TX TX - President John F. Kennedy, 46, Dallas, 22 Nov 1963

[Kimberlyd125]

Just my two cents worth here, as I'm new here and still feeling out the forum...

1. I've seen the video that supposedly shows the driver shooting JFK, including the fine work here showing great close ups of that portion of the "Z" film. Sorry folks, it's hair grease making the shine, not a gun. I was a surveillance observer in a major casino, catching card cheats and other thieves... watching video 8 hours a day, you develop some skill in it, and sorry, no gun there.

2. The final shot came from the front. I am not 100% certain as to exact direction, but either the grassy knoll or the bridge would be likely shooting perches.

3. Oswald shot AT JFK. He may have (more than likely, I'd say 80+% chance) caused the round that came in the upper back of JFK and hit Conally. The rest of any rounds he fired out of that pile of junk people refer to as a rifle would be lucky to hit the CAR. I've handled the Carcano rifles. Hard to cycle the bolt, slow to cycle and considering it had either an 18" or 20" barrel, it's not what you would call my first choice in a sniper weapon. Also, the scope he used was a small tube (7/8") 4x (4 power magnification). Crappy field of view, poor light, even during mid day, just again, not my first choice in a sniper weapon's scope.

4. This last one comes from my Mother. No, I'm not saying it's true or not, but she was 38 when JFK was shot, so was an adult at the time. She had told me a few times, when she heard I was doing some snooping into this subject "you know, LBJ's wife ordered new china for the White House, with the White House logo, and their (LBJ's) initials five WEEKS before Kennedy was killed". Is she right? Wrong? I have no way of verifying this, but if it was, would be an interesting fact to throw into the mix.

Thanks for letting me rant on here folks.

Great post Stone! Welcome to Websleuths.

 

[Stone2065]

Thank you very much for the welcome.

I have been studying the JFK assassination for many years, not to the extent of several posters on here, from what I've seen, but in my own unprofessional way. The one area that I DO have a small bit of skill in, is viewing the videos. I can sort through papers, and other assorted data, but seeing what I can from the videos, plus some of my own snooping, has always kept my interest.

Also, this looks like a great site. I'll do my best to keep contributing.

 

[justthinkin]

Just my two cents worth here, as I'm new here and still feeling out the forum...

1. I've seen the video that supposedly shows the driver shooting JFK, including the fine work here showing great close ups of that portion of the "Z" film. Sorry folks, it's hair grease making the shine, not a gun. I was a surveillance observer in a major casino, catching card cheats and other thieves... watching video 8 hours a day, you develop some skill in it, and sorry, no gun there.

2. The final shot came from the front. I am not 100% certain as to exact direction, but either the grassy knoll or the bridge would be likely shooting perches.

3. Oswald shot AT JFK. He may have (more than likely, I'd say 80+% chance) caused the round that came in the upper back of JFK and hit Conally. The rest of any rounds he fired out of that pile of junk people refer to as a rifle would be lucky to hit the CAR. I've handled the Carcano rifles. Hard to cycle the bolt, slow to cycle and considering it had either an 18" or 20" barrel, it's not what you would call my first choice in a sniper weapon. Also, the scope he used was a small tube (7/8") 4x (4 power magnification). Crappy field of view, poor light, even during mid day, just again, not my first choice in a sniper weapon's scope.

4. This last one comes from my Mother. No, I'm not saying it's true or not, but she was 38 when JFK was shot, so was an adult at the time. She had told me a few times, when she heard I was doing some snooping into this subject "you know, LBJ's wife ordered new china for the White House, with the White House logo, and their (LBJ's) initials five WEEKS before Kennedy was killed". Is she right? Wrong? I have no way of verifying this, but if it was, would be an interesting fact to throw into the mix.

Thanks for letting me rant on here folks.

I second that, great post, and I totally agree! Not only about the hair grease, but when the hair grease turns into a ha, ha, gun, the tops of everyone's heads are suddenly shinier as well. I'm thinking there may have been some clouds in the sky, and the sun had just popped out from behind one causing the shinier heads on everyone.

Absolutely a frontal shot. Any shooter would agree with that. Kennedy's head went back when the last shot hit him.

I've also read some of what you said about the carcano and it's accuracy or rather, lack of it.

I grew up in Dallas, and was a teenager when it happened. I had saved the newspapers every day for that week, but finally got tired of lugging them around, and tossed them.

I've seen the picture taken on AF 1, Jackie's head hung low in grief, the smile that Ladybird couldn't quite contain, and the grin, facial muscles don't lie, but mostly hidden on LBJ's face, when Albert Thomas winked at him.
Amazing photo that one.

