TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #6

[T rex]

They say the first 48 hrs is the most important to solving any crime. Well it has been over 48 yrs....

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Timelines are so hazy because everyone has a different story. I feel like the earlier time of about 10-10:30 is a good time for them leaving the Moseley’s house.

The GC podcast mentions a witness seeing the car being at the house at Minot at 12.30pm. Your theory about the earlier time for them leaving the Moseley home to go to the Mall got me thinking.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I suggested that the girls returned to the house at Minot and then the perp. may have struck.

One thing I couldn't figure out was, if the girls had all just walked into the house, surely there would be a good chance that one of them could have made it back out the front door before being attacked ?

But with this earlier timeline, what if it was the other way round? Perhaps the girls were already in the house first (after returning from the Mall), and then the perp(s) arrived?

 

[Ozoner]

The GC podcast mentions a witness seeing the car being at the house at Minot at 12.30pm. Your theory about the earlier time for them leaving the Moseley home to go to the Mall got me thinking.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I suggested that the girls returned to the house at Minot and then the perp. may have struck.

One thing I couldn't figure out was, if the girls had all just walked into the house, surely there would be a good chance that one of them could have made it back out the front door before being attacked ?

But with this earlier timeline, what if it was the other way round? Perhaps the girls were already in the house first (after returning from the Mall), and then the perp(s) arrived?

What if Rachel went into the house to drop off her purchases and was killed by TT while the other girls were waiting in the car? TT might not have even
initially realized that they were in the car.

Renee and Julie might have grown impatient after 10 or 15 minutes and come to the door to tell Rachel to hurry up.

At that time, they might have been lured into the house by DA, making her complicit in the crime.

TT and DA might have debated what to do with them and ultimately decided to tie them up while they staged the car at the mall. Then they might have taken the girls to the shop and drowned them in the barrels of transmission fluid.

 

[Wishyouknew]

What if Rachel went into the house to drop off her purchases and was killed by TT while the other girls were waiting in the car? TT might not have even
initially realized that they were in the car.

Renee and Julie might have grown impatient after 10 or 15 minutes and come to the door to tell Rachel to hurry up.

At that time, they might have been lured into the house by DA, making her complicit in the crime.

TT and DA might have debated what to do with them and ultimately decided to tie them up while they staged the car at the mall. Then they might have taken the girls to the shop and drowned them in the barrels of transmission fluid.

I never thought about Renee and Julie being in the car unexpectedly like that. Good thought process….

 

[Wishyouknew]

They say the first 48 hrs is the most important to solving any crime. Well it has been over 48 yrs....

Very sad and a gross injustice.

 

[T rex]

Back in thread #3 some of the insiders speaking on TT's behalf say that he claims to have been unaware of a second shop, the one in Fort Worth.
How can the registered agent of the business not be aware of this? I was wondering if he was trying to downplay his role in this business and distance himself from it, more specifically the one in Fort Worth.

 

[Ozoner]

Back in thread #3 some of the insiders speaking on TT's behalf say that he claims to have been unaware of a second shop, the one in Fort Worth.
How can the registered agent of the business not be aware of this? I was wondering if he was trying to downplay his role in this business and distance himself from it, more specifically the one in Fort Worth.

It sure seems like the people who were speaking on TT's behalf ghosted Websleuths as soon as we started talking about the barrels of transmission fluid.

 

[Wishyouknew]

Back in thread #3 some of the insiders speaking on TT's behalf say that he claims to have been unaware of a second shop, the one in Fort Worth.
How can the registered agent of the business not be aware of this? I was wondering if he was trying to downplay his role in this business and distance himself from it, more specifically the one in Fort Worth.

My thoughts exactly! Thank you!

 

[Wishyouknew]

It sure seems like the people who were speaking on TT's behalf ghosted Websleuths as soon as we started talking about the barrels of transmission fluid.

Yep. Silence speaks volumes. They are silent. But I assure you, no one acted alone in this. There is so much I wish I could say. So very much. It will come out at the appropriate time. Right now those that are TRULY looking for the truth, and TRULY want stones turned have a few cards up our selves. I just have to be very careful at the moment and be sure to play my cards right. If I leave this forum please know it is not by choice. And please know that won’t stop me. Y’all know where to find me if that happens. That’s all I’m going to say about that right now.

 

[Wishyouknew]

As far as the lass than 5 poi and dna, I just read the correction on this article and found it interesting. So they were at 5 or less prior to dba testing…..
After nearly 44 years, families of missing Fort Worth girls could get answers soon

 

[TedMac]

As far as the lass than 5 poi and dna, I just read the correction on this article and found it interesting. So they were at 5 or less prior to dba testing…..
After nearly 44 years, families of missing Fort Worth girls could get answers soon

I wish they would search Benbrook Lake for Barrels instead of vehicles.

