Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #3

[LayzeeDayzee]

I think was able to draw a pension all along. However, he stood to face significant penalties if he didn't ​begin withdrawing from his DROP account by 70 1/2.

Okay, I'm here in Canada and am not familiar with this DROP acct business.

 

[crhedBngr]

ALL of this makes me choke up. Every time I get on here... Answering what I can... it's so surreal still. This is my Papaw. And I'm answering things like this? I wish it was all a dream. A nightmare.

Huge Cyber {{{{{HUG}}}}} to you.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

This confuses me. If i understand correctly (maybe I am completely wrong?), I thought that MC had retired from DFD at age 55 (15 yrs ago). If he was only eligible to begin drawing a pension at age 70, did he have another job or source of income all of these past 15 yrs? Surely BC's income as a nurse wouldn't have been enough to support them given her need to very quickly liquidate assets (Mustang, his truck) and get the death certificate.

With regard to DROP:
"When you leave Active Service, you are entitled to your monthly pension benefit and the amount accumulated in your DROP account. You are not required to take funds from your DROP account until age 70½. (See “Mandatory Distribution” on page 71.)"

"Whether or not you participated in DROP as an active Member, you may enroll in DROP and defer receipt of your pension benefit payments into DROP any time before you reach age 70½. The amount deferred into your DROP account accrues tax-deferred with interest. You may go into payment status when you choose to. However, you can no longer defer into your DROP account after the year you attain age 70½, and must begin taking funds out of the account according to federal law and the Board DROP Policy."

"Federal law requires that you must begin to receive pension payments directly, including distribution from the DROP account, in the year in which you attain age 70½ or leave Active Service, whichever is later. This is called your 'required minimum distribution.' In addition, the Board’s DROP policy requires DROP Pensioners and Spouse Beneficiaries to withdraw all funds from DROP in annual distributions over a prescribed period. The Required Annual Distribution (RAD) generally must begin in the year the DROP Pensioner or Spouse Beneficiary attains age 70½."
https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/Handbook/Member_HB_Members_before_3-1-11-Updated-06-2015-c-web.pdf

With regard to traditional pension (non-DROP):
"A Member’s retirement pension may not begin later than April 1 of the year after the later of the year in which the Member leaves Active Service or the year in which the Member attains age 70½ and shall at all times comply with the requirements of Section 401(a)(9) of the Code."
https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/Plan/DPFP Plan Document_09082016.pdf

I think it is pretty clear from what Pmerle00 has shared with us PaPaw had been withdrawing from his DROP account. But I am not as sure about the traditional pension portion of his retirement plan. If he was already drawing his traditional/non-DROP pension at the time of his disappearance, his monthly benefit payments would have continued without interruption, so why have him declared deceased (OK, maybe he had been having paper checks mailed, rather than having payments direct-deposited, and BC couldn't cash them ...)?

 

[KeepTheLightOn]

With regard to DROP:
"When you leave Active Service, you are entitled to your monthly pension benefit and the amount accumulated in your DROP account. You are not required to take funds from your DROP account until age 70½. (See “Mandatory Distribution” on page 71.)"

"Whether or not you participated in DROP as an active Member, you may enroll in DROP and defer receipt of your pension benefit payments into DROP any time before you reach age 70½. The amount deferred into your DROP account accrues tax-deferred with interest. You may go into payment status when you choose to. However, you can no longer defer into your DROP account after the year you attain age 70½, and must begin taking funds out of the account according to federal law and the Board DROP Policy."

"Federal law requires that you must begin to receive pension payments directly, including distribution from the DROP account, in the year in which you attain age 70½ or leave Active Service, whichever is later. This is called your 'required minimum distribution.' In addition, the Board’s DROP policy requires DROP Pensioners and Spouse Beneficiaries to withdraw all funds from DROP in annual distributions over a prescribed period. The Required Annual Distribution (RAD) generally must begin in the year the DROP Pensioner or Spouse Beneficiary attains age 70½."
https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/Handbook/Member_HB_Members_before_3-1-11-Updated-06-2015-c-web.pdf

With regard to traditional pension (non-DROP):
"A Member’s retirement pension may not begin later than April 1 of the year after the later of the year in which the Member leaves Active Service or the year in which the Member attains age 70½ and shall at all times comply with the requirements of Section 401(a)(9) of the Code."
https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/Plan/DPFP Plan Document_09082016.pdf

I think it is pretty clear from what Pmerle00 has shared with us PaPaw had been withdrawing from his DROP account. But I am not as sure about the traditional pension portion of his retirement plan. If he was already drawing his traditional/non-DROP pension at the time of his disappearance, his monthly benefit payments would have continued without interruption, so why have him declared deceased (OK, maybe he had been having paper checks mailed, rather than having payments direct-deposited, and BC couldn't cash them ...)?

