TX TX - President John F. Kennedy, 46, Dallas, 22 Nov 1963

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I don't know who shot JFK - whether it was Oswald alone and/or someone else.

But Officer Tippit's murder seems the most straightforward part of this case to me. So much absolute rubbish has been said re Tippit and conspiracies.

This is a great site: http://www.jdtippit.com/ and this is the version of events I believe.
 
I stand by my initial research as to the major upper level players.

The inside the car shot in my opinion if accurate does not preclude an accidental discharge of the firearm.

I do not have instant recall at the moment but I seem to remember some vague accusations regarding the upper level people subbing inexperienced guys on the detail.

The shots from behind are a given. Also other shots in the plaza. The truth is always stranger than fiction.

In this scenario they had a "hit" in the back from long range. They had a hit from the front still. Also potentially from the front hitting the Governor. Both he and his wife swore until they day they died that shots came from the front. In the crossfire it would be understandable if the agent driving freaks out and pulls a revolver and attempts a shot to the rear. Ask yourself what would you do if you were in that drivers seat with a weapon at the ready?

Whether intentional or unintentional this scenario is supported by the actions afterward whereby the car is "wiped". If an agent was involved they HAD to cover that up immediately. I should clarify each participant AFTER the fact has no need to be "in on" the murder at all to cover up after the fact with zeal and complicity. Prevention of an open revolution, prevention of WWIII, general career CYA are all the potential unintended consequences if the truth gets out.

Greer shooting Kennedy by accident is a patently absurd theory but really is the only defense if Greer ever took the stand. He would admit to shooting jfk by accident in the commission of shooting back at the assassins and that explains why he lied about even seeing Kennedy let alone saying he turned only once. He died in 85. <modsnip>.
WallPaint565.jpg
 
Kennedy's head jerks forwards as he's hit with that fatal shot, the flap in his head breaks forwards and the pink mist moves back to front. He was shot from the rear. Your gif backs that up.

Kennedy was shot from the front because the driver shot Kennedy. That has been proven beyond any doubt without even a minute challenge in 14 months of posting this no-brainer. <modsnip>
At the point of impact, clear smoke emits as it does on jfk's forehead, the bank robber's face, and the man shot in the back of the head. Kennedy's head simply absorbs the impact and he's logically slammed backward.
<modsnip>
Smoke comes off face.
<modsnip>
Smoke at back of head.
<modsnip>
 
OK folks, here is the deal- No more exploding head shots or stills without a GRAPHIC warning tag.

Thanks to all of you who took the time to alert....
 
Have any of you been to Dealey Plaza? Or the JFK Museum in the Book Depository? I have been there several times...it is interesting.

MHO is that it was a turkey shoot, and I am not trying to be disrespectful. Oswald was part of the equation, clearly, but I think there were shots fired from other directions.

As for Robert Groden-I have debated with him many times and dont consider his POV valid...again JMO. My biggest issue with him was the life-sized picture of the exploding headshot he had with him and placed for all the world to see....at the Plaza that is.

As for the Zapruder film, the moment that stood out for me, even to this day, was Jackie O scrambling over the seat and onto the back of the car before the SS pulled her back in. I dont care what anyone says-she was in complete and utter terror...she was trying desperately to get out.
 
I just finished reading "The Kennedy Detail" written by one of the actual agents (Gerald Blaine) and othert agenst that were on the detail that day put in their memories too including Clint Hill, the agent that got Jackie back into the car and was always assigned to her.
I found it to be an interesting read and I have read many books on the JFK assasination.
 
Actually, according to Jackie herself, in an interview many years later, she was scrambling for a chunk of skull that flew out of JFK's head, thinking that somehow, if she had that, they may be able to help him... totally wacked out thought process, but considering she was scared ****less, perfectly understandable.

Which brings another point for those that state that all shots came from the rear... a chunk of skull goes TOWARDS the direction of the shots? Not away from the direction of the shot? Huh?

Not being trollish, just saying...
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tapes-reveal-JFKs-affairs-believed-death.html

Jackie Onassis believed that Lyndon B Johnson and a cabal of Texas tycoons were involved in the assassination of her husband John F Kennedy, &#8216;explosive&#8217; recordings are set to reveal.
The secret tapes will show that the former first lady felt that her husband&#8217;s successor was at the heart of the plot to murder him.
She became convinced that the then vice president, along with businessmen in the South, had orchestrated the Dallas shooting, with gunman Lee Harvey Oswald &#8211; long claimed to have been a lone assassin &#8211; merely part of a much larger conspiracy.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...FKs-affairs-believed-death.html#ixzz1UXJgHrry


A fellow sleuth had proposed this theory a few pages back with a link. I'll go back and see if I can find it. The info pretty much convinced me that LBJ was involved in JFK's murder. MOO

wm
 
I haven't posted here in a while, but just had a quick query.

