TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[KaaBoom]

:thinking: Respectfully, orig question wasn't about the right to remain silent, it was "If LE commands you to get out of your car, can you demand a call to an attorney and remain in your car?" :facepalm:

You have the right to remain silent and talk to an attorney. She knew her rights.

 

[KateB]

10 Things About The Sandra Bland Traffic Stop That Every Texan Should Know
http://kut.org/post/10-things-about-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know

Jim Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, speaks with Texas Standard about the footage of the arrest, point-by-point. Here’s a transcript of the conversation, edited for brevity and clarity:
<snip>
Harrington: He does not have the right to say, get out of the car. He has to express some reason. &#8216;I need to search your car,&#8217; or, whatever; he needs to give a reason. He can&#8217;t just say &#8216;get out of the car&#8217; for a traffic offense.

Audio recording of Harrington's interview and more at link.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Hardly slept last night for all this churning over in my mind.

Ftr I also have an immediate family member in LE, albeit not in the USA. It terrifies me what he has to face on a daily basis. And we don't live in a gun soaked culture. But he is putting his life on the line potentially every single day.

However I know that he would not goad a driver like BE goaded SB.

O/t but when I've visited the USA I've found the LE to be quite intimidating. I am not a law breaker by any stretch yet found I didn't want to make eye contact with any. I found the guns hanging off their belts terrifying. I smiled at one once and this was not returned but an icy stare! [emoji52]

BBM. Your comment reminded me of a neighbor telling us that he was standing out front when a cop car cruised by. He said he nodded, smiled, and gave a friendly wave to the driver of the car. The next thing he knew, the cop car is making a u-turn and stops in front of his house. The cop exits the car and asks him just exactly what his problem is. That's how disconnected cops in my city are from the citizens they are here to "protect and serve".

 

[arkansasmimi]

You have the right to remain silent and talk to an attorney. She knew her rights.

:banghead: to call an attorney, to remain in her car????

&#8220;You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?&#8221;


When Are My Miranda Rights Required?
Miranda warnings are required once the person is in custody and under interrogations by law enforcement.

Custody: A person is in custody once the person is deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way and cannot leave upon his free will. This can occur in a jail, at the scene of a crime, in a public place, etc. Once in custody, police must give the person Miranda warnings before any questioning. Being pulled over or a brief questioning by police during a stop would not be considered being in custody and police are not required to give Miranda warnings.
- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/miranda-lawyer.html#sthash.MqqP3NMf.dpuf

Can I Be Arrested without Being Read My Miranda Rights? Yes. Miranda rights only protect against incriminating oneself during custodial interrogation. All the police need to arrest someone is probable cause. The police are only required to read the Miranda rights when interrogating a suspect in police custody. The police are aware of when Miranda rights need to be read and many times will question a person without placing that person under arrest - See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/miranda-lawyer.html#sthash.MqqP3NMf.dpuf

 

[cady]

Forgive this OT here, but I just wanted to give a different perspective on this.

I am a public servant, and my main (but not only) responsibility is to people who live in the arctic. I actually embrace the term 'public servant' as I am there to do service to help them. Their material and social needs are my personal needs, and I'm more than good with that -- it invests my work with a sort of purpose that acts as an incentive, as I can help some people by doing my job for the government. I know there are thousands of LE who feel the same way, and as someone who has regular interactions with the LE of the north, most of them are really quite good, but they're not the only LE I know, and in most places the truly good ones are always harder to find. Anyhow, as regards the term 'public servant', it really does depend on the attitude one has towards the public. There's no harm or shame in wanting to do good for one's neighbor.

