Match! TX - Plainview, BlkFem 19-21, UP53955, nude and decapitated on dirt road, Feb'82 - Debra Denise Terrell Mackey

[MadMcGoo]

*Bump*

Recent update from DDP states that Plainview Jane Doe is at lab for additional extraction.

I’d love a link if you have a chance!! Thanks so much for the update!!!

MMcG

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

I’d love a link if you have a chance!! Thanks so much for the update!!!

You're welcome.
If nothing else is stated, (most of) these updates are from DDP's Facebook page. Smaller updates, like Plainview Jane Doe's, comes from their pinned post, which updates on a regular basis.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Are there any rule-outs for Jane Doe? I came across Dorothy Richardson, who went missing June, 1981 from Abilene, but I don't know if she's been ruled out or not. Stats are slightly off, though.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Are there any rule-outs for Jane Doe? I came across Dorothy Richardson, who went missing June, 1981 from Abilene, but I don't know if she's been ruled out or not. Stats are slightly off, though.

I will have to check... I think if any, there may have been one or two listed last time I checked...but don’t quote me on that! I’ll check and let you know for sure! Thanks so much! •MMcG•

 

[MadMcGoo]

Are there any rule-outs for Jane Doe? I came across Dorothy Richardson, who went missing June, 1981 from Abilene, but I don't know if she's been ruled out or not. Stats are slightly off, though.

Well, there is still no one listed on the exclusion list, per NamUs. I would suspect there has been some comparisons made, but it’s quite a unique situation, they may just not be listed. Maybe contact one of the investigating agencies? There is no ME listed. They could also be waiting on DDP to finish their testing. The remains were exhumed in 2015, IIRC, and a sample has already been “sent out” for analysis. Could be some updates coming out!

I’m going to keep checking DDP’s page for updates and if I don’t see anything fairly soon, I’ll try and talk to the Sheriff in Hale County!

Let me know if you contact them and get a pertinent response!

Thanks!

•MMcG•

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Well, there is still no one listed on the exclusion list, per NamUs. I would suspect there has been some comparisons made, but it’s quite a unique situation, they may just not be listed. Maybe contact one of the investigating agencies? There is no ME listed. They could also be waiting on DDP to finish their testing. The remains were exhumed in 2015, IIRC, and a sample has already been “sent out” for analysis. Could be some updates coming out!

<snip>

Let me know if you contact them and get a pertinent response!

I see no reason to contact the agency as long as this is a DDP case, but if you feel strongly about it, then please do.

And thank you (and everyone else) for checking and posting NamUs updates for us outside the US

 

[MadMcGoo]

I see no reason to contact the agency as long as this is a DDP case, but if you feel strongly about it, then please do.

And thank you (and everyone else) for checking and posting NamUs updates for us outside the US

Anytime!!

 

[Blurgle]

DDP has posted on Facebook that the skull and body are not related and that Plainview Jane Doe is African-American, not Caucasian as previously thought.

DNA Doe Project

 

[MadMcGoo]

DDP has posted on Facebook that the skull and body are not related and that Plainview Jane Doe is African-American, not Caucasian as previously thought.

DNA Doe Project

I hadn’t seen the update! Thanks for posting!

Wow I think it had been established that the two weren’t related (or strongly suspected) but a totally different race/ethnicity also?! Two pretty significant details to get wrong, IMO. Well that changes things a little bit...

 

[MadMcGoo]

This hasn’t occurred to me before now, but is “Plainview Jane Doe” being used to refer to only the decapitated body or is the DDP testing/researching both the skull and body? I’m curious now if one or both are African American...

 

[Liv27]

This hasn’t occurred to me before now, but is “Plainview Jane Doe” being used to refer to only the decapitated body or is the DDP testing/researching both the skull and body? I’m curious now if one or both are African American...

I am assuming they're just testing the body, which they've just found out is African American. The skull must've been known to be Caucasian so they probably just ruled it out that way.

 

[JovanSrna]

NamUs information on this one leaves much to be desired and they haven't updated information on race/ethnicity.
I wonder what the exact condition of the remains was.

 

[MadMcGoo]

This is one of the first missing women who comes to mind... Debra Denise Mackey – The Charley Project... disappeared January 1, 1982 , 20 years old, small in stature at 5 feet tall and 110 pounds. Not many details in her case and virtually none for UID other than height and weight estimations; 4' 9"-5' 2" and 95-105 pounds and estimated to be 40 years of ago or younger.

Debra’s case is a sad and mysterious one...I wouldn’t have associated her with PJD before today. As of 2016 she still had family searching for her. Lubbock is about 50 miles from Plainview. Interstate 27 is a direct route to just about any field surrounding Plainview, including the one in this case. Farm to Market Road 400, a commonly traveled ‘backroad’ that runs almost parallel with I-27 to the east, is also a pretty direct shot to this particular field.

Lubbock woman, Debra Denise Mackey, still missing after 35 years

LPD Goes Public With Cold Case Missing Person, Debra Denise Mackey

 

[MadMcGoo]

I’ve wondered how many unsolved murders and Does from the Lubbock area could be linked to Samuel Little... this new information about PJD makes me wonder about this connection...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/lpd-releases-more-details-about-their-case-against-serial-killer-samuel-little-and-the-murder-of-a-lubbock-woman/amp/

On the photo of he drew of his victim he also wrote “West Texas”. Little mentions Wichita Falls (not a city I’d consider to be in West Texas) several times as being the place associated with the woman he remembers killing. But it sounds like after seeing a map of Texas, investigators were able to determine he was referring to a place somewhere in between Amarillo and Lubbock. Plainview is directly in between the two.

