TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #3

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LadyTudorRose said:
I see that, and I definitely think the ST article points in that direction, but I guess I see Blake's behavior as making sense on some level, Asperger's or no. I have a friend with Asperger's and if she had a boyfriend or husband with a lock box who never talked about his past, she would break that thing open as quickly as any of us. Asperger's could explain Blake not understanding that LEK's behavior was not normal, but I think he definitely knew there was a secret, at the very least because his family members would have pointed it out to him. I just think he didn't push the subject for reasons I find understandable, mainly respecting her privacy because he thought her reluctance to talk came from a place of trauma. I also think there is a certain personality type (and maybe a lot of people with Asperger's fall into this category) where you are overly rational and logical about everything and can come up with a boring, mundane explanation for any mystery you may encounter. These sorts of people often identify as skeptics; it doesn't come from a place of naiveté. I mean, plenty of people keep secrets and are estranged from their family and in 99.9% of those cases they never stole their identity from a dead child. Plenty of people do have things in their house they don't want their spouses going through, and 99.9% of those people are hiding something mundane that their spouse probably could have guessed at.
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I agree with what you wrote with one exception, & that's doubtlessly due to my own error in expressing myself. I didn't to say that the ST implied Blake has Asperger's, although it's likely he does. It was that the article implied he was somehow mentally deficient, which explains why he never got her to share her history with him. Asperger's enters into it only because, from the people I've encountered who have it, it could allow him to be comfortable with not asking about her past.

In a way, Blake & Lori were a good fit. She didn't want to talk about her past; as far as she was concerned her life started the moment she met Blake. Blake found a woman who would tolerate his oddness -- & was attractive to boot. I suspect neither ever expected to be married, & for it to happen to them made it all that more special for each.

I think it also may explain the conflict with his family quite a bit. They were very protective of him and used to looking out for him as growing up he was perhaps bullied and had a harder time making friends. So when they saw him with someone who was an outsider to them, someone who acted strange and who was clearly keeping secrets, they worried LEK was out to hurt or take advantage of their son. The way you relieve your suspicions of someone is by getting to know them, and I'm sure they really did try and give her plenty of opportunities, but she couldn't handle their questions and the more they asked the more withdrawn she became. I can easily see how the situation deteriorated over time, and I think it probably wasn't anyone's fault and they all probably had good intentions.

I think LEK was just not mentally in a place where she could handle being questioned and simply thinking about her past only made her more upset. If she were a criminal and a pathological liar like a lot of the people who get discussed on this site I actually think she would have handled the situation much better. A good liar can fool people in ways LEK could not.
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I've pointed out many things about this case that make it hard to understand LEK & her motivations. (For example I'd really like to know who took the initiative in that first meeting, Blake or LEK? I can envision each of them taking the first step, & I can envision neither of them taking that first step.) One is that we only get an impression of LEK of her last years, long after whatever led her to obliterate her birth name had happened, after years of living with the consequences. Was she always so private about her past? Did she always have this much trouble being close to people? Was she always so aloof? Because I have a sense that the step that ended with her downfall & suicide was a life-long character flaw: when LEK felt threatened, she couldn't help but getting critical & vicious. This may be the reason her career was limited to entry-level jobs.

I think the ST article got this detail right: by compulsively criticizing Blake's family, she drove him away. In a brief moment, she destroyed one of the major accomplishments of her life. I suspect she knew she had done this; I suspect she knew she had harmed herself by doing this many times before in her life; & I suspect that she realized she could not escape herself. That is why she lost the will to live.

Although the Ruffs were frightened of her, she was probably more scared of them than they her. They had much she never enjoyed: friends, a family, a history, a home. Her stalking of them was probably more like a poor child staring thru store windows at things she would never own, but her lack of social skills made her harmless actions creepy & threatening. When she received the divorce papers 20 December 2010, she found her last achievement -- giving life to a child -- taken from her. (So where was the daughter the last days of LEK's life -- with her, or with Blake?) She killed herself in her in-law's driveway, so to say to them "You made me do this!"

I could say more, but none of it is relevant to this. Without more evidence, I'm not sure I'm getting into her head, or just creating a character in a work of fiction.
 
