Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #6

[wolvesjohnblack]

I had posted a while back that my wife was dept manager in otc med and former pharm tech at wal-mart going on twenty years I had her look at the pics of the medicine.I thought I posted but I didn't that she was sure it wasn't coricidin,She didn't really think it was anything her store carried.I showed her the prunelax which our store doesn't have.She says thats probably what it was.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Bringing this forward from the last thread:

What if...MC reappeared alive and well?
What would happen to his half of the drop then?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-5&p=14075179#post14075179

I’m afraid it doesn’t answer your question directly, but the following explains what happens with the assets of the estate, or “probate assets”:

“SUBCHAPTER B. PERSONS PRESUMED DEAD BUT SUBSEQUENTLY PROVED LIVING

Sec. 454.051. RESTORATION OF ESTATE. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a person who was proved by circumstantial evidence to be dead under Section 454.002 and who, in a subsequent action, is proved by direct evidence to have been living at any time after the date the court granted the letters under that section, is entitled to restoration of the person's estate or the residue of the person's estate, including the rents and profits from the estate.
(b) For estate property sold by the personal representative of the estate, a distributee, or a distributee's successors or assignees to a bona fide purchaser for value, the right of a person to restoration is limited to the proceeds of the sale or the residue of the sold property with any increase of the proceeds or the residue.

Added by Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 680 (H.B. 2502), Sec. 1, eff. January 1, 2014.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/ES/htm/ES.454.htm

So, it appears MC would be entitled only to what remains of his estate.

Further information on what is included in an estate and what isn’t:

The Difference between Probate and Non-Probate Assets

While a Will is important for directing the disposition of a Decedent’s assets, it does not control the disposition of all assets held by the deceased. Assets that pass by a Will are probate assets. But there are non-probate assets too. Non-probate assets are assets that disposition is not controlled by the Decedent’s Will or estate. Non-probate assets include, but are not limited to:

1) Joint accounts with rights of survivorship;

2) Assets with designated beneficiaries, including retirement accounts, IRAs and life insurance policies

[SBM]

Probate assets include those assets titled in the Decedent’s name only with no beneficiary designation or rights of survivorship, the Decedent’s portion of assets owned as tenants-in-common and the assets owned as joint tenants without rights of survivorship.” (BBM)
http://www.tyla.org/tyla/assets/File/38668TexasProbatePassportWebReady.pdf

1) may explain why the inventory sheet shows the balance of any CD, cash or bank account as being zero if any such account they might have owned was in both their names.

Additionally:

“MULTIPLE-PARTY ACCOUNT WITH RIGHT OF SURVIVORSHIP. The parties to the account own the account in proportion to the parties' net contributions to the account. The financial institution may pay any sum in the account to a party at any time. On the death of a party, the party's ownership of the account passes to the surviving parties.“ (BBM)
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/ES/htm/ES.113

As ocgrad mentioned earlier, per 2) above, any retirement accounts or IRA’s in MC’s name is likely now in BC’s name, so long as MC named her the beneficiary, and she can do whatever she wishes with it. Same with any life insurance payout.

Except for DROP, we have no idea if any of these existed, since BC isn’t required to disclose such information.

 

[kidetect22]

Nothing of great importance really to add here today.

I will say- maybe it’s the stubborn in me- but if I was being accused as much as BC is- not just of making her husband disappear but more just being a selfish human being when she sees the hurt this disappearance hasn’t caused - affairs, selling his belongings, turning off his cell phone, selling the house(without any heads up at all to his kids) I would do numerous interviews with an attorney present, I would be begging LE to keep searching, I’d be making public pleas for someone with any information to come forward, to help the family bring MC home- I would never ever ever just walk away like he never even existed if I was innocent! Never. Call me stubborn, stupid, whatever it may be- I would A: want my husband found even if we were “roomates“ and I was having an affair and B: I’d want my gosh darn name cleared! IMO

 

[JazzTune]

I’m not sure I believe he bought only mascara and allergy medication for people with high blood pressure. Maybe BC has high blood pressure.