 

[Stone2065]

Thanks.

I have been shooting for over 40 years myself, and have handled a few Carcanos, and haven't seen one yet that was what I would even call "passable" quality, much less of the quality needed for those shots.

I've also seen the pic you're talking about. Yes, and to me, it appeared that Jackie was one of the FEW that seemed to be in shock at the time of LBJ taking the oath. As far as some of the earlier references to blood showing on Jackie's clothes, remember, it was a bubble gum pink Gucci outfit, and especially any blood that was oxygenated, would almost match that color, so unless you have color pics of her after the shot, I wouldn't expect much to show, plus, as I've stated before, I was a surveillance observer in a casino. Most of our cameras (at the time I was working there) were black and white, so you had to learn what shades of grey each color for the checks were. Red checks were $5, and so yeh, if you have a black and white pic of Jackie, it's hard enough to tell it's red/pink that she's wearing, much less seeing blood and pink differentiated in shades of grey.

 

[Snick1946]

So, if the driver fired the fatal shot, why? Was he in on a conspiracy, or was this a tragic accident- maybe he intended to fire at a gunman he mistakenly thought was nearby?
I recently read the book 'JFK and the unspeakable'. In that book there are allusions to the Secret Service's relationship with JFK, they disrespected him for his lifestyle and politics. Allegedly he told close friends in the months prior to his death that he had the vague feeling that something wasn't right about his security.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Snick, I am bringing this link forward which someone posted earlier in the thread. I thought it quite interesting.

http://viewzone2.com/lbj/indexx.html

I was only three years old when JFK was asassinated but I remember it vividly as though it was yesterday! The replays of the shooting and my mother crying for our dead president will be forever imprinted in my mind. And even as a little girl, there was something about LBJ that I despised. IDK why....

wm

 

[Stone2065]

I was just looking over a pic that was supposedly taken within a second or two (either way) of the final shot on JFK. It's shot towards the grassy knoll, and there are 3 men in front of the fence.



If you look on the left side of the pic, you'll see the 3 guys. Now, you will notice that JFK's head is on Jackie's shoulder, so either he's just had the final shot, or he's literally a second from it. Now granted, I couldn't find anything odd in the pic around the fence area (as if someone were standing behind it), but consider this...

Shots had been fired in the plaza... from Oswald, etc. Now, I don't know about you folks, but I'd be eating grass at the point this pic was taken... not just standing there, with the man on the left appearing to have a camera in his hand no less, watching this unfold. Were they in such total shock they froze? Or, did they know more about what was going on, and knew they were safe where they were?

Go ahead and call me crazy, but it just strikes me odd about their behavior in the pic... :waitasec:

Upon looking at the pic some more, I would speculate that it was taken after the final shot, since on the far right edge, you can see what appears to be part of the arm of the SS officer that rushed the limo and jumped onto the back just before they took off, although Jackie hasn't gotten up and climbed out onto the trunk lid to get the piece of JFK's skull "so they could put it back" as she said in an interview years later...

 

[7forever]

Kellerman moved his head forward, backward and forward again in the space of 1 second (frames 296-314) in an attempt to block the gun's view from the north side of elm street and after to look like he's ducking bullets. Watch him look to his left towards Greer's chest. He was following the movement of the gun and Greer's arm. When Greer turned the second time, the gun was near his right collarbone, so all he did was push it up, over and shoot jfk directly in the forehead. Kellerman even throws his hand up to signal, it's time to shoot jfk. That is how ridiculously obvious it is. Minor things like that are normally ignored or written off as anomalies.

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Watch the fake reflection recoil and separate from Roy's head.
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[7forever]

With this old copy you can see the cartoon gun, arm and hand form perfectly before the fake reflection jolts backward in perfect unison with the headshot.
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[Stone2065]

I don't have the video editing skills that you folks do, however, I do have an understanding of video, and 1963 Lincolns. I think I finally see what you think is an arm of the driver, and no, sorry, it's the upper part of the driver's door. Plus, the top of the passenger's head, with the grease, is of course going to move some... there was a high powered rifle shot just shot in his general direction, and just as a final thought, you do understand that this film, even when new, was approximately 7.5mp resolution for still pictures, right? Not counting "Z's" movement during the shooting? Plus the low frame rate doesn't help matters at all.

Not trying to sound trollish, just saying is all. No offense to anyone.