Do you not just love those nights when you are tired and ready for bed, then something hits you like a lightening bolt?
So for me this just happened. I have not even been on the LEK threads today, instead I have been on Sand Canyon Doe's thread. But anyway... Maybe it is because were so close to the anniversary of her suicide she came to mind.

It hit me that I really think that LEK was escaping a fundi background (for tonight anyway), I believe this now more than ever. Remember how she liked tea time? Many of the fundi people have mother daughter teas. Teatime may have stuck with her as an enjoyable time in a miserable non existent fundi life therefore something she clung to while trying to escape the rest, the rest that she wanted to put behind her.

Was she somehow tainted and told she was no good?
Did she want to escape so she would not have to live as a sex slave and human incubator?

I know there have been mentions and ideas about being a part of a movement similar in nature to the quiverfull movement so I don't think quiverfull would be too much of a stretch to consider either.

Do the fundi's outcast their own like Amish or some of the other cult like groups we know about?

Did she refuse to marry a dirty old man or to be in an arranged marriage?

Part of me really wants to think she may have been married before, I also want to believe she had given birth before.

Are all fundi births recorded and registered with the state in which a child is born into?
(The lost boys come to mind, but I know not enough about them to know how they obtain legal documents like birth certificates etc so I am not so sure about the records she may or may not have)

In the first pictures that are known to be her, ie: the drivers license photo, she wears a Cheshire cat grin. Its almost like being a kid excited over something big like Christmas. The photo has always seemed eerie to me like she was so excited about something. Perhaps that something was getting this ID and being able to start a new life, one she could control, not others controlling her life.

But as you look into the few other photo's there are in the years after it is as if time really took its toll on her.

Mentally ill? I think perhaps not, not in the sense that we see mental illness most of the time, but more maybe in the sense that someone who has PTSD would be mentally ill.
(I have PTSD so I know a little about where I am coming from here.)

Not all forms of PTSD stem form war, or rape, or witness to violent crimes. (I had to learn this. When first diagnosed I thought the shrink was wrong and really questioned my DX, as I was along the thoughts of many in this world that thought that PTSD was for people who had been to war or had been raped, boy was I wrong)

By suggesting she could very well have had PTSD could very well contribute to her secrecy with her lock box and her cryptic notes. If she was not in treatment she may not have the kinds of skills she would need to really process things and over time those things really ate at her mind and wore her down making her appear to be mentally ill of a different caliber.

Sorry for the random thoughts. These things just hit me and you know how it is, sometimes you just need to put them out there.
 
honesty said:
Do you not just love those nights when you are tired and ready for bed, then something hits you like a lightening bolt?
So for me this just happened. I have not even been on the LEK threads today, instead I have been on Sand Canyon Doe's thread. But anyway... Maybe it is because were so close to the anniversary of her suicide she came to mind.

It hit me that I really think that LEK was escaping a fundi background (for tonight anyway), I believe this now more than ever. Remember how she liked tea time? Many of the fundi people have mother daughter teas. Teatime may have stuck with her as an enjoyable time in a miserable non existent fundi life therefore something she clung to while trying to escape the rest, the rest that she wanted to put behind her.

Was she somehow tainted and told she was no good?
Did she want to escape so she would not have to live as a sex slave and human incubator?

I know there have been mentions and ideas about being a part of a movement similar in nature to the quiverfull movement so I don't think quiverfull would be too much of a stretch to consider either.

Do the fundi's outcast their own like Amish or some of the other cult like groups we know about?

Did she refuse to marry a dirty old man or to be in an arranged marriage?

Part of me really wants to think she may have been married before, I also want to believe she had given birth before.

Are all fundi births recorded and registered with the state in which a child is born into?
(The lost boys come to mind, but I know not enough about them to know how they obtain legal documents like birth certificates etc so I am not so sure about the records she may or may not have)

In the first pictures that are known to be her, ie: the drivers license photo, she wears a Cheshire cat grin. Its almost like being a kid excited over something big like Christmas. The photo has always seemed eerie to me like she was so excited about something. Perhaps that something was getting this ID and being able to start a new life, one she could control, not others controlling her life.

But as you look into the few other photo's there are in the years after it is as if time really took its toll on her.