I had posted a while back that my wife was dept manager in otc med and former pharm tech at wal-mart going on twenty years I had her look at the pics of the medicine.I thought I posted but I didn't that she was sure it wasn't coricidin,She didn't really think it was anything her store carried.I showed her the prunelax which our store doesn't have.She says thats probably what it was.

It's not easy to keep all the information straight here for sure. I don't know whether BC has high blood pressure but the VI, Pmerle00 stated MC did. When asked whether MC had any medical issues she replied with this, on 4/12/2017, post # 218 on Thread 1:

"...No medical issues other than blood pressure ( which is controlled through meds which is prescribed by his doctor, and bad knees..."

Since she was told the medication was allergy meds for people with high blood pressure, I assumed it was for MC.

However, since she would have obtained that information from BC, we don't really know for certain what it was.

I appreciate your post here too, wolvesjohnblack, about the information you received from your wife - that she is sure it wasn't Coricidin. So that rules that out.

She thinks it could be Prunelax. I believe that was the consensus of opinion here as well...


JMO

 

[Razz]

Bringing this forward from the last thread:



https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...ounty-10-March-2017-5&p=14075179#post14075179

I’m afraid it doesn’t answer your question directly, but the following explains what happens with the assets of the estate, or “probate assets”:

“SUBCHAPTER B. PERSONS PRESUMED DEAD BUT SUBSEQUENTLY PROVED LIVING

Sec. 454.051. RESTORATION OF ESTATE. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a person who was proved by circumstantial evidence to be dead under Section 454.002 and who, in a subsequent action, is proved by direct evidence to have been living at any time after the date the court granted the letters under that section, is entitled to restoration of the person's estate or the residue of the person's estate, including the rents and profits from the estate.
(b) For estate property sold by the personal representative of the estate, a distributee, or a distributee's successors or assignees to a bona fide purchaser for value, the right of a person to restoration is limited to the proceeds of the sale or the residue of the sold property with any increase of the proceeds or the residue.

Added by Acts 2009, 81st Leg., R.S., Ch. 680 (H.B. 2502), Sec. 1, eff. January 1, 2014.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/ES/htm/ES.454.htm

So, it appears MC would be entitled only to what remains of his estate.

Further information on what is included in an estate and what isn’t:

The Difference between Probate and Non-Probate Assets

While a Will is important for directing the disposition of a Decedent’s assets, it does not control the disposition of all assets held by the deceased. Assets that pass by a Will are probate assets. But there are non-probate assets too. Non-probate assets are assets that disposition is not controlled by the Decedent’s Will or estate. Non-probate assets include, but are not limited to:

1) Joint accounts with rights of survivorship;

2) Assets with designated beneficiaries, including retirement accounts, IRAs and life insurance policies

[SBM]

Probate assets include those assets titled in the Decedent’s name only with no beneficiary designation or rights of survivorship, the Decedent’s portion of assets owned as tenants-in-common and the assets owned as joint tenants without rights of survivorship.” (BBM)
http://www.tyla.org/tyla/assets/File/38668TexasProbatePassportWebReady.pdf

1) may explain why the inventory sheet shows the balance of any CD, cash or bank account as being zero if any such account they might have owned was in both their names.

Additionally:

“MULTIPLE-PARTY ACCOUNT WITH RIGHT OF SURVIVORSHIP. The parties to the account own the account in proportion to the parties' net contributions to the account. The financial institution may pay any sum in the account to a party at any time. On the death of a party, the party's ownership of the account passes to the surviving parties.“ (BBM)
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/ES/htm/ES.113

As ocgrad mentioned earlier, per 2) above, any retirement accounts or IRA’s in MC’s name is likely now in BC’s name, so long as MC named her the beneficiary, and she can do whatever she wishes with it. Same with any life insurance payout.

Except for DROP, we have no idea if any of these existed, since BC isn’t required to disclose such information.

Wow. Thank you for this imho!

