TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[iteach3rdgrade]

Do identify brokers typically create such intertwined names and places that seem to be connected, but a connection can't be found easily like in FLEK?

 

[newfiedee]

Nothing surprising about that when Johnson is as common of a last name as Smith (IMO)

ETA: I studied the McCandless family tree. His mother does not really look like FLEK, IMO.

sorry should have said coincidental..im aware of the commonality of the Jones Surname, i just thought people would connect what i was saying...

 

[Gardener1850]

Do identify brokers typically create such intertwined names and places that seem to be connected, but a connection can't be found easily like in FLEK?

One of the "tips" given in the books on how to change your identity says to choose a name that is common. So she could have used an identity broker who knew this or she just read the book. Or it was common sense/common knowledge that a common last name would be hard to track. It's hard to tell how she knew what to do. Anything is possible at this point, IMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

sorry should have said coincidental..im aware of the commonality of the Jones Surname, i just thought people would connect what i was saying...

No problem, I just didn't think it was surprising. If they had a really unusual surname in common I would go back and look into it a bit more.

 

[msrica972]

Hello...I don't post much but have brought this theory up before. Is it possible that Lori really is BST? Have we ever seen a pic of young BST? I always thought it was weird that she was buried the following day after the fire, but understand some cultures and religions do this. This would explain how she knew the dob and parent names of Becky. I know the Turners have denied this but still think it's a possibility she really didn't die in that fire. Maybe an insurance scheme or so... My own opinion.

 

[newfiedee]

No problem, I just didn't think it was surprising. If they had a really unusual surname in common I would go back and look into it a bit more.

As they say" leave no stone unturned"

 

[Gardener1850]

Hello...I don't post much but have brought this theory up before. Is it possible that Lori really is BST? Have we ever seen a pic of young BST? I always thought it was weird that she was buried the following day after the fire, but understand some cultures and religions do this. This would explain how she knew the dob and parent names of Becky. I know the Turners have denied this but still think it's a possibility she really didn't die in that fire. Maybe an insurance scheme or so... My own opinion.

People in the Fife community remember the fire and remember attending the funeral. She was not incinerated by the fire, the COD was smoke inhalation. So they could have had an open casket/viewing. How would the parents be able to fake their daughter's death? It would have taken too many accomplices to pull that off, IMO.

ETA: Also it is not true that she was buried the next day. The fire was Dec 29. She was buried Dec 31st according to the death record. The Dec 30 stamp indicates the day she was released from the coroner to the funeral home.

 

[Gardener1850]

Also note the time of death on 12/29 was 2 AM. This means the fire actually started on the night of Dec 28th. The coroner had all day Wednesday to examine the body and the parents had two full days to recover before the funeral on Friday Dec 31st. It's fast but nothing suspicious, IMO. They didn't need to hold the bodies for a criminal investigation or anything like that.

 

[Hank36]

Maybe she did and they have just not been found or come forward ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or these people were never sought out by investigators or Seattle Times reporters because of their professed disinterest in talking to anybody who knew her after 1988.

 

[Hank36]

I'm really surprised to see so many posts about an identity broker or help from an organization. I thought the overall sentiment of the forum was that she read that book and used that to change her identity. I really don't think she had the gall to pull this off on her own.

I still say that she could have done all of this on her own. Back in the 1980's, birthdates, problems of identity theft, even social security numbers were not considered to be personal data that needed to be carefully guarded. Also--has anybody ever been prosecuted (or even outed) for operating as an "identity broker" back in the 1980's? Because, frankly, I'm not sure what law such an individual may have broken outside of conspiracy to commit fraud or some similarly wobbly charge. In 1984, Farrell's Ice Cream Parlor Restaraunt, a national chain which specialized in birthday parties for children, was famously outed for selling a list of something like 100,000 names, addresses, and birthdays of children to the Selective Service. It was embarassing for both the restaraunt and the agency, but not illegal.

I've also tried to see if the "60 Minutes" story on identity theft from the 1980's is anyplace online, but I have not yet found it. If it was broadcast prior to 1988, it could certainly have helped this woman as well.

 

[bears10]

I still say that she could have done all of this on her own. Back in the 1980's, birthdates, problems of identity theft, even social security numbers were not considered to be personal data that needed to be carefully guarded. Also--has anybody ever been prosecuted (or even outed) for operating as an "identity broker" back in the 1980's? Because, frankly, I'm not sure what law such an individual may have broken outside of conspiracy to commit fraud or some similarly wobbly charge. In 1984, Farrell's Ice Cream Parlor Restaraunt, a national chain which specialized in birthday parties for children, was famously outed for selling a list of something like 100,000 names, addresses, and birthdays of children to the Selective Service. It was embarassing for both the restaraunt and the agency, but not illegal.

