maybe for RM? No doubt apartments by that name. Also continues into Arlington. Arlington Memorial Hospital (or whatever it's called now) is on Randolph Mill Rd. Not too far from shop, wonder if Cotton had chemo around there.

His chemo treatment was administered at home. It was a topical treatment where they would scrape the surface of his skin and apply a topical solution. Fran and Cotton never left 6th Avenue that day.

 

[Wishyouknew]

Randol Mill maybe for RM? No doubt apartments by that name. Also continues into Arlington. Arlington Memorial Hospital (or whatever it's called now) is on Randolph Mill Rd. Not too far from shop, wonder if Cotton had chemo around there.

His chemo treatment was administered at home. It was a topical treatment where they would scrape the surface of his skin and apply a topical solution. Fran and Cotton never left 6th Avenue that day.

 

[Wishyouknew]

I

Just an FYI...you do not have to be psychopath to beat a polygraph. We were taught how to beat them in the military and how people can beat them. I am not gonna get into all the physical ways to throw one off, but here is the best way. I am definitely not a psychopath, but I could beat one almost any day. It's called question replacement. Most if not all questions asked are yes and no questions right and if you have info you don't want them to know then you know which questions to replace. For instance...if they ask you "Did you kill so and so?" and you actually did, then in your mind just before you answer you ask yourself something that has an answer of definitely NO, like " Did I eat lobster for breakfast?" and always have a definitely YES answer ready as well. For instance they ask you "Were you at home on the night of so and so?" Then in your mind just before you answer, you ask yourself something that definitely has an answer of YES "Do I have on white socks today?" You keep those 2 questions ready for YES and NO answers and I am telling you, you can pass. We had a retired FBI agent give us a test just to see how to do it, and I am sure that if I was given a polygraph about whether or not I killed Jimmy Hoffa, I would pass as the killer (even though I was born after he was killed) with flying colors. It's as simple as that and that is just one way a normal person can pass. That is why polygraphs are inadmissible in court. They are a useful tool sometimes, but they are VERY unreliable. There are other things we saw, and the most pathetic is that the FBI agent told us that some of their own guys literally asked other agencies, How do you want this to read before they even gave the polygraph. I wouldn't take any results from a polygraph as accurate...EVER. I am not saying they aren't or can't be, but after knowing what I know....it can be beat and has flaws that can be taken advantage of.

Very interesting. Tommy was military. How far advanced were you before they taught you this? Also it should be noted that Debras husband she married only weeks after the disappearance, his father was in the polygraph business....coincidence?

 

[Wishyouknew]

I just have to say, I’m so thankful for this podcast series! It is really opening up discussion on the case. And even if we don’t all agree, I’m thankful that the girls are getting attention. It does kinda floor me that no one pays attention to the fact that Tommy wrote that letter. @johnbelt can you share the podcasts on readit? Maybe they will help clear up some things.

 

[johnbelt]

I

Very interesting. Tommy was military. How far advanced were you before they taught you this? Also it should be noted that Debras husband she married only weeks after the disappearance, his father was in the polygraph business....coincidence?

I was regular army E-3 and never taught this but I know things like this went on at the school of the america's facility in Panama where I was stationed.

 

[johnbelt]

I just have to say, I’m so thankful for this podcast series! It is really opening up discussion on the case. And even if we don’t all agree, I’m thankful that the girls are getting attention. It does kinda floor me that no one pays attention to the fact that Tommy wrote that letter. @johnbelt can you share the podcasts on readit? Maybe they will help clear up some things.

Someone is already I just need to get them to listen.Some people think wikapedia is the answer to everything.

 

[Wishyouknew]

Someone is already I just need to get them to listen.Some people think wikapedia is the answer to everything.

Well, you can lead a horse to water.....
I pray fwpd is listening because I have to say on some things Vincent definitely got farther than I did. Even my own cousin. I think he has a way of being very fair and allowing people to tell their story. I hope to hear more from all of the family members. Especially Tommy and Terry. I loved hearing Terry describe Renee’s tough girl side. That’s the one thing I’d like to know, did Tonny or Debra have any form of bruises, scrapes, cuts, any signs of a physical altercation. I believe Rachel and Renee would have fought if at all possible.

 

[MissLaura]

Someone is already I just need to get them to listen.Some people think wikapedia is the answer to everything.