So, we really don't know their financial situation as we can't see all of the non probated items. And we can't see what they owed. Dang.

Have ALL family members been interviewed by Klein? I ask that because whoever went with BC to the atty's office should know quite a bit about what happened in the atty's office that day.

I'm being honest here so don't jump on me! (I know you won't imho). But I still think Klein may have blown it with his public statement. He publicly shamed the one woman he needs to speak with (the boyfriends comment, the bike comment, the 6 interview attempts comment). And he publicly shamed the one entity (SM & HCSO) he needs to work with. I felt he was playing to the family and to all those who think BC
is wicked.

His "Don't judge" comment was imo laughable. And his "let's move forward"
as well. He was trying to sound conciliatory after those very public bashings. That wouldn't make me want to talk. Honestly, if I'm "on the other side" there is no way I would trust him.





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[ocgrad]

Wow. Thank you for this imho!

So, we really don't know their financial situation as we can't see all of the non probated items. And we can't see what they owed. Dang.

Have ALL family members been interviewed by Klein? I ask that because whoever went with BC to the atty's office should know quite a bit about what happened in the atty's office that day.

I'm being honest here so don't jump on me! (I know you won't imho). But I still think Klein may have blown it with his public statement. He publicly shamed the one woman he needs to speak with (the boyfriends comment, the bike comment, the 6 interview attempts comment). And he publicly shamed the one entity (SM & HCSO) he needs to work with. I felt he was playing to the family and to all those who think BC
is wicked.

His "Don't judge" comment was imo laughable. And his "let's move forward"
as well. He was trying to sound conciliatory after those very public bashings. That wouldn't make me want to talk. Honestly, if I'm "on the other side" there is no way I would trust him.





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Maybe Klein doesn't need to interview BC yet. I was reading about the case just solved in OK of the girls, Freeman and Bible. They built a case interviewing friends, family and associates well before they interviewed the remaining suspect and charged him. The interview with him was mainly calling on him to confess to the facts of the case which they had already put together. I think if they find probable cause when interviewing any friends, boyfriends, employers, associates it will be enough to get a subpoena for BC's phone and financial records. She need not even know. They may be able to discover whether there is any wrongdoing to which she is connected in that way.
And we had a link in the last thread showing that Klein is answerable to the state not the county sheriff. So perhaps they can obtain case records through the state if Meeks does not want to help them.

 

[Talullah]

I don’t think Klein would’ve called BC out like he did if he needed anything from her. I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes.

 

[Tripod]

That’s a good possibility, IMO. But why not agree to an interview with her attorney present then? After being asked six times?

It is highly doubtful that Klein will divulge the contents of the interview. From his statement:

“Rebecca Chambers has refused to interview with our team. We have attempted six times.
-All other family members have agreed to interview and most have been completed. The family is hurting, some are angry, and now some are upset with the events and comments over the last 72 hours.
-All friends of the couple have interviewed with the team with the exception of three. Of the three, one has offered to be interviewed with counsel present. We respect that.
-As has been publicly discussed, there are and were multiple “boyfriends” of Ms. Chambers, one of which she was reportedly seeing at the time of the disappearance. Two have agreed to be interviewed, and one has already been interviewed. We urge the public NOT to judge; as with all stories, there is always the other side.”

As to Klein and HCSO’s relationship, at least Klein is trying to make this a joint effort, IMO:

“Communications With Hunt County
Sherriff Meeks made the statement we have not communicated with him or his staff regarding our investigation. This is an absolute lie to the public. He stated we have only written one report, to which he claimed was full of lies. This, as well, was a lie to the public. We want the public to know that our reporting system and evidence holding system is on a program called “Dropbox”. In such, upon our entry into the case, we gave the Hunt County Sheriff’s Office direct access to our case management system inside Dropbox. We do note they have made entries into our Dropbox case management system, and to suggest we are not communicating with them is an
outright lie. The Sheriff can access our files in this day by day if they so choose. Our statement to the public is simple: We have an open and honest relationship with Hunt County and they have access to everything we have done in this case.