I've also tried to see if the "60 Minutes" story on identity theft from the 1980's is anyplace online, but I have not yet found it. If it was broadcast prior to 1988, it could certainly have helped this woman as well.

It's not that it couldn't be done. But the particular identity she stole could not have been more convenient (see previous posts about misspellings and incorrect info listed on official documents). The odds of LEK picking such a convenient identity seem really slim IMO. And I don't think she used an identity broker, I think she was guided by an organization. JMO

 

[Hank36]

It's not that it couldn't be done. But the particular identity she stole could not have been more convenient (see previous posts about misspellings and incorrect info listed on official documents). The odds of LEK picking such a convenient identity seem really slim IMO. And I don't think she used an identity broker, I think she was guided by an organization. JMO

The odds of her picking such a convenient identity, or the odds of her finding such a convenient identity? I think that she picked that identity because it was convenient, and I think she found a convenient identity because she invested what effort was necessary into finding such an identity.

 

[SavetheQueen]

Thanks for clarifying. The 402 months thing is really bugging me, who measures time like that and what else could it mean??

The Federal Sentencing Guidelines. To me, it's a federal prison sentence. Who in the North Hollywood PD jurisdiction received a federal prison sentence for 33.5 years? *thinking figuratively* That's a hefty sentence for the feds.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[SavetheQueen]

I don't think there is enough evidence or facts to support either theory. so nothing is written in stone ....in my opinion.... anything is possible.
One thing I've looked at is the two papers of BST birth papers, one is from the birth book., which she may have got a copy of from microfilm at a local library, the other she may have acquired by using that info. Sounds plausible .I don't know how the libraries work in the U.S. Did they just hold local birth, regional , provincial or national in1980's?.. I know mine held provincial years ago.The article below tells about Birth Cerificate and explains U.S process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_certificate


My theory she or someone else went to the local library and got a copy from the birthbook ..also note the paper has the look of being photo copied .which if the record were only kept locally she or whoever would have obtain this in the bakerfield area.

I'm split. I know of 2 people from the late 70s/early 80s who went to obscure cemeteries and found the graves of dead children, researched their respective deaths, obtained birth certificates, IDs, etc, and went about their lives with no help from anyone, and never looking back. Where they are now, who knows. That's kind of the point. I myself have reinvented myself gradually more than once. Legally, however. I think that's one reason this case is so interesting to me.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified. *

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I was just looking at the notes page again and noticed the "These Eyes" bit seems to be in different handwriting to the rest of it. I know it's been discussed before, but was there ever a conclusion as to whether Lori wrote that bit, or the rest of it?

 

[Gardener1850]

I was just looking at the notes page again and noticed the "These Eyes" bit seems to be in different handwriting to the rest of it. I know it's been discussed before, but was there ever a conclusion as to whether Lori wrote that bit, or the rest of it?

Have you seen my handwriting comparison on the notes page thread? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?215620-The-Note-Page/page15

IMO, she ONLY wrote the These Eyes part. Others have disagreed.

 

[FrankieB]

Re: Shredded documents: I would also like to know if any effort at all was made to re-construct these documents. It kind of reminds me of Karin Waldergrave's facebook ramblings, buried between all the incoherence there was always a personal and true tid bit. I assume this would be the case with Lori's scribblings and suicide notes. Even if it was all "the ramblings of a disturbed person" they must have contained some elements of truth. Some hints, some tiny clues. The experts here have analyzed every possible angle to the single scribblings piece of paper we have been allowed to see. Imagine what could be done looking at the rest.

Re: Interest in the case: a few weeks ago I stumbled upon an article of top ten mysteries or something like that and in the comments section somebody unleashed a plethora of names concerning unsolved mysteries. I looked each and every one up and Lori was the one that completely captured me and didn't let me go. She has populated my mind every day since. First I read all the 5 threads completely and then I began posting. I hope the resident experts do not find my re-hashing obnoxious

It's hard to go into detail about this topic IRL. Most people I've shared the story with have basically just told me she was batcrap so this is the only place where my needs to discuss Lori are properly catered!

And I'm beginning to agree that she was being saved from something. Her BST picture has the look of "I'm free!".

Totally, that happiness is hard to fake, she was clearly bursting with joy in that picture.

And I very much believe that the Ruffs know more about her than they have revealed. Blake especially. How are you married to someone and know absolutely zero about their past? Even if she didn't reveal specifics, she had to have revealed generalizations. Even most strangers who are intimate exchange random pillow talk about how much they enjoy going to certain places or they have visited certain sites, etc. He knew she enjoyed watching basketball games. What else? Surely there was more. And then there's the Cuban food. That's an odd one. If she had liked Mexican, one wouldn't wonder. This is Texas. There's a taco place on every corner. But Cuban? That's a clue. Someone tell us more.