That was me who linked the podcast. Hopefully some of them will listen to it. I wanted to pull my hair out reading some of the comments about the Fort Worth Weekly article.

 

[johnbelt]

I found it interesting that Debra married a man whose father made lie detectors.It didn't seem to help her though.

 

[Wishyouknew]

I don’t even go to many other sites anymore. Here is where I can speak and on my personal FB page. However if anything interesting comes up y’all please let me know. I just got quarantined for the next few days so if I get the chance who knows I may go over there and see. That article was VERY painful to read. Sad that you can’t believe the immediate family. Who would ever think that one would do so much harm to their own families case? Disgusting!

 

[Thewop356]

I

Very interesting. Tommy was military. How far advanced were you before they taught you this? Also it should be noted that Debras husband she married only weeks after the disappearance, his father was in the polygraph business....coincidence?

It isn't about how far advanced you were, it was about your Military Occupational Specialty. I was an MP and learned the polygraph testing when my unit did some training with some retired FBI agents. It was a very interesting class about human communications and how to use physical responses to tell if someone was lying or not. Like I said though, none of it was admissable in court or could be used to legally charge someone but it was still very educational and even though I took that training back in 1999, I remember it clearly, because it was so much fun. One day one of our NCOs asked the agent a couple of questions about lie detectors and truth serum and the agent went off this 2 hour tangent. So what happened was the class split up in 2. One half was going to be asking questions and administering the polygraph and the other half was going to be taking the lie detector and trying to purposely deceive the other group. I was in the group who was getting taught how to lie and beat the polygraph. There are some normal human responses to lying that most normal people cannot avoid doing, but unfortunately some psychopaths or other mentally disturbed people can actually convince themselves to believe their own version of the events instead of the actual truth. So our group was taught a few different techniques on how to beat the polygraph. A few of them were physical things to do with breathing and trying to control your heart rate. I found that a little difficult. What I found easy was the question replacement technique and the agent said that is the most effective method to beat it, but the funny thing is that it was someone who was trained in administering polygraphs who was telling us how to beat them. He told us a lot of stories about different things people have used to try and beat a polygraph, but what I truly remembered about the training was that I would never trust the results of a polygraph and that the agent and people that were trained like him, didn't really need a polygraph to tell if you were lying...they had much more reliable techniques after years of practice. Anyway...sorry I got off on a long tangent of my own, but I wouldn't put any weight one way or another on any polygraph results regarding this case. I heard that Debra refused to take a polygraph, well now that I heard that she married a man who's father was in the polygraph business, I can see why she refused. She may have heard stories from them about polygraphs. Like I said before, sometimes those guys can make a polygraph say what they want it to say to get a response from you. Don't trust polygraph results, they are a useful tool sometimes but are unreliable and inadmissible in a US court of law.

 

[Wishyouknew]

That’s very interesting. Thank you for that insight. Debra has taken two. The first she did walk out of. Got an attorney and went back and took it. What has been told to me is they were both inconclusive. And that she got an attorney due to the line of questioning she felt inappropriate. I wanted to know what those exact questions were. I’d love to read the q&a of both her and Tommy’s polygraphs. That would be interesting to say the least.

 

[johnbelt]

It isn't about how far advanced you were, it was about your Military Occupational Specialty. I was an MP and learned the polygraph testing when my unit did some training with some retired FBI agents. It was a very interesting class about human communications and how to use physical responses to tell if someone was lying or not. Like I said though, none of it was admissable in court or could be used to legally charge someone but it was still very educational and even though I took that training back in 1999, I remember it clearly, because it was so much fun. One day one of our NCOs asked the agent a couple of questions about lie detectors and truth serum and the agent went off this 2 hour tangent. So what happened was the class split up in 2. One half was going to be asking questions and administering the polygraph and the other half was going to be taking the lie detector and trying to purposely deceive the other group. I was in the group who was getting taught how to lie and beat the polygraph. There are some normal human responses to lying that most normal people cannot avoid doing, but unfortunately some psychopaths or other mentally disturbed people can actually convince themselves to believe their own version of the events instead of the actual truth. So our group was taught a few different techniques on how to beat the polygraph. A few of them were physical things to do with breathing and trying to control your heart rate. I found that a little difficult. What I found easy was the question replacement technique and the agent said that is the most effective method to beat it, but the funny thing is that it was someone who was trained in administering polygraphs who was telling us how to beat them. He told us a lot of stories about different things people have used to try and beat a polygraph, but what I truly remembered about the training was that I would never trust the results of a polygraph and that the agent and people that were trained like him, didn't really need a polygraph to tell if you were lying...they had much more reliable techniques after years of practice. Anyway...sorry I got off on a long tangent of my own, but I wouldn't put any weight one way or another on any polygraph results regarding this case. I heard that Debra refused to take a polygraph, well now that I heard that she married a man who's father was in the polygraph business, I can see why she refused. She may have heard stories from them about polygraphs. Like I said before, sometimes those guys can make a polygraph say what they want it to say to get a response from you. Don't trust polygraph results, they are a useful tool sometimes but are unreliable and inadmissible in a US court of law.