[SBM]

We urge everyone to support the Sheriff and his investigators, as they have a hard job to do. There is much pressure on his department which sometimes leads to anger. We thank the general public for their calls and comments regarding this situation.

[SBM]

We hope to move to the second phase of our operation soon and we will, of course, keep law enforcement updated as to any relevant findings as prescribed by state and federal law.
We feel horrible for our client and for the family because of what they have been subjected to over the last few days by the statements of the sheriff. He has apologized and we hope you the public will accept his apology and this case can move forward.” (BBM)

https://www.facebook.com/HuntCountyTheftReports/posts/1767114760017877

Even if BC has retained an attorney and s/he is advising her to remain silent, in the end, it is BC’s decision. Again, the only time she has spoken since March 10, 2017 is when she shouted “Mascara!” during the press conference two days later. And for a good while afterwards, she had the full support of the public, even as she worked to have MC declared deceased behind the scenes. Yet she supposedly was too devastated to speak up.

Of course, none of this proves BC had anything to do with MC’s disappearance, but her actions over the last year and two months have been quite unusual and rather puzzling, IMO.

I can't disagree with a single thing you've said here, IMHO. Klein does seem to have offered HCSO an open door to their own investigation, so I don't "get" Meek's comments/attitude. I think in general, at least in the past, PIs haven't had the greatest reputations amongst LE, but that should always be on a case by case situation. I also think things have changed quite a bit since the old days, for the best.

I supported BC for quite a while. I'm much more ambivalent now. I suppose I tend to think the best of people until it flies in the face of reality. I viewed MC and BC as devout Christians in a long, very happy marriage. I had thought the infidelity rumors were just that, vicious rumors. Turned out many were not, much to my chagrin. Not living in that general area nor knowing anyone from there can have some disadvantages, but it can also provide for some objectivity.

Yes, much of BC's behavior (what we know of it, anyway) is a puzzle. Some I can understand.

 

[Tripod]

Wow. Thank you for this imho!

So, we really don't know their financial situation as we can't see all of the non probated items. And we can't see what they owed. Dang.

Have ALL family members been interviewed by Klein? I ask that because whoever went with BC to the atty's office should know quite a bit about what happened in the atty's office that day.

I'm being honest here so don't jump on me! (I know you won't imho). But I still think Klein may have blown it with his public statement. He publicly shamed the one woman he needs to speak with (the boyfriends comment, the bike comment, the 6 interview attempts comment). And he publicly shamed the one entity (SM & HCSO) he needs to work with. I felt he was playing to the family and to all those who think BC
is wicked.

His "Don't judge" comment was imo laughable. And his "let's move forward"
as well. He was trying to sound conciliatory after those very public bashings. That wouldn't make me want to talk. Honestly, if I'm "on the other side" there is no way I would trust him.





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I'd like to think Klein's statement was well-thought out before released. That there was a method to the madness in calling out BC, for instance. I wasn't sure if the "don't judge" statement was referring to BC, the boyfriends, or both. Probably both.

I do agree that the Klein statement was a little Jekyll and Hyde-ish. Hoping it was purposeful and has helped moved things along!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

"He informed us that the signal only traveled 2.5 miles an hour. We determined that at that speed he had to be on a bicycle. The speed was too fast for walking and of course too slow for a vehicle.

I find it very hard to believe that a fit 6ft+ 70 year old ex-firefighter could not walk at 2.5 miles per hour. That should be ambling pace for a man such as Michael.

And as someone who has done some cycle touring in the past, I am damned certain that anyone cycling at 2.5 miles per hour would be completely unstable or simply fall off.

 

[Talullah]

I don’t imagine BC or anyone responsible for MC’s disappearance ever thought so many eyes would be on them or there’d be a private investigator breathing down their necks. Klein may not be Mr. Tactful but he’s doing what he was hired to do, and it must mean everything to MC’s family and friends who deserve to know what happened. They’ve gotten the run around from people they trusted long enough.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I don’t imagine BC or anyone responsible for MC’s disappearance ever thought so many eyes would be on them or there’d be a private investigator breathing down their necks. Klein may not be Mr. Tactful but he’s doing what he was hired to do, and it must mean everything to MC’s family and friends who deserve to know what happened. They’ve gotten the run around from people they trusted long enough.

