TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[Cubby]

I live here and yes, it can be sticky. But a leaf becoming embedded into a healed over scab?

Well, that's just gross.

Yes, it's gross. But if it was embedded in her back and she was so despondent she didn't shower she might not have even known it was there.

 

[Montjoy]

Thanks CoolJ -- put it better than I did. That is what LE are paid to do -- it's not just about cruising around, 'lighting people up', and eating donuts.

 

[RANCH]

It's really pretty cut and dried. If you are LE you are going to have to deal with unruly people. Just like if you are a garbage man you have to deal with garbage.
It's part of the job....don't like? Then the jobs not for you.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect it or be able to deal with rude and obnoxious people. I'm saying that I wish that everyone treated each other with respect.

What's wrong with wishing that and encouraging that kind of behavior? Instead I see the opposite. Promoting that it's your right to be a jerk to cops and they have to take it doesn't help things. JMO

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect it or be able to deal with rude and obnoxious people. I'm saying that I wish that everyone treated each other with respect.

What's wrong with wishing that and encouraging that kind of behavior? Instead I see the opposite. Promoting that it's your right to be a jerk to cops and they have to take it doesn't help things. JMO

As long as you don't break the law it IS your right to be a jerk to cops, and it is part of their job to deal with it without losing their tempers. That's not to say being a jerk to cops, (or anyone else), is a good thing to do, but its not an excuse for the cop to respond in kind.

Police officers are public servants, and the behaviour they get frequently away with would be a sackable offense if it were exhibited in the private sector. They should be held to higher standards than the private sector, not lower.

 

[Montjoy]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect it or be able to deal with rude and obnoxious people. I'm saying that I wish that everyone treated each other with respect.

What's wrong with wishing that and encouraging that kind of behavior? Instead I see the opposite. Promoting that it's your right to be a jerk to cops and they have to take it doesn't help things. JMO

I wish there was no need for LE at all. I wish there were no racial disparities. I wish there were no guns except for hunting. I wish that there were no sit-coms with laugh tracks. I wish that everyone on the baseball team could hit a home run every game. But wishing doesn't make it so, does it?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect it or be able to deal with rude and obnoxious people. I'm saying that I wish that everyone treated each other with respect.

What's wrong with wishing that and encouraging that kind of behavior? Instead I see the opposite. Promoting that it's your right to be a jerk to cops and they have to take it doesn't help things. JMO

There is nothing wrong with it and I wish also it was so but in my experience, this isn't the case. I don't condone being a jerk but I'm not into punishing strangers for their 'attitude'. I don't know their story, they don't know mine.

 

[katydid23]

She says on the dash cam video that he slammed her head into the ground and that she has epilepsy. The epilepsy is also recorded on one of the intake forms. But it doesn't appear they provided any medical care at all over a three day period. To me, that would mean perhaps dozens of employees being disciplined or losing their jobs. If they cut the time period of negligence to two hours, then there's probably a little discipline for a couple of staff.

She had a valid drivers license so she did not have active seizures. Unless she lied and drove anyway...?

 

[Cappuccino]

There is nothing wrong with it and I wish also it was so but in my experience, this isn't the case. I don't condone being a jerk but I'm not into punishing strangers for their 'attitude'. I don't know their story, they don't know mine.

Exactly. And if you're the professional in that situation and the other person is a random member of the public, you should be capable of de-escalating the attitude enough to give the person a ticket or whatever your job entails and be on your way.

That cop did the opposite, he met her attitude with an attitude of his own and went out of his way to wind her up. Completely unprofessional.

 

[Confusion]

I have rather mixed feelings on the whole who owes respect to whom issue. On the one hand, I do believe that people paid to deal with the public (I hate the term public servant) should always try to show respect for members of the public when they interact with them, and there is nothing saying that members of the public must show respect back. Of course, that's only if the methods used to show disrespect are legal. Spitting on someone can actually get a person charged with battery (or assault if you spit at them and miss.) On the other hand, if a member of the public doesn't show respect for one, or all, of these people, they shouldn't be surprised when they aren't shown respect in return - especially if their methods of showing disrespect are not legal.

In this case, I really didn't feel she was being very disrespectful. She answered his questions and never used profanity until he got physical with her. He had no valid reason (at least not an apparent one) to order her out of the car, to grab her, or even to insist that she put out her cigarette, but once he did tell her to get out, she was legally obligated to do it. I definitely don't believe he had a valid reason for threatening her with the taser. I believe that he could have been sued for false arrest if things wouldn't have gotten so out of had.

Moo

 

[bluesneakers]

She had a valid drivers license so she did not have active seizures. Unless she lied and drove anyway...?

How long do you have to be free of active seizures to no longer have epilepsy?

 

[CoolJ]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect it or be able to deal with rude and obnoxious people. I'm saying that I wish that everyone treated each other with respect.

What's wrong with wishing that and encouraging that kind of behavior? Instead I see the opposite. Promoting that it's your right to be a jerk to cops and they have to take it doesn't help things. JMO

I agree with you Ranch, we all should be doing more to encourage that kind of behaviour.

But nobody is promoting it's your right to be a jerk to cops, just pointing out that it isn't illegal and there are more constructive ways of dealing with it than what we saw from this former officer. JMO

 

[Confusion]

She had a valid drivers license so she did not have active seizures. Unless she lied and drove anyway...?

I'm not sure how much you know about seizures, but a blow to the head or severe stress could possibly cause one in a person whose seizures have been under control. I'm not saying it did, but it could happen. MOO

 

[katydid23]

How long do you have to be free of active seizures to no longer have epilepsy?

According to a few who posted here, 6 months.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not sure how much you know about seizures, but a blow to the head or severe stress could possibly cause one in a person whose seizures have been under control. I'm not saying it did, but it could happen. MOO

Was there any evidence that she had a seizure?

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm not sure how much you know about seizures, but a blow to the head or severe stress could possibly cause one in a person whose seizures have been under control. I'm not saying it did, but it could happen. MOO

I agree. My point was even if she'd been seizure-free for months and was cleared to drive she still had epilepsy and precautions should have been taken and care given if she needed it.

 

[Montjoy]

I hate the term public servant

Forgive this OT here, but I just wanted to give a different perspective on this.

I am a public servant, and my main (but not only) responsibility is to people who live in the arctic. I actually embrace the term 'public servant' as I am there to do service to help them. Their material and social needs are my personal needs, and I'm more than good with that -- it invests my work with a sort of purpose that acts as an incentive, as I can help some people by doing my job for the government. I know there are thousands of LE who feel the same way, and as someone who has regular interactions with the LE of the north, most of them are really quite good, but they're not the only LE I know, and in most places the truly good ones are always harder to find. Anyhow, as regards the term 'public servant', it really does depend on the attitude one has towards the public. There's no harm or shame in wanting to do good for one's neighbor.

 

[human]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't expect it or be able to deal with rude and obnoxious people. I'm saying that I wish that everyone treated each other with respect.

What's wrong with wishing that and encouraging that kind of behavior? Instead I see the opposite. Promoting that it's your right to be a jerk to cops and they have to take it doesn't help things. JMO

It would be wonderful, but until people are perfect, then those that deal with people in less than ideal circumstance need the training and self comfidence to know how to deal with people in adverse situations.

It is not about power and comtrol.

 

[Confusion]

You have to be free of seizures for 6 months to get a license here, but that doesn't mean you're cured of epilepsy. As far as I know there isn't a cure for it, only treatment. MOO

 

[Montjoy]

He had no valid reason (at least not an apparent one) to order her out of the car, to grab her, or even to insist that she put out her cigarette, but once he did tell her to get out, she was legally obligated to do it

RSBM --

Actually, it's not at all clear if she had any legal obligation to do so. Most of the legal opinion I've read on this said that he was legally allowed to ask, and she was legally allowed to decline; it was not a legal order.

 

[katydid23]

It would be wonderful, but until people are perfect, then those that deal with people in less than ideal circumstance need the training and self comfidence to know how to deal with people in adverse situations.

It is not about power and comtrol.

It kind of IS about power and control if you are a Law ENFORCEMENT officer and are on the street, putting yourself in harm's way while doing so.