ETA: JMOO

 

[MadMcGoo]

PJD has no listed missing person exclusions on her NamUs profile but that doesn’t necessarily mean the remains have never been compared to a missing person. However, in light of this new information and my overall lack of understanding when in comes to “auto comparisons”, would these remains have been compared to missing black/African American women with DNA on file? I guess what I mean is, are those type of comparisons done with ALL DNA profiles on file or just those profiles matching a particular set of demographics?

 

[Blurgle]

NamUs information on this one leaves much to be desired and they haven't updated information on race/ethnicity.
I wonder what the exact condition of the remains was.

The info on race/ethnicity came out literally hours before I posted that. It arose during DDP's research. I suspect NamUs hasn't had the time to change the listing.

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

Given light to the fact that she is headless, hands bound behind her back, and African American....another case comes to mind, the St Louis Jane Doe. Wonder if they are connected or possibly related...she was Feb of '83.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Texas Rangers and forensic teams dig up Plainview grave​

By HOMER MARQUEZ hmarquez@hearstnp.com | on February 6, 2015

In a grave marked simply “Jane Doe,” forensics teams and Texas Rangers sifted through a coffin of bones Friday morning in the efforts of finding more answers to a 30-year-old cold case murder.

[…]

Forensic pathologist Dr. Ralph Erdmann of Childress concluded that the head found in Arizona did belong to the body found in Plainview.

Photo: By Homer Marquez/Plainview Herald
Dr. Harrell Gill-King (left) director of the laboratory of forensic anthropology and human identification at the University of North Texas exhume a body from a grave Friday morning in the efforts of identifying a 30-year-old murder case in Plainview.​

Police attempted to find the identity of the woman, as they tried to connect the deceased body with cases of missing women in the state. Theories formed that the body may have belonged to an exotic dancer from Abilene; however, dental records would dispel that rumor. The headless woman would never be identified.

[…]

“We’ll submit DNA samples on the head and DNA samples on the post-cranial, and if they’re the same they’ll hit each other in the data base,” said King. “If they don’t match, we’ll know. The real problem here is that the examination of these remains were done by an individual that was discredited.

“The reason we’re doing this examination has to do with the fact that there is still a lot of questions hanging over this because of that.”

ADDITIONAL ARTICLES:
Forensics team working to identity woman found near Plainview in 1982

Texas Rangers Reopen “Jane Doe” Cold Case in Plainview


This case has always bothered me, for several reasons, but knowing what we know now and reading this article again, makes me wonder how many other cases linked to this pathologist will now be called into question? Assuming they haven’t already. I’m getting a little off topic now.

I do think identifying Plainview Jane Doe will open up a whole other can of worms, so to speak. JMO.

I also think I answered my own question from before, “Is ‘PJD’ used in reference to the decapitated remains or the skull as well?”. The decapitated remains. I do wonder what made them associate those found in Plainview to a skull (and where is that sketch?) found in Arizona??

Forgive me for the long post, I’m just thinking out loud here. I have so many more questions than I did a week ago. Thank goodness the DDP took this case!

(These are my honest and humble opinions, as always)

 

[Blurgle]

I do wonder what made them associate those found in Plainview to a skull (and where is that sketch?) found in Arizona??

Dr. Ralph Erdmann, the pathologist who connected the skull found in Arizona with Plainview Jane Doe, was later convicted on several counts of evidence tampering and falsifying autopsies, primarily to 'help' law enforcement (but in reality hampering them and damaging any case against the truly guilty). He was caught after an autopsy report in which a man without a spleen was said to have a normal healthy spleen. The body was exhumed, but investigators found no sign an autopsy had ever been performed.

Basically he lied about everything and cheated everyone vilely, was caught, and is now on a crusade to whitewash his reputation - including scouring his Wikipedia page of most details of his wrongdoings. The damage he did to this case may have delayed identifying this victim for decades; the only reason anyone thought PJD was white was the skull he associated with the body.

How many innocent people were convicted due to his actions (and how many guilty never paid the price) I can't say, but I wouldn't be the least surprised if he finds this comment and makes some fake lying complaint to have it suppressed. He's done it before on Wikipedia.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Dr. Ralph Erdmann, the pathologist who connected the skull found in Arizona with Plainview Jane Doe, was later convicted on several counts of evidence tampering and falsifying autopsies, primarily to 'help' law enforcement (but in reality hampering them and damaging any case against the truly guilty). He was caught after an autopsy report in which a man without a spleen was said to have a normal healthy spleen. The body was exhumed, but investigators found no sign an autopsy had ever been performed.

Basically he lied about everything and cheated everyone vilely, was caught, and is now on a crusade to whitewash his reputation - including scouring his Wikipedia page of most details of his wrongdoings. The damage he did to this case may have delayed identifying this victim for decades; the only reason anyone thought PJD was white was the skull he associated with the body.

How many innocent people were convicted due to his actions (and how many guilty never paid the price) I can't say, but I wouldn't be the least surprised if he finds this comment and makes some fake lying complaint to have it suppressed. He's done it before on Wikipedia.

It’s quite infuriating TBH! Through another Doe case I learned of a very similar situation involving certain medical professionals. There is even a book written about it/them... The Cadaver King and The Country Dentist (I can’t recall the full title off the top of my head). Infuriating doesn’t begin to describe things that were done in those cases.

I do find it somewhat poetic, in a sense, that a task so grossly mishandled that it set the entire case back 10 steps is being wholeheartedly reworked and hopefully one day solved, by a group of people that has already moved countless cases 100 steps forward!

JMOO