I had asked about powder burns/particles on either Connally, or Jackie, or JFK, and no one seems to have answered. As I said, I wasn't being trollish, but talking as one that HAS been shot at 6' or less, there's a LOT of unburnt powder, skin damage, etc. and I WAS literally picking tiny particles of unburned powder out of my skin for over 20 years...
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tapes-reveal-JFKs-affairs-believed-death.html

Jackie Onassis believed that Lyndon B Johnson and a cabal of Texas tycoons were involved in the assassination of her husband John F Kennedy, &#8216;explosive&#8217; recordings are set to reveal.
The secret tapes will show that the former first lady felt that her husband&#8217;s successor was at the heart of the plot to murder him.
She became convinced that the then vice president, along with businessmen in the South, had orchestrated the Dallas shooting, with gunman Lee Harvey Oswald &#8211; long claimed to have been a lone assassin &#8211; merely part of a much larger conspiracy.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...FKs-affairs-believed-death.html#ixzz1UXJgHrry

A fellow sleuth had proposed this theory a few pages back with a link. I'll go back and see if I can find it. The info pretty much convinced me that LBJ was involved in JFK's murder. MOO

wm
I dont know about Johnson being involved but Ive always felt Radical Right factions whether in the private sector or Government were responsible.(Of course I should issue the disclaimer that I have a tendency to blame the Right for practicaly everything so grain of salt advised.)
However after seeing the Zapruder film (and I too have shot guns all my life)nothing will ever convince me that the final headshot came from anyplace but the Right/Front.
I can almost hear the subtext for that shot: "That Dingbat Oswald blew it!....Finish him!!"
 
However after seeing the Zapruder film (and I too have shot guns all my life)nothing will ever convince me that the final headshot came from anyplace but the Right/Front.

Those who have seen color pictures of the autopsy would agree.
 
I was interested to read in 11/22/63 that Stephen King comes down very much on the idea of Oswald as the lone gunman (although his wife, Tabitha, is with the conspiracists).

Me, I just don't know... no matter how much I read.
 
In a related matter, I thought the members would like to know about Chappaquiddick. Below is a chapter from Robert Cutler's book, The Taking of America 1-2-3. Chapter 7
The Control of the Kennedys
Threats & Chappaquiddick