Wouldn't he also be collecting Social Security? I would think that BC is old enough to receive his benefits if he is deceased. Correction: She may have to be 62 to receive them. I just remembered that she may only be 60. I will research this.

 

[darring21]

Wouldn't he also be collecting Social Security? I would think that BC is old enough to receive his benefits if he is deceased. Correction: She may have to be 62 to receive them. I just remembered that she may only be 60. I will research this.

Some municipal employees are not in the social security system.

 

[Midge Montana]

Some municipal employees are not in the social security system.

That's something I didn't know, so thanks for pointing that out. I did find a page that explains this, in general. I am not sure if it did or didn't apply to Mr. Chambers.
https://www.ssa.gov/slge/pol_fire.htm

 

[rpgman]

From Thread #2:

Pmerle, can you describe how the dowel rod was located? Was in by the drops of blood on the floor like it rolled into the blood or on a shelf etc? I wasn't present when the dowel rod was found and was only given a second-hand description of it. My understanding is that it was leaning against one of the cars in the shop, the one closest to the pool of blood.

OK I must have missed this...I know there was some blood in the workshop, I thought they were DROPLETS, but Pmerle are you saying there was a POOL of blood? If so, how big was this POOL?

 

[KeepTheLightOn]

That's something I didn't know, so thanks for pointing that out. I did find a page that explains this, in general. I am not sure if it did or didn't apply to Mr. Chambers.
https://www.ssa.gov/slge/pol_fire.htm

Thank you for finding that information. I didn't know that.

 

[knowthings]

OK I must have missed this...I know there was some blood in the workshop, I thought they were DROPLETS, but Pmerle are you saying there was a POOL of blood? If so, how big was this POOL?

I believe it was a small pool made up of the "little smaller than a quarter" droplets.

 

[perfectingpink]

Were pictures taken of the blood that was found?

 

[Pmerle00]

Exactly! Her main reasoning in the things she has done were for financial help. Guess his pension wasn't enough to keep his truck, the last piece of evidence associated to the day he left. I'm sure t wasn't dusted or checked for anything and now it's gone like the mustang. How sad


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HCSO did process the truck before it was sold - back at the beginning. Not sure if that means they dusted, but I know they inventoried everything in it at least.

 

[Pmerle00]

RBBM

Please know that I do not question your credibility or intentions at all, Pmerle00.

I found a document on DPFPS' website that I suspect is the letter in question:
"Deferred Retirement Option Plan (DROP) Distribution Election Form"
https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/Forms/DROP Distribution Election Form 2017.pdf

Previously, you posted:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ounty-10-March-2017-2&p=13526202#post13526202

Yet so far, I have not been able to find anything indicating that if they did not respond, the DROP payments would go from monthly to semi-annual. In fact, the form above (again, I am not 100% sure if the document is exactly the same one as the one PaPaw and BC received) states,
"Deadlines for Minimum Annual Distributions request are as follows:
>2017 monthly distributions – End of month prior to month of initial distribution
>2017 semi-annual distributions – February 28, 2017"

Also, another document I found on the DPFPS site says:
"Requests for the semi-annual payment are no longer being accepted as the deadline was February 28,
2017."
https://www.dpfp.org/images/PDFs/2017 Plan Changes/FAQs RetireesBenAPs ever in DROP final.pdf

So if PaPaw or BC had not submitted their distribution request at the time of PaPaw's disappearance, then the "monthly vs. semi-annual" portion of the discussion is moot, IMO.

However, the potential issue I see with the form not having been returned before PaPaw's disappearance is at least with DROP, payments would have stopped completely beginning at the end of March.

Also, if PaPaw hadn't started drawing his pension -as I understand, he was to turn 70½ at the end of May -, then that might have created an additional financial issue.

Everyone is different, and I also do not know BC personally. Even then, I am both astonished and heartbroken by the fact that the probate of the will was initiated a mere 40 calendar days (Apr. 20th) after PaPaw's disappearance, as well as the fact that the case was disposed in less than two months (June 7th). But then maybe I am just overly sentimental.

This has all started to bother me as well, so I am looking into whether I can dig up more information. Hopefully I can get a copy of anything that was returned. I am starting to be uneasy about what I have been told in some instances, so am being more diligent in getting "proof" instead of just assuming I'm being told things truthfully. I WILL continue to answer things on here as I am TOLD them, but will correct myself as needed.

Papaw has been drawing pension and DROP regularly. He also regularly works with my uncle (his SIL) doing flooring jobs (concrete staining), which provides additional income.

 

[Pmerle00]

RBBM

I must be missing something, especially since I don't know anything about classic cars.

So there was more than one car being stored in PaPaw's shop. Maybe one was the Mustang. Perhaps another belonged to someone else, who had dropped it off, so that PaPaw could repair something for them.

So in addition to his truck and BC's vehicle (for everyday driving), how many cars did they own prior to PaPaw's disappearance?