 

[7forever]

I don't have the video editing skills that you folks do, however, I do have an understanding of video, and 1963 Lincolns. I think I finally see what you think is an arm of the driver, and no, sorry, it's the upper part of the driver's door. Plus, the top of the passenger's head, with the grease, is of course going to move some... there was a high powered rifle shot just shot in his general direction, and just as a final thought, you do understand that this film, even when new, was approximately 7.5mp resolution for still pictures, right? Not counting "Z's" movement during the shooting? Plus the low frame rate doesn't help matters at all.

Not trying to sound trollish, just saying is all. No offense to anyone.

Greer's left arm crosses over in the nix film which completely destroys any hope that this idiotic cover-up could continue on indefinitely. The arm is fake in Zapruder because it crosses in nix and muchmore.
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Advance to 1:09 and see for yourself where this gif came from.
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[Stone2065]

Ok, time for me to find another thread I think. I don't think I'm getting my point across.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I know next to nothing about guns but I have a question.

If the driver shot JFK, it would have been at really close range. They would not have been able to tell the shot came from so close by the injuries to the president?

I mean wouldn't you be able to tell if it was at close range or if it was fired from far away?

 

[7forever]

Ok, time for me to find another thread I think. I don't think I'm getting my point across.

<modsnip>
and ignoring the fact that Greer killed jfk and that is proven by showing his left arm cross his right shoulder in unison with the headshot in the nix film. That visual fact completely destroys the old and now invalid defense that Greer's left arm does not cross because it does, not only in nix but muchmore. The illusion that Greer does NOT kill Kennedy is in fact and obvious reality.
His left arm crosses and the headshot occurs at that moment.
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[Kimberlyd125]

I really don't think anybody here can say someones point is invalid or that they know it's a fact who killed JFK.
It's your theory. It's your opinion. That does not make it a fact.

 

[Mira]

http://www.jfklancer.com/greer.html

this was interesting, and shows a different point of view, such as greer's empty hand.

seems to me that if greer shot from the driver seat, wouldnt one of the 4 other people in the same car have seen the gun? the man sitting right next to him, the connelys, who he would have had to fire over their heads or between them, and jackie. the man in the passenger seat, less than 2 feet away, was a trained agent. greer was basically a chauffeur, not really trained.

(i dont have a strong opinion on this tragedy, only 'feelings')

 

[heartfortruth]

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/07/assassination-of-william-greer.html

The assassination of JFK has saddened and intrigued me for years. I was in college, on my way to my government class, when the cries rang out down the hall of my dorm. I've read a lot about it since then.
I have come to believe that you can't believe everything you read and not all of what you "see".
I do not know what really happened that day and I probably never will but I put this link here ( I HOPE) just in case anyone is interested and to add to the discussion.

 

[7forever]

Not actually against your theory but at least give us a motive for each person in the car to make it more interesting.....

Jackie would have wanted him dead for publically humiliating him with his tarts....
the others...paid off perhaps?

Then there's the mafia, the CIA and everyone else that wanted him dead....so not much of a conspiracy.

But if it was done openly in public like this, my point is, surely it would have been a spur of the moment murder...because otherwise it is the most ridiculous assassination idea ever.....in an open top car, get the passenger to kill him and the rest of us say it was a shooter in the hills.....but what about the crowds that will see it?

So yes, I get what you are saying, you think it was someone in the car...I get that. But why? What motive? And was it spur of the moment or deliberately planned?
Even if you don't know - just give me your theory, that's all I was asking...

Jackie wasn't look at him, so she didn't see Greer shoot although she may have realized it but who knows. Connally saw Greer shoot jfk and took it to his grave. They didn't say anything because it was a massive cover-up. Just imagine the governor of TX going against the media and government in the 60's. A complete joke. Of course it was ridiculous and that's the very reason why millions of americans should know about it. So, they can laugh at how retarded government can really be when their arrogance allows such an epic blunder.

Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot Kennedy.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.
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[Kimberlyd125]

I know next to nothing about guns but I have a question.

If the driver shot JFK, it would have been at really close range. They would not have been able to tell the shot came from so close by the injuries to the president?

I mean wouldn't you be able to tell if it was at close range or if it was fired from far away?

Just bumping this question.
Anybody have any thoughts?

 

[Stone2065]

I wasn't planning on getting back on this boat, but one thing sprung to mind...

If the driver shot JFK, what kind of bullet passes through or very close by the governor's head without either hitting him or leaving a LOT of powder burns? As someone that HAS been shot at about 6' or so, yes, you do have a LOT of powder residue in the skin. I was picking that crap out of my arm for over 2 decades, literally. I don't recall seeing a pic of the governor with black flecks in his face/head/cheek area, especially his left side, which was to the driver at the time of that last shot...

Just an observation...