If only people new about all the MK Ultra stuff.This is way more interesting than anything I did in the Army.Thanks for the information.

 

[Goldenlancehead]

I have several questions regarding FWPD's interactions with TT and DA.

1)To the best of anyone's knowledge did they get a warrant for the phone logs of the Trlica household?
2)Has either TT or DA been arrested for anything prior to the disappearance?
3)To the best of anyone's knowledge has anyone outside of LE seen the case file? If so what year did they gain access?
TIA

 

[Paul B.]

If only people new about all the MK Ultra stuff.This is way more interesting than anything I did in the Army.Thanks for the information.

the CIA destroyed most of its files on MK Ultra

 

[k-mac]

@Kellijeanarnold thank you for being here.
Such a maddening case yet as usual the most obvious choices are usually correct even if unprovable.

IMO I have always felt strange about Debra and Tommy being in a serious relationship and then he takes up with her little sister. No way this was a peaceful all sweet situation.
Who would be ok with your new husbands ex fiancé moving in to your home??
Ok they sisters.....all the more emotional turmoil attached.
Add to it Tommy had been married before all this yet has a very young son.
What a stud. what a catch....

Are there any pictures of Tommy and debra around?
I would love to know what they all look like.
Nothing on google unless I'm spelling it wrong :-/

If these two were mucking around on the side it didn't lead to anywhere. How many times have we seen affairs lead to homicide and then the relationship fizzles anyway.


moo

 

[Thewop356]

If only people new about all the MK Ultra stuff.This is way more interesting than anything I did in the Army.Thanks for the information.

I totally agree about the MK Ultra program, but unfortunately we will probably never know the extent of those studies or the actual effects it had on some of it participants. There are some really cool documentaries about that program, but how much is actually true is hard to say. The only thing about the MK Ultra program that I know for certain is that it did actually exist. How cool it would be to know the truth about the program and it's subjects. Happy New Year to ALL!!!

 

[Beekarina]

Jumping in to mention a UID posted recently who is not in NAMUS and shares some similarities with Julie. I have stronger thoughts towards one or two other missing girls, but want to share just in case. Maybe if trafficking was involved?

Both have light brown hair, blue eyes. The UID was thought to be maybe 15-16, but possibly younger. She was found in Louisiana, hours after death in July of 1979.

LA - Cauca, Female, 15-16, Old Metairie, Jefferson Parish, 22 Jul 1979

 

[FW_Froggy]

@Kellijeanarnold thank you for being here.
Such a maddening case yet as usual the most obvious choices are usually correct even if unprovable.

IMO I have always felt strange about Debra and Tommy being in a serious relationship and then he takes up with her little sister. No way this was a peaceful all sweet situation.
Who would be ok with your new husbands ex fiancé moving in to your home??
Ok they sisters.....all the more emotional turmoil attached.
Add to it Tommy had been married before all this yet has a very young son.
What a stud. what a catch....

Are there any pictures of Tommy and debra around?
I would love to know what they all look like.
Nothing on google unless I'm spelling it wrong :-/

If these two were mucking around on the side it didn't lead to anywhere. How many times have we seen affairs lead to homicide and then the relationship fizzles anyway.


moo

 

[FW_Froggy]

One theory that many believe is that the sisters wanted to marry TT for his money and that Love was never involved therefore there would be no jealousy. If you want to see DA she is in the videos of the first two cars being pulled from Benbrook Lake.