Chappaquiddick. A careful examination of the real evidence in this event shows that Ted Kennedy was framed in the killing of Mary Joe Kopechne and then his life and his children's lives threatened if he ever told the truth about what happened. The facts in the case and the conclusions that can be drawn from them are contained in a book by Boston researcher Robert Cutler.[size=-1][2][/size]
Ted's withdrawal from the presidential race in November 1975. It is a fact that all of his and Robert's children were being protected by the Secret Service for five days in November 1975. A threat had been made against the children's lives unless he officially announced his withdrawal. He made the announcement and has stuck to it ever since. The Secret Service protection ended the day after he made the announcement.
It does not seem likely that Senator Kennedy would withdraw from the race because of a threat from a lone nut or from some obscure group. He remembers the 1965 threat and Chappaquiddick very well. He knows about the Power Control Group and he knows their enormous capability. He knows what they did to his brothers. He has no choice but to hope that somehow, sometime, the Group will be exposed. But he dares not let them believe he would ever have anything to do with it. Publicly he will always have to support the Warren Commission and continue to state that he will not run for president. Privately he is forced to ask his closest friends and his relatives not to get involved with new investigations, and to help protect his children. Some of them know the truth. Others do not, and are puzzled by his behavior. They go along with it under the assumption that he has good and sufficient reasons not to open the can of worms represented by the conspiracies in his brother's deaths.
The Power Control Group faced up to the Ted Kennedy and Kennedy family problem very early. They used the threat against the Kennedy children's lives very effectively between 1963 and 1968 to silence Bobby and the rest of the family and friends who knew the truth. It was necessary to assassinate Bobby in 1968 because with the power of the presidency he could have prevented the Group from harming the children. When Teddy began making moves to run for president in 1969 for the 1972 election, the Group decided to put some real action behind their threats. Killing Teddy in 1969 would have been too much. They selected a new way of eliminating him as a candidate. They framed him with the death of a young girl, and threw sexual overtones in for good measure.
Here is what happened according to Cutler's analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary Jo would not escape.
Mary Jo actually regained consciousness and pushed her way to the top of the car (which was actually the bottom of the car -- it had landed on its roof) and died from asphyxiation. The group with Teddy revived him early in the morning and let him know he had a problem. Possibly they told him that Mary Jo had been kidnapped. They told him his children would be killed if he told anyone what had happened and that he would hear from them. On Chappaquiddick, the other group made contact with Markham and Gargan, Ted's cousin and lawyer. They told both men that Mary Jo was at the bottom of the river and that Ted would have to make up a story about it, not revealing the existence of the group. One of the men resembled Ted and his voice sounded something like Ted's. Markham and Gargan were instructed to go the the Vineyard on the morning ferry, tell Ted where Mary Jo was, and come back to the island to wait for a phone call at a pay station near the ferry on the Chappaquiddick side.
The two men did as they were told and Ted found out what had happened to Mary Jo that morning. The three men returned to the pay phone and received their instructions to concoct a story about the "accident" and to report it to the police. The threat against Ted's children was repeated at that time.
Ted, Markham and Gargan went right away to police chief Arena's office on the Vineyard where Ted reported the so-called "accident." Almost at the same time scuba diver John Farror was pulling Mary Jo out of the water, since two boys who had gone fishing earlier that morning had spotted the car and reported it.
Ted called together a small coterie of friends and advisors including family lawyer Burke Marshall, Robert MacNamara, Ted Sorenson, and others. They met on Squaw Island near the Kennedy compound at Hyannisport for three days. At the end of that time they had manufactured the story which Ted told on TV, and later at the inquest. Bob Cutler calls the story, "the shroud." Even the most cursory examination of the story shows it was full of holes and an impossible explanation of what happened. Ted's claim that he made the wrong turn down the dirt road toward the bridge by mistake is an obvious lie. His claim that he swam the channel back to Martha's Vineyard is not believable. His description of how he got out of the car under water and then dove down to try to rescue Mary Jo is impossible. Markham and Gargan's claims that they kept diving after Mary Jo are also unbelievable.
The evidence for the Cutler scenario is substantial. It begins with the marks on the bridge and the position of the car in the water. The marks show that the car was standing still on the bridge and then accelerated off the edge, moving at a much higher speed than Kennedy claimed. The distance the car travelled in the air also confirms this. The damage to the car on two sides and on top plus the damage to the windshield and the rear view mirror stanchion [size=-1][3][/size] prove that some of the damage had to have been inflicted before the car left the bridge.
The blood on the back and on the sleeves of Mary Jo's blouse proves that a wound was inflicted before she left the bridge.[size=-1][4][/size] The alcohol in her bloodstream proves she was drugged, since all witnesses testified she never drank and did not drink that night. The fact that she was in the back seat when her body was recovered indicates that is where she was when the car hit the water. There was no way she could have dived downward against the inrushing water and moved from the front to the back seat underneath the upside-down seat back.
The wounds on the back of Ted Kennedy's skull, those just above his ear and the large bump on the top indicate he was knocked out. His actions at the hotel the next morning show he was not aware of Mary Jo's death until Markham and Gargan arrived. The trip to the pay phone on Chappaquiddick can only be explained by his receiving a call there, not making one. There were plenty of pay phones in or near Ted's hotel if he needed to make a private call. The tides in the channel and the direction in which Ted claimed he swam do not match. In addition it would have been a superhuman feat to have made it across the channel (as proven by several professionals who subsequently tried it).
Deputy Sheriff Christopher Look's testimony, coupled with the testimony of Ray LaRosa and two Lyons girls, proves that there were two people in Ted's car with Mary Jo at 12:45 PM. The three party members walking along the road south toward the cottage confirmed the time that Mr. Look drove by. He stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Look says that just prior to that he encountered Ted's car parked facing north at the juncture of the main road and the dirt road. It was on a short extension of the north-south section of the road junction to the north of the "T". He says he saw a man driving, a woman in the seat beside him, and what he thought was another woman lying on the back seat. He remembered a portion of the license plate which matched Ted's car, as did the description of the car. Markham, Gargan and Ted's driver's testimony show that someone they talked to in the pitch black night sounded like Ted and was about his height and build.
None of the above evidence was ever explained by Ted or by anyone else at the inquest or at the hearing on the case demanded by district attorney Edward Dinis. No autopsy was ever allowed on Mary Jo's body (her family objected), and Ted made it possible to fly her body home for burial rather quickly. Kennedy haters have seized upon Chappaquiddick to enlarge the sexual image now being promoted of both Ted and Jack Kennedy. Books like "Teddy Bare" take full advantage of the situation.
Just which operatives in the Power Control Group at the high levels or the lower levels were on Chappaquiddick Island? No definite evidence has surfaced as yet, except for an indication that there was at least one woman and at least three men, one of whom resembled Ted Kennedy and who sounded like him in the darkness. However, two pieces of testimony in the Watergate hearings provide significant clues as to which of the known JFK case conspirators may have been there.
E. Howard Hunt told of a strange trip to Hyannisport to see a local citizen there about the Chappaquiddick incident. Hunt's cover story on this trip was that he was digging up dirt on Ted Kennedy for use in the 1972 campaign. The story does not make much sense if one questions why Hunt would have to wear a disguise, including his famous red wig, and to use a voice-alteration device to make himself sound like someone else. If, on the other hand, Hunt's purpose was to return to the scene of his crime just to make sure that no one who might have seen his group at the bridge or elsewhere would talk, then the disguise and the voice box make sense.
The other important testimony came from Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public. Ulasewicz is the right height and weight to resemble Kennedy and with a CIA voice-alteration device he presumably could be made to sound like him. There is a distinct possibility that Hunt and Tony were there when it happened.
The threats by the Power Control Group, the frame-up at Chappaquiddick, and the murders of Jack and Bobby Kennedy cannot have failed to take their toll on all of the Kennedys. Rose, Ted, Jackie, Ethel and the other close family members must be very tired of it all by now. They can certainly not be blamed for hoping it will all go away. Investigations like those proposed by Henry Gonzalez and Thomas Downing only raised the spectre of the powerful Control Group taking revenge by kidnapping some of the seventeen children.
It was no wonder that a close Kennedy friend and ally in California, Representative Burton, said that he would oppose the Downing and Gonzalez resolutions unless Ted Kennedy put his stamp of approval on them. While the sympathies of every decent American go out to them, the future of our country and the freedom of the people to control their own destiny through the election process mean more than the lives of all the Kennedys put together. If John Kennedy were alive today he would probably make the same statement.
John Dean summed it up when he said to Richard Nixon as recorded on the White House tapes in 1973: "If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick. . . ."[size=-1][5][/size]

[size=-1]The fabulous Jackie -- Christian Cafarakis -- Productions de Paris -- 1972 You the Jury -- Robert Cutler -- Self Published -- 1974 A rope attached to the stick which held the Oldsmobile throttle wide open caught the drivers rear view mirror and tore it loose so that it was hanging by the rear bolt. There was no other mark on the left side of the car. A sliver of glass from two broken windows no doubt caused this bleeding since Mary Jo was already face down and unconscious in the rear seat. Since there was no autopsy this clean cut went unnoticed by the embalmers. On page 121, White House Tapes Paperback Edition, published by New York Times
[/size]

This is a very old post but most informative.. I always had my doubts about Chappaquiddick - whether Ted was even guilty.
 
I was interested to read in 11/22/63 that Stephen King comes down very much on the idea of Oswald as the lone gunman (although his wife, Tabitha, is with the conspiracists).

Me, I just don't know... no matter how much I read.

If we set aside all evidence that proves or disproves Oswald's involvement there remains one major obstacle to the lone gunman theory: lack of motive. Even those who claim Oswald was deranged have to admit that his behavior after the assassination was nothing like that of Booth, Guiteau or Czolgosz who all displayed pride in their action, as if convinced that they had done the country a favor. Unlike them Oswald did not admit to having shot at the president, depriving himself of the sort of fame a bona fide presidential assassin would have been seeking.

On the other hand if there was a conspiracy, the choice of selecting Oswald as a patsy leaves a lot to be desired. It would have made more sense to frame a reactionary Grand Dragon or militia type and then claim Kennedy was assassinated simply because he was Catholic, or Irish, or some other demented reason that would only make sense to an extremist. Moreover, it makes little sense to use someone whose poor marksmanship was documented through military records.

Unless of course someone had planned in advance that Oswald would never see his day in court and therefore no pesky defense team would be able to raise embarrassing questions.
 
Lee Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby for reasons that are unknown ranging from sparing Jacquelyn Kennedy of the trial to shutting him up. Ruby was a nighclub owner and had been known to have ties with the Mafia and organized crime. Now, if Oswald was not shot by Ruby, I wonder what he would say. I know Oswald lived in the Soviet Union and was a hard core Communist.

I think the Kennedy Assassination was a conspiracy motivated by revenge. Likely Communists or Mafia. Communists from Soviet Union and Cuba in retaliation for the Cuban Missile Crisis. Organized crime was being prosecuted more under the Kennedy Administration and many would be driven by revenge.