RBBM

Great post, Talullah.

They probably still have no clue how much attention this case is going to get when the “Disappeared” episode airs. Or that once there is an arrest, or a POI named, this is going to be a major, major news story, followed by episode after episode on shows such as “Dateline” and “48 Hours.”

As far as Klein, he has at least been much more professional than HCSO, IMO. And most importantly, he will no doubt deliver results.

 

[JazzTune]

I find it very hard to believe that a fit 6ft+ 70 year old ex-firefighter could not walk at 2.5 miles per hour. That should be ambling pace for a man such as Michael.

And as someone who has done some cycle touring in the past, I am damned certain that anyone cycling at 2.5 miles per hour would be completely unstable or simply fall off.

Your reaction was pretty much the universal response from many when this particular speed was first mentioned by SM. Therefore, it is believed, that was the exact reason SM claimed in his later FB interview that he 'misspoke' when he said he believed MC rode a bike at 2.5 mph to the lake to kill himself.

He then changed his tune and upped that speed to 4.5 - 4.8 mph, instructing us to disregard the previous 2.5 mph.

That is still way too slow for a bike!

https://www.livestrong.com/article/...miles-per-hour-on-a-bike-good-for-a-beginner/

From the link above:"... A light pace would be 10 to 11.0 mph while a moderate pace is categorized as 12 to 13.9 mph. If you are a beginner, start at a light or moderate pace, and ride at speeds between 10 and 14 mph..."

( BBM )

According to the P.I.'s statement, MC did not own a bike and had never even ridden a bike! Yet, beginner speed would still be too fast for the 4.5-4.8 mph. Even if that phantom bike did exist.

After SM changed the speed I posted my personal theory that I believe MC was abducted by a group into a waiting vehicle at the spot at the culvert where the dogs lost his scent. I believe a member of that group then took MC's phone, ran with it himself, and threw it in the lake.

4.5-4.8 mph is not a bike speed, but it is a slow jogging speed.

No one pays any attention to a runner, and it is common for runners to cover long distances on a daily basis. That could have even been part of the plan from the beginning. That would fit if the phone truly traveled on that road itself. ( The runner could not have been MC either; he had no history of jogging, and he also had bad knees. )

Others have offered that the phone could have traveled other ways, including by boat, and still have been in the vicinity of the towers where the phone signal was detected.

At any rate, very few people are buying SM's statement that MC rode on a bike at 4.5-4.8 mph, all the way to the lake and committed suicide by jumping a few feet to his death.

Mainly because it does not make one lick of sense!


JMO

 

[Razz]

I'd like to think Klein's statement was well-thought out before released. That there was a method to the madness in calling out BC, for instance. I wasn't sure if the "don't judge" statement was referring to BC, the boyfriends, or both. Probably both.

I do agree that the Klein statement was a little Jekyll and Hyde-ish. Hoping it was purposeful and has helped moved things along!

I hope the family is getting answers.
I am so frustrated right now.....I really can't imagine what the family is going through. I just hope (like everyone else here) that Klein's investigation will provide the answers needed to find MC, and answers to just what the heck happened. I really don't want to come to Texas for any trials, but if it comes to that, I'll rent the car and pick you up at the airport.






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[ocgrad]

Your reaction was pretty much the universal response from many when this particular speed was first mentioned by SM. Therefore, it is believed, that was the exact reason SM claimed in his later FB interview that he 'misspoke' when he said he believed MC rode a bike at 2.5 mph to the lake to kill himself.

He then changed his tune and upped that speed to 4.5 - 4.8 mph, instructing us to disregard the previous 2.5 mph.