Mentally ill? I think perhaps not, not in the sense that we see mental illness most of the time, but more maybe in the sense that someone who has PTSD would be mentally ill.
(I have PTSD so I know a little about where I am coming from here.)

Not all forms of PTSD stem form war, or rape, or witness to violent crimes. (I had to learn this. When first diagnosed I thought the shrink was wrong and really questioned my DX, as I was along the thoughts of many in this world that thought that PTSD was for people who had been to war or had been raped, boy was I wrong)

By suggesting she could very well have had PTSD could very well contribute to her secrecy with her lock box and her cryptic notes. If she was not in treatment she may not have the kinds of skills she would need to really process things and over time those things really ate at her mind and wore her down making her appear to be mentally ill of a different caliber.

Sorry for the random thoughts. These things just hit me and you know how it is, sometimes you just need to put them out there.
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I posted awhile back that I thought she was from a FLDS sect or something similar. The people who lived at the address she used on her Idaho driver’s license said they didn’t know who she was BUT they did take in runaways over the years, perhaps they just didn’t recognize her with all the time that has passed or perhaps they were afraid of getting in trouble for housing a runaway. She had to have come up with that address somehow. I have often thought she had a child before that was taken from her, this would explain why she was so protective of her daughter to the point of not letting her in-laws hold her. To me this indicates more than just motherly protectiveness. I agree that she could’ve had severe PTSD.
 
dvo said:
Adding to the above - after reading the posts in this thread I find the most compelling possible connection to LEK to be the suggestion that the deceased Minnesota John Doe could be this wanted criminal, Paul Joseph Harmon, who was known to use the aliases Paul Joseph Kennedy and Paul Kennedy. He was also connected to Washington, California and Nevada like LEK, evidently during the same time period, and one of his known occupations is "marketing consultant".

from https://www2.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/murders/harmon_pj.htm
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And Harmon/kennedy was also connected to Inglewood, California.

I can't paste for some reason. See openjurist.org and Justia.com and search the Harman name and read the facts of the case.
 
So, A thread popped up on WS today that I read through. The case is intriguing, but what caught my attention was the murder victim's height. She was six foot tall. The thread is on Camilla Lyman. So, I started looking at her two sisters because the height immediately caught my attention. I found one sister deceased. What caught my attention on find a grave is that the name Perkins appeared as part of her name. She lived in California. She also may have had a daughter about FLEK's age (still looking at that angle). Haven't checked the other sister out yet. Probably just coincidence, but still looking.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-12-30/news/ls-14698_1_cam-lyman


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=152413486
 
has anyone ran all these names , Jennifer Perkins etc thru the morman website the family search their database is just as good as ancestry .....I am blocked here however its familysearch.org
if anyone can come up w anything ?
 
Ok, I've spent half the day down a rabbit hole I stumbled into. Forgive me if this has been brought up before. I did a search but didn't see anything.
1. I started with the idea that maybe FLEK's dad really was a failed stockbroker of some sort, and that she really was from Arizona, and that her parents really were dead.
2. That led me to an article about a couple in California (originally from AZ) who killed themselves after the husband was being investigated for securities fraud.
3. The joint suicide happened in 1986. The husband was born in Idaho. The wife was born in Texas.
4. The couple had a daughter, who was referenced in the article and said her parents had been in poor health. Police refused to name her.
5. I cannot find anything on the daughter. Not a thing.
6. Here is the article. Mods, please remove is this is not OK to post.
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-05/local/me-1475_1_oil-leases
 
trixandhoney said:
Ok, I've spent half the day down a rabbit hole I stumbled into. Forgive me if this has been brought up before. I did a search but didn't see anything.
1. I started with the idea that maybe FLEK's dad really was a failed stockbroker of some sort, and that she really was from Arizona, and that her parents really were dead.
2. That led me to an article about a couple in California (originally from AZ) who killed themselves after the husband was being investigated for securities fraud.
3. The joint suicide happened in 1986. The husband was born in Idaho. The wife was born in Texas.
4. The couple had a daughter, who was referenced in the article and said her parents had been in poor health. Police refused to name her.
5. I cannot find anything on the daughter. Not a thing.
6. Here is the article. Mods, please remove is this is not OK to post.
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-05/local/me-1475_1_oil-leases
Click to expand...