Did the KGB Arrange the Assassination of John F. Kennedy?
http://www.scientiapress.com/findings/kgbkennedy.htm
 
Oswald was killed by Ruby because nitwit cops gave the lunatic the opportunity and he was a lunatic.

Give the access the cops were giving just about anyone to Oswald, it's amazing the latter lived as long as he did.
 
Lee Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby for reasons that are unknown ranging from sparing Jacquelyn Kennedy of the trial to shutting him up. Ruby was a nighclub owner and had been known to have ties with the Mafia and organized crime.

Ruby was a small-time gangster and police informant. It's his latter status that allowed him to get close to enough to Oswald to shoot him. I believe that Oswald being assassinated so shortly after JFK has done more to feed conspiracy theories than any other circumstantial element save the Zapruder film.

This would tend to support a mob hit on the president followed by a classic "silencing" of a witness. But there is a problem with this scenario. Mob hit men are not known to go on suicide missions yet there was no way out for Ruby, he was 100% sure to get caught if not killed on the spot. Now unless he already knew he had a terminal disease his actions are difficult to explain. He didn't exactly fit the profile of a hotheaded patriot out to avenge the slaying of the president.

I know Oswald lived in the Soviet Union and was a hard core Communist.

No doubt he had once been a communist but by 1962 by all accounts he had grown disillusioned, stating that life under a communist regime was drab and boring. I don't think Oswald was hard-core anything, he was not a passionate man. He was just an unstable, depressive, aimless individual.
I think the Kennedy Assassination was a conspiracy motivated by revenge. Likely Communists or Mafia. Communists from Soviet Union and Cuba in retaliation for the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I doubt that, the Soviet government would never have condoned such an action unless they were willing to risk war, which they were not. This had been clearly demonstrated by the missile crisis. Besides, a state-sponsored assassination of this magnitude would likely not have involved someone as clumsy and unstable as Oswald. Most Western experts on Soviet policies at the time reported that the news of Kennedy's death came as an unwelcome surprise to the Kremlin, which is confirmed by archived documents that were made available after the fall of communism in Russia.
Organized crime was being prosecuted more under the Kennedy Administration and many would be driven by revenge.

If mobsters were involved they likely did so without the Mafia hierarchy's authorization because such a scheme was guaranteed to backfire. Mob bosses knew very well that killing JFK would send his brother Bob and Hoover on an unprecedented manhunt with the blessing of Congress that would leave no rock unturned. You don't shoot at a pack of wolves if you only have one bullet.
 
This is 1 case all of us need to slove one way or other. If and appears govt. can't agree on this case maybe its up to us..
Basic this is our Country and if elections are rig or people put into power that never should be in power in the first place this puts our whole country in danger..

My self I study this case on and off for over 20 years and no way I am a expert on it..

But I would not Trust LBJ or Tricky Dick both on a friendly game of cards at home kitchen table.. Much less anything more higher than penny annie game of card's with them 2..

Has it been proven as a fact LBJ was going be drop from ticket in 1964 election???
Appears what I found out LBJ and his friends was on a very slick banna peel and heading to jail if JFK stay in the White House..

Anyway myself look at this LBJ had the most to gain with JFK out of the pitcher..

Orders was to get Airborne ASAP, And here LBJ hold up the whole show waiting for Federal Judge to swear him in before he left Texas..If this was a direct threat to leadership of USA head offical's why set there on tarmac in open waiting on a Federal Judge??? Kind like he wanted be sure he was President before even entering Washington DC.. And not afraid of any type attack on himself setting there eatting Chicken Noddle Soup...

Tippit by his actions was looking for 1 person very hard when he was killed even to the report he pulled a car over just to look in back seat to see if somebody was hidden there..

Tippit just might end up a huge hero in this case..Tippit just might seen something he should of not seen, I never seen any sign of major wrong doings in his pass..He appears to myself as a old country boy that just trying to make a living for his family...Never found no bones in his closet..

Both LBJ & Tricky Dick had enough bones hidden in there background thousand wonders they was not jailed before they enter public life. Much less after it... What was it LBJ Grandmother said LBJ will end up as President or In Jail one of the 2 in his life time...That saying something coming stright from his own Grandmother..

But this case I feel should been clear up long time ago... Question is Why this long ??? All these great investigation groups like FBI, SS, and others could not even slove this case in over 48 years. Pretty bad police work in my book..

I seen City Police Chiefs fired for a whole lot less than that..
 

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