That is still way too slow for a bike!

https://www.livestrong.com/article/...miles-per-hour-on-a-bike-good-for-a-beginner/

From the link above:"... A light pace would be 10 to 11.0 mph while a moderate pace is categorized as 12 to 13.9 mph. If you are a beginner, start at a light or moderate pace, and ride at speeds between 10 and 14 mph..."

( BBM )

According to the P.I.'s statement, MC did not own a bike and had never even ridden a bike! Yet, beginner speed would still be too fast for the 4.5-4.8 mph. Even if that phantom bike did exist.

After SM changed the speed I posted my personal theory that I believe MC was abducted by a group into a waiting vehicle at the spot at the culvert where the dogs lost his scent. I believe a member of that group then took MC's phone, ran with it himself, and threw it in the lake.

4.5-4.8 mph is not a bike speed, but it is a slow jogging speed.

No one pays any attention to a runner, and it is common for runners to cover long distances on a daily basis. That could have even been part of the plan from the beginning. That would fit if the phone truly traveled on that road itself. ( The runner could not have been MC either; he had no history of jogging, and he also had bad knees. )

Others have offered that the phone could have traveled other ways, including by boat, and still have been in the vicinity of the towers where the phone signal was detected.

At any rate, very few people are buying SM's statement that MC rode on a bike at 4.5-4.8 mph, all the way to the lake and committed suicide by jumping a few feet to his death.

Mainly because it does not make one lick of sense!


JMO

It was so illogical i keep wondering if it was orchestrated. The 2.5 mph comment was on KRLD radio, not a huge media outlet but picked up by NBC affiliate and so on from there. (Strangely that comment was not included in most media articles so no corrections were needed.) Did he know he would be asked to correct himself? He was prepared for that question on the FB interview so he was definitely aware of what everyone was saying. But even then gave a bogus answer. If he really had 2.5 mph why not just develop a theory that MC walked off. Would he really have done the KRLD interview without notes? Only if he were so closely involved in the investigation he didn't need them, then 2.5 vs 4.5 isn't a mistake you would make. If he were going to make up a number why not make up one that could be legit? If he isn't too involved was he fed a line of bull by an investigator who is trying to slant the investigation? Or by a deputy who wanted to make him look bad? If there is any truth to his statement I believe the mph is an average of when the phone left his residence and when it went in the water. I question if the phone expert was even able to get GPS data months after BC cancelled the line, so they had to extrapolate from the limited data they had. If that is the case and it did not connect to 3 or more towers they cannot plot an actual course the phone took with a body of water nearby. Or was it all just a message planted to attempt to make someone relax? Maybe he only wanted to say, "Suicide not homicide, so don't worry about being investigated just go on with your lives", but got caught giving too many details and it backfired.
JazzTune, it's possible someone walked or ran with the phone to set up the idea of suicide at the bridge but that isn't an area where someone walking or running would blend in. A person walking on that road would stand out. It's not done there. Someone may even pull over and offer them a ride. They could not predict who would pass them and take note like a LE vehicle, since they would be on the road several hours. Being in a boat is much more discreet.
I feel the blood in the shop was planted and what was left was disposed of down in the culvert. I'm not sure he ever made it home but if he did there were folks waiting on him there.

 

[Owl4]

https://youtu.be/vjXbchiKXbY

Wanted to share this! Glad it's still getting coverage all over!

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[Midge Montana]

https://youtu.be/vjXbchiKXbY

Wanted to share this! Glad it's still getting coverage all over!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327AZ using Tapatalk

I just got an email notification about this! I love BrainScratch and John's other videos. I haven't listened yet, but I will do so today!

 

[Midge Montana]

Let's remember that a WALK would take 5-7 hours. I'm having a hard time believing Papaw did that with arthritic knees.

 

[Owl4]

Let's remember that a WALK would take 5-7 hours. I'm having a hard time believing Papaw did that with arthritic knees.

I second that, Midge!

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[Talullah]

I think BC’s silence is to avoid the too-many details trap. If anyone over reported it was SM.