Yes yes and yes. You can't be married for 6 years to somebody and not figure out absolutely anything about that person. I'm convinced he knows a lot of things. I was very surprised this week to learn he had called the police on account of Lori's harrassment in their own home, it has had my head spinning ever since: was it an arguement about Lori's incessant complaining about the Ruffs? an issue over the baby? an issue about her past? whatever it was, it got physical. Blake does not strike me as the kind of man who would hit a woman during an arguement, he was probably defending himself from her. It kind of depicts Lori as somebody who could actually become aggressive over an arguement. I had an arguement with my ex in which she tried to slap me and push me and I simply walked away from the situation completely. I would only call the police if they were actually threatening my life in some manner. I can picture a 5'10" woman charging against me and it's a scary image.

The tea might not lead anywhere but I think the Cuban food does stand out. For starters why is a Vegetarian eating a mostly pork-based cuisine? Where did she pick a taste for this food? where would she consume it?

As you've said, generalizations can be picked up easly even with a tight-mouthed individual. I pick this piece of information out: It was reported Lori would walk the perimeter of the house in the evenings without making eye contact with the neighbours. "Would" and "in the evenings" denotes habit
Blake might not have been the most observant of men but I think if your spouse is doing something like this you would ask her "umm, darling why do you do that in the evenings?" I would like to know if he ever asked her this and what her reply to him was. Option 1: Nobody ever asked Blake about this. 2: Somebody asked him and the reply was irrelevant 3. It was something she did once and people reported it as habit.

Who are you, Lori???

I ask myself the same thing. If you had asked me a few weeks ago: "What case would you like to see solved during your lifetime?" I would have answered immediately and without hesitation: Jonbenét Ramsey.

Now? I'm torn...I want to figure this case out so bad.

She is tall, has long hands, fertility problems, breast implants -- what if she had some sort of mixed chromosomes?

Yes, I keep going back to those hands. People tell me tall people have long fingers. I know, I am a tall person, but my fingers look nothing like hers. Somebody here also noted they appeared to be somewhat "clubbed"

During her life, probably few (or none) laid awake at night thinking about her -- now a bunch of us do....

Indeed, life is deeply ironical. When she changed her identity it appears nobody, absolutely nobody on the face of this planet went looking for her. And now, she has us tearing to pieces every bread crumb about her story!

I was just looking at the notes page again and noticed the "These Eyes" bit seems to be in different handwriting to the rest of it. I know it's been discussed before, but was there ever a conclusion as to whether Lori wrote that bit, or the rest of it?

I would also like to know what people make of this. I have read here opposing theories: Lori wrote "These Eyes" and the rest of the note was written by somebody else, or iverted, Lori wrote everything except Eyes. Somebody also suggested it was written by somebody in a hurry over the phone, just catching general details. Notice the incorrectly written "Holloyod"

I would also like to ask about the following topic: the apparent "sex chat" website she joined and visited for mere 5 minutes only once. She entered a name there which could have been somebody she was looking for. Allegedly she also sent a message while being there and that was her only activity. Is there any way at all that message could be revealed by the website or it would break their privacy terms? Did she know it was a sex chat she was registering at or it was a mistake?

Thanks for reading this novel!!

 

[mrseeker]

I was just looking at the notes page again and noticed the "These Eyes" bit seems to be in different handwriting to the rest of it. I know it's been discussed before, but was there ever a conclusion as to whether Lori wrote that bit, or the rest of it?

I think it was on the closed thread from a few weeks ago, but Gardener did an excellent job showing exactly that. only these eyes were consistent with known FLEK writings. I almost think most of those scribbles except for these eyes were written by a man.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think it was on the closed thread from a few weeks ago, but Gardener did an excellent job showing exactly that. only these eyes were consistent with known FLEK writings. I almost think most of those scribbles except for these eyes were written by a man.

I found the post and I agree, I think Lori wrote the These Eyes bit and someone else wrote the rest. Do we know why just that one sheet of scribbles was released when there were apparently loads more lying around?

 

[llywrch]

A lot of these documents should be available via online through PACER, or just through ordering them through the applicable agency if they're now public record. This week, I will look and see what I can personally get my hands on. Being a new person here, I'm not sure exactly what it is that I need to go after. Some direction or a listing would be great.

I shared what PACER will provide on LEK's bankruptcy back in April of this year. The details were summarized in post #293 in the "General Discussion & Theories# 3" thread.

I wonder if that post should be moved to the "Timeline and Media Thread" -- or we should set up a similar thread for summaries of various data dumps (such as the bankruptcy summary, KdB's memories of meeting LEK, etc.) for convenient access. (It took a bit of searching for me to find that post -- & I knew it existed. What about newcomers who didn't know that the information existed, failed to find it, & end up repeating this work. I suspect that's what I actually did in researching her bankruptcy.)