 

[Wishyouknew]

I wish they would search Benbrook Lake for Barrels instead of vehicles.

I whole heartedly agree.

 

[T rex]

It sure seems like the people who were speaking on TT's behalf ghosted Websleuths as soon as we started talking about the barrels of transmission fluid.

And they run to DA's defense almost as fast as if it were TT but not CA. Of course it's always the dead man that gets thrown under the bus. I wonder if he were still alive, would they defend him too.
If TT was at work all day he couldn't possibly know what all everyone else was up to. He could only vouch for the ones that were there with him but it's strange the one that supposedly was is the one under the bus. Anybody that didn't already know the truth wouldn't dismiss a possibility when they claim they want the truth.

 

[Wishyouknew]

And they run to DA's defense almost as fast as if it were TT but not CA. Of course it's always the dead man that gets thrown under the bus. I wonder if he were still alive, would they defend him too.
If TT was at work all day he couldn't possibly know what all everyone else was up to. He could only vouch for the ones that were there with him but it's strange the one that supposedly was is the one under the bus. Anybody that didn't already know the truth wouldn't dismiss a possibility when they claim they want the truth.

Yep! You know what I just heard that I was the one that was all over the Cotton done it theory…. I definitely looked into the possibility but I honestly feel he was too sick to be involved. But if you read the ten Spurs article you clearly see who perpetrated that theory and who just kept on. Rusty was not happy when it was proven once and for all Cotton is NOT the father of Debra’s oldest child. I’m not saying Cotton was a good person. I didn’t know the man and I haven’t heard much mice about him. However Rusty is the one that has perpetuated all these lies and rumors of incest and some story about Cotton pulling a gun on Fran. I could see some things but as much as dear sweet aunty Fran disposes Cotton, I definitely don’t see her covering for all that for him. Her description of him to me was he was a sob. I don’t understand her of all people. Lying saying he was at the shop that day. Lying saying he was at the mall that night. Putting him as the alibi for Tommy from the very beginning and lying from the very beginning. Cotton Arnold had a cancer treatment that morning and did not leave that house that day. Someone needs to ask her since she and Cotton were at the shop then how did Rachel supposedly stop by and ask her to go shopping with her that day? The problem with a lie is over 47 years, they get more and more difficult to keep up with. Ever since Debra was given the writing analysis information, she and Rusty have become thick as thrives. Well let’s reference the ten Spurs article again, per Rusty she was pure evil. Now she’s “cleared” all of a sudden….. Let me sit down cause that’s a very touchy subject for me and I really need to stay here. I need to be able to have a place to speak up in the hopefully near future! Things are progressing.

 

[Wishyouknew]

Yep! You know what I just heard that I was the one that was all over the Cotton done it theory…. I definitely looked into the possibility but I honestly feel he was too sick to be involved. But if you read the ten Spurs article you clearly see who perpetrated that theory and who just kept on. Rusty was not happy when it was proven once and for all Cotton is NOT the father of Debra’s oldest child. I’m not saying Cotton was a good person. I didn’t know the man and I haven’t heard much mice about him. However Rusty is the one that has perpetuated all these lies and rumors of incest and some story about Cotton pulling a gun on Fran. I could see some things but as much as dear sweet aunty Fran disposes Cotton, I definitely don’t see her covering for all that for him. Her description of him to me was he was a sob. I don’t understand her of all people. Lying saying he was at the shop that day. Lying saying he was at the mall that night. Putting him as the alibi for Tommy from the very beginning and lying from the very beginning. Cotton Arnold had a cancer treatment that morning and did not leave that house that day. Someone needs to ask her since she and Cotton were at the shop then how did Rachel supposedly stop by and ask her to go shopping with her that day? The problem with a lie is over 47 years, they get more and more difficult to keep up with. Ever since Debra was given the writing analysis information, she and Rusty have become thick as thrives. Well let’s reference the ten Spurs article again, per Rusty she was pure evil. Now she’s “cleared” all of a sudden….. Let me sit down cause that’s a very touchy subject for me and I really need to stay here. I need to be able to have a place to speak up in the hopefully near future! Things are progressing.

I feel all that was done to protect the living. That’s my opinion only. Dead men can’t speak or defend themselves. This part of it all is just the sickest mess I’ve ever dealt with. Just makes me sick!

 

[T rex]

Well I don't know if he did all that stuff they said or not because I never knew him and I don't have any inside information other than whats been posted on these threads but I can certainly see why you and others may consider him a possibility because of it and of course his relation to one of the victims.
What amazes me though is why one side that claims TT was with CA all day would want to use it as ammunition against him to deflect. It just doesn't seem like all that smart of a tactic to me, but what do I know?