did you try the familysearch.org that should name the daughter ??
 
trixandhoney said:
Ok, I've spent half the day down a rabbit hole I stumbled into. Forgive me if this has been brought up before. I did a search but didn't see anything.
1. I started with the idea that maybe FLEK's dad really was a failed stockbroker of some sort, and that she really was from Arizona, and that her parents really were dead.
2. That led me to an article about a couple in California (originally from AZ) who killed themselves after the husband was being investigated for securities fraud.
3. The joint suicide happened in 1986. The husband was born in Idaho. The wife was born in Texas.
4. The couple had a daughter, who was referenced in the article and said her parents had been in poor health. Police refused to name her.
5. I cannot find anything on the daughter. Not a thing.
6. Here is the article. Mods, please remove is this is not OK to post.
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-05/local/me-1475_1_oil-leases
Click to expand...

just starting to dig on this truly awesome find and it's interesting that the mother traveled to Germany @ age 9, since LEK's passport application cites Germany as her destination.
 
dvo said:
just starting to dig on this truly awesome find and it's interesting that the mother traveled to Germany @ age 9, since LEK's passport application cites Germany as her destination.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much about that coincidence. If you say you're going to visit Europe, Germany is one of the countries there you'd mention off the top of your head.

On the other hand if it turns out that, say, the late Ben Perkins Jr. handled a bankruptcy case that involved this family -- say for someone who lost money in their scheme, or maybe even handled wrapping up the estate -- now that would get me excited. (I figure LEK wrote down his name to ask some questions which either he refused to answer -- or were so trivial he didn't remember them 20+ years later.)
 
trixandhoney said:
Ok, I've spent half the day down a rabbit hole I stumbled into. Forgive me if this has been brought up before. I did a search but didn't see anything.
1. I started with the idea that maybe FLEK's dad really was a failed stockbroker of some sort, and that she really was from Arizona, and that her parents really were dead.
2. That led me to an article about a couple in California (originally from AZ) who killed themselves after the husband was being investigated for securities fraud.
3. The joint suicide happened in 1986. The husband was born in Idaho. The wife was born in Texas.
4. The couple had a daughter, who was referenced in the article and said her parents had been in poor health. Police refused to name her.
5. I cannot find anything on the daughter. Not a thing.
6. Here is the article. Mods, please remove is this is not OK to post.
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-05/local/me-1475_1_oil-leases
Click to expand...


I spent a few minutes looking, but was only able to locate a child (daughter) who is the offspring of EMP* and a previous husband (initials DNV).

*DNV - is/was a disbarred attorney
 
Ugh it's driving me crazy. Such a coincidence if there's no connection. There's an considerable history of fraud and bankruptcy involving the family referenced in the article.
 
HerStory said:
There were, however, other figures in the court charges.
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-10/business/fi-6895_1_telephone-boiler-room
Click to expand...

That's an angle that has a number of problems -- & potential motivations.

The problem is that I have a hard time thinking anyone involved in a boiler-room sales operation would have the time -- let alone the ability -- to marry & raise a family. Most of these guys are single for that reason. But I'm probably being naive, & within 15 minutes of my posting someone will provide numerous examples of this actually happening.

Say you're the estranged child of a guy who works in a boiler-room sales organization, pushing fraudulent oil leases. (Or sketchy equity-related investments. Or even toner cartridges for printers at inflated prices.) To do that kind of work one has to be a sociopath, & not just at the workplace; Dad's relationship to his offspring is going to be complicated, to oversimplify it. And Dad eventually gets caught, indicted, convicted, & sent away leaving the rest of the family to suffer the consequences.

Now if I were in this situation, changing my name & moving to another city would be a very attractive option. And I'd explain this later as saying my father was "a failed stockbroker", rather than "a sleazebag con man", & likely get very hostile & angry if people insisted on learning the details. Hostile & angry because it's a part of my life that I really wouldn't want to deal with, & which likely caused enough trauma to lead to PTSD even if no one died.
 
I just stumbled upon something wacky. Please google " loris13dragonfly" I'm kinda dumbfounded. This was a find from searching around the name of the woman who messaged me about knowing Lori in the late 80s-90s.. Pm me when you see what I am talking about!


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