I know different people do things differently, and I truly don't care what people do with their own money.

And this is purely my personal opinion: For myself, I cannot imagine making two car payments while owning multiple classic cars at the same time. I know many new car dealers offer interest-free car loans. Still, this just doesn't make much sense to me - especially for a couple in their 60s and 70s. Maybe PaPaw and BC saw the cars as investments, but if I were their age especially, I think I would prefer liquid assets, including cash in checking and savings accounts.

When I was married, I would buy myself a nice -somewhat pricey, at $100 to $125 ... ouch!- pair of running shoes every couple of years, and keep them in a locker at the Y (rather than at home), so that my ex-husband wouldn't find out ... . Was there something like that going on between PaPaw and BC, perhaps?

Papaw had a truck (now sold, I guess) with a payment. Becca has a car, which I believe has a payment.

Classic cars are NOT every day drivers, in most instances! They are Papaw's hobby.

 

[Pmerle00]

Hi Pmerle00,

I was going through your posts the other night and came across this one:


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ounty-10-March-2017-1&p=13306541#post13306541

RBBM

The post is from April 12th. Is there any additional info about this that you can share at this time?

I said this was not likely the exit because of the blood trail leading to the man door instead of the garage doors.

 

[Pmerle00]

It's so dang sad. Especially when it was said that money would never be an issue, and that she had him declared so that she could keep money coming in to pay the bills. I suppose the home will be next. So sad. If Papaw did come back, I imagine he'd feel as he was just wiped away. I guess the wife must know for sure, somehow, that he really isn't coming home. And that breaks my heart for the rest of his wonderful family. Sad. Sad. Sad.

When I stated money wasn't a concern, that was before I knew about the DROP fund changes to semi-annual instead of monthly. Without that, money DID become a concern on a monthly basis immediately. Now, I am starting to question how this change was made and am looking into it more.

 

[Pmerle00]

Sure is quiet


Just my random thoughts & opinions...

I heard y'all thought I was fighting with the fam!!!! I considered posting that I was going out of town with no internet access... but didn't want to advertise that my home would be vacant... I'm in good standing with all members of our family, just so everyone knows.

I was only quiet because where bears roam and elk walk around like it's nothing, cell phones don't work - THANK GOD. It was a nice break.

 

[Pmerle00]

I know our VI is going through a lot right now, but I'm still interested in who all had keys to the shop that the family is aware of.

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As far as we know, the following had keys to the shop: Papaw, Becca, one of the sons who was over all the time. The other son MAY have a key, but we're not sure it's the right one, and since the locks have been changed we can't check to see.

 

[Pmerle00]

Maybe we need a parade for Papaw, the car club would probably be glad to help, you could release balloons etc. maybe even have a fire truck! Invite the news media and let it be known that we will never stop looking for Papaw!!


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We had a balloon release. The DFD brought the last truck Papaw was on during his service. We invited media. No stations showed.

 

[Midge Montana]

When I stated money wasn't a concern, that was before I knew about the DROP fund changes to semi-annual instead of monthly. Without that, money DID become a concern on a monthly basis immediately. Now, I am starting to question how this change was made and am looking into it more.

First of all, I want you to know how much I and others here appreciate you coming to answer our questions. I hate to have to say this, but I am glad/relieved that you and hopefully your mom and auntie are digging a little deeper into what you have been told. In my opinion, things have been presented in perhaps not a factual way to you all because the person(s) presenting these things to you never dreamed they would be looked into independently. My heart aches for your family.

 

[Pmerle00]

So, saying LE does want this to go away because of some favors that may have been given to get PaPaw declared dead - If there were favors would the family still insist that LE has dropped the ball? Or would they just go away and begin to heal? If the family knew LE 'helped' would they still push LE for more answers? I dunno. I am curious if EVERYONE in the family wants to push on LE for answers or if it is just a few (his daughters).

I cannot answer for others except those that I know have told me they have pushed HCSO, FBI and TXRangers for updates: myself, my mom, my aunt, my father, my cousins (Papaw's brother's daughters). I know Becca has been in contact with HCSO, but I left her off that list because I'm not sure if she's been in contact with FBI or TR. Outside of those, other family members (other cousins, siblings, uncles, etc.) have said they would leave it to us to continue pushing directly on LE, but even those are continually sharing on social media, begging for help - they may not be in the face of LEAs, but they are doing what they can to feel helpful. Some of those MAY be in contact with one or more agency, I may just not be aware of it.

We WILL insist on answers and action, regardless of any favors done. We need solid proof of what happened.

Some think our obsession is to the point that it is unhealthy, that we should grieve and move on. I am telling you ALL - that will never happen. I know my family. We won't be giving up - now or ever - until we have answers. Best case is Papaw is still alive and we can find him. Worst case, someone murdered him and we will not stop until we have answers and justice - no matter who did it.