 

[Wishyouknew]

Well I don't know if he did all that stuff they said or not because I never knew him and I don't have any inside information other than whats been posted on these threads but I can certainly see why you and others may consider him a possibility because of it and of course his relation to one of the victims.
What amazes me though is why one side that claims TT was with CA all day would want to use it as ammunition against him to deflect. It just doesn't seem like all that smart of a tactic to me, but what do I know?

For either side. That’s what I can’t comprehend. Both sides point to the other side to blame but then use the other as their own alibi. It does not add up. I’m not saying Cotton wasn’t abusive. Most likely he was. I just don’t believe that a person who had no brain left because it was completely consumed by cancer when they died 6 months later (which is also in the 10 Spurs article) was conducting the abduction of three girls. I also can’t see him operating a motor vehicle. I reference that article because it shows multiple sides over a time period. It really exposes quite a few lies. Richard Wilson and his BFF which was Cotton and Fran’s neighbor is who sat at the mall that night. They were not on top of any building. They sat by where Chase Bank sits now. Richard only saw one Arnold at the mall and strangely enough it’s the only Arnold that denies being there…… she was with Tommy and they got there about 11 pm. per Richard and I believe him. Per Debra she “guarded the house all DAY.” She never left the house on the 23rd. Richard may be in his 80’e but he is sharp as a tack and nothing about his story has changed of the events that day since 12/23/1974. Those same neighbors said that the Arnold’s were home all day. Matter of fact Fran went next door about noon to ask if she could help get ready for the party that night. It was to be at their house. The party Renee wanted to be back to get ready for. such a sad thought, preparing fir a party one moment and in the blink of an eye….: nightmare…..
Here’s another question. Was Debra working the night if the 22nd or did she and Rachel stay up playing canasta? Cause both stories are Debra’s. I sure hope fwpd verified with Gino’s back in 1974 cause I’m sure they don’t have those records now. I wish I knew the source of the Pizza restaurant story. That would be very interesting. I hope fwpd also knew about that story and checked with the restaurant to verify. If nothing else if George Hudson had that information I bet he did…..

 

[Ozoner]

For either side. That’s what I can’t comprehend. Both sides point to the other side to blame but then use the other as their own alibi. It does not add up. I’m not saying Cotton wasn’t abusive. Most likely he was. I just don’t believe that a person who had no brain left because it was completely consumed by cancer when they died 6 months later (which is also in the 10 Spurs article) was conducting the abduction of three girls. I also can’t see him operating a motor vehicle. I reference that article because it shows multiple sides over a time period. It really exposes quite a few lies. Richard Wilson and his BFF which was Cotton and Fran’s neighbor is who sat at the mall that night. They were not on top of any building. They sat by where Chase Bank sits now. Richard only saw one Arnold at the mall and strangely enough it’s the only Arnold that denies being there…… she was with Tommy and they got there about 11 pm. per Richard and I believe him. Per Debra she “guarded the house all DAY.” She never left the house on the 23rd. Richard may be in his 80’e but he is sharp as a tack and nothing about his story has changed of the events that day since 12/23/1974. Those same neighbors said that the Arnold’s were home all day. Matter of fact Fran went next door about noon to ask if she could help get ready for the party that night. It was to be at their house. The party Renee wanted to be back to get ready for. such a sad thought, preparing fir a party one moment and in the blink of an eye….: nightmare…..
Here’s another question. Was Debra working the night if the 22nd or did she and Rachel stay up playing canasta? Cause both stories are Debra’s. I sure hope fwpd verified with Gino’s back in 1974 cause I’m sure they don’t have those records now. I wish I knew the source of the Pizza restaurant story. That would be very interesting. I hope fwpd also knew about that story and checked with the restaurant to verify. If nothing else if George Hudson had that information I bet he did…..

Do you think that anything could have been going on between Fran and TT?

That's one of only two reasons I can think of why Fran would supply TT with an alibi.

The other would be that Debra was involved in the killings and Fran knew it.

 

[snakefinger]

I wish they would search Benbrook Lake for Barrels instead of vehicles.

Not sure how productive that search would be. A steel barrel (much like most 70's era automobiles) might not be retrievable after nearly 50 years in water. Polyethylene barrels might be, although I'm not sure how prevalent those were back then. There's also the visibility issue and likelihood of locating something much smaller than a car.

Info on plastic barrels:
More advanced technology and manufacturing practices in the late 1960s allowed for another iteration of the barrel to come about: the plastic barrel. Plastic barrels are made from high density, high molecular weight polyethylene (HDPE).

 

[Wishyouknew]

No

Do you think that anything could have been going on between Fran and TT?

That's one of only two reasons I can think of why Fran would supply TT with an alibi.

The other would be that Debra was involved in the killings and Fran knew it.

I don’t believe anything was going on between Fran and Tommy.