"You gotta serve somebody".....Bob Dylan JMO

 

[ZOOL]

Does this thread have a general, accepted time-line of events, as well as confirmed facts? I've read a number of news articles and it seems to me the following are relevant (however the "times" are only my guesses):

• At approximately 4:00 pm, July 10, Sandra Bland is stopped for failure to signal a lane change by officer Brian Encinia of the Waller Co. Sherrif's Office (WCSO)
• Within 8 minutes of her stop, Encinia has completed a lengthy hiatus free from sight, in his squad car, and returned to Sandra Bland's driver's side-window. A conversation begins (the complete transcript exists)
• In less than 30 seconds that conversation has devolved into a confrontation regarding Ms Bland extinguishing her cigarette.
• (1. further details are easily seen and heard on officer Encinia's dashcam audio/visual camera
• 2. until Encinia has managed to extract Bland from her vehicle and forced her beyond the camera's audio/visual onto the road's shoulder)
• During the ensuing minutes, free from the sight of the dashcam, the only record of events is audio
• Shortly it can be assumed that Bland has been subdued physically
• At approximately 4:29 pm several other officers have appeared on Encinia's dashcam. One of them is a female officer named Pennie Goodie. They begin a 10-minute thorough search of Bland's vehicle: front and rear compartments and trunk.
• Meanwhile officer Encinia can be heard in his audio dash in conversation with his sergeant regarding Encinia's interpretation of events
• During this entire timeline so far, there has been no reason explained to Sandra Bland's 14 requests for why she has been arrested, though Encinia at the onset of their confrontation -- after requesting Bland to extinguish her cigarette -- has said "I am giving you a lawful order, please step out of your car". To which, Bland has replied in many words (paraphrased here): You said I was free to go. I'm in my car. There is no law that says that I must stop smoking. And why am I under arrest?
• After 4:29 pm, there is no further audio/visual, or record, of Sandra Bland's events until --

...At this point, I will forego further comment, and will continue later with only "known factual events".

My purpose here is not to justify right or wrong one way or the other . It is merely an attempt to get to known facts that are generally accepted.

 

[nomoresorrow]

This msm headline is part if the problem in our country today!
She is labeled a hero and we have "public servants" attending her funeral, however our "public servants" including THE top "public servant" also known as commander in chief couldn't be bothered to pay respects to our military in Chattanooga!

What "public servants" are you talking about? According to the article posted (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/sandra-bland-be-laid-rest-scrutiny-continues):

(BBM)

"More than two dozen members of the Sigma Gamma Rho sorority &#8211; of which Bland was a member &#8211; marched into the sanctuary as the service began, wearing white: the color worn by Bland&#8217;s family and by many who attended the closed service, or decked out in signature blue and gold. They included members of the national leadership. Bland had joined the sorority in college, and two of her line sisters participated in the service, tearfully remembering the young woman who one sister called her &#8220;backbone,&#8221; and the glue that held the chapter together."

National leadership (in reference to THIS article) = the national leadership of Sigma Gamma Rho
(http://www.sgrho1922.org/leadership)

It's always intriguing to me how, in all of these cases [threads] that involve white law enforcement officers and black [victim] descendants; those who consistently and unquestionably support the white PO also typically equate it with and take the opportunity to post their anti-Obama rhetoric. While it may be subtle and covert, allowing those expressing those particular views to vehemently deny the existence of their bias, the [long] history of posts speaks loudly. MO ~

 

[arkansasmimi]

The sound of the woman's voice and my intuition. How the driver talked, how the cop talked to her. It's pretty obvious that there was a big difference in the cop's attitude between the two stops. So the question is why? The most likely explanation I can think of is that the drivers were of different races. Plus as some here have pointed out, that county is known as a racist crap hole. I believe that the cop racially profiled her as she was making the turn. Then he U-turned, and tailed her until he had a reason to stop her. Which happened when he saw her change lanes without using her turn signal. Thats the way cops work. No matter how good a driver you are, if the cop wants to stop you, all he has to do is follow you until you make one small mistake. Then he's got you. If all else fails the cop will just lie.

So that's just your opinion that you think you know her race??... And you think he just looked up and saw a black lady steady drive thru a stop sign that he did the u-turn for, so it wasn't because her actions caught his attention, it was because he was down the road a short ways and saw a black lady driving. I see. ullhair: Officer stopped this driver, who ran a stop sign, changed lanes without properly giving turn signal, while she is under the influence but she is only stopped because of the color of her skin. Innocent young lady. :what:

 

[Nana]

You have the right to remain silent and talk to an attorney. She knew her rights.

Maybe she should have called her attorney he/she could have bailed her out.
But it looks like she waisted her calls on family and friends.

 

[EllieBee]

10 Things About The Sandra Bland Traffic Stop That Every Texan Should Know
http://kut.org/post/10-things-about-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know


Audio recording of Harrington's interview and more at link.

Wow! Excellent Q and A.

Mr. Harrington has a very impressive CV.
http://www.texascivilrightsproject.org/staff-directory/jim-harrington/

 

[BellaVita]

Sandra Bland had a new job, a new life in front of her in Texas, and her life was going good. Everything was getting better. Then she met Trooper Brian Enciniam and not only did he wreck her live, but within three days it was over. Why? Because she didn't use her turn signal and she didn't put out her cigarette when he told her to. The police are the worst bullies in out society. They pick on the poor, they pick on the defenseless, They beat homeless people to death, they shoot mentally ill people, they shoot black kids in the back. The list goes on and on.

You talk about these people like they are some great heros who are keeping us safe. But keeping us safe from who? Safe from people who don't use their turn signals? Safe from people who sell cigarettes without a tax license? All I can say is that these bullies deserve every bit of bad karma that they get.

I have no idea how she got hired at that job. The college website says they do background checks. I wonder if they perform drug testing. Jobs are hard to come by now. Her driving record is just terrible. She owes $7000 in fines. The police are trying to protect the public from dangerous, irresponsible, drunk drivers without insurance who drive 20-25 mph over the speed limit. No reasonable person has that much contact with LE by the age of 26. Police officers have witnessed a lot of broken bodies resulting from careless driving. To them, said careless/drunk driving may not be a minor thing. It's not minor to me. Somebody with that type of driving record is likely to kill or maim others. Of course she was irritated by being stopped. It was just going to add to the huge mountain of trouble already building. Her driver license was going to be pulled. I'm sure she would have just kept driving anyway and without insurance. Rules did not apply to her. So, let's fire all LE and suspend all the laws. Because this is a very safe society and nobody needs protecting.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

The sound of the woman's voice and my intuition. How the driver talked, how the cop talked to her. It's pretty obvious that there was a big difference in the cop's attitude between the two stops. So the question is why? The most likely explanation I can think of is that the drivers were of different races. Plus as some here have pointed out, that county is known as a racist crap hole. I believe that the cop racially profiled her as she was making the turn. Then he U-turned, and tailed her until he had a reason to stop her. Which happened when he saw her change lanes without using her turn signal. Thats the way cops work. No matter how good a driver you are, if the cop wants to stop you, all he has to do is follow you until you make one small mistake. Then he's got you. If all else fails the cop will just lie.

I think the difference in the "cop's attitude" was related to the difference in the tone and content of that driver's responses.

 

[pepelepolecat]

How so? You don't believe the public can be rude, aggressive and antagonistic towards cops?

No, I suspect the OP was saying that some of us are fully well aware of how the public can behave towards LEO and that some of us may know quite intimately how stressful the LEO job can be.

 

[arkansasmimi]

10 Things About The Sandra Bland Traffic Stop That Every Texan Should Know
http://kut.org/post/10-things-about-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know


Audio recording of Harrington's interview and more at link.

Jim Harrington... a little about him

In 1983, Harrington became Legal Director of the Texas Civil Liberties Union in Austin, where he litigated cases involving privacy as a fundamental right, free speech, and equal rights for farm laborers to worker’s compensation and unemployment benefits. He also helped organize the evening East Austin pro bono clinic for low-income people.

In 1990, Harrington founded the Texas Civil Rights Project, a statewide non-profit foundation that promotes social, racial, and economic justice and civil liberty, through the legal system and public education, for low income and poor persons. The Project has a staff of 40 with offices in Austin, El Paso, San Juan, Houston, and Odessa. Harrington has handled cases involving grand jury discrimination, voting rights, free speech and assembly, and the rights of persons with disabilities. http://www.texascivilrightsproject.org/staff-directory/jim-harrington/

 

[Nana]

What "public servants" are you talking about? According to the article posted (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/sandra-bland-be-laid-rest-scrutiny-continues):

(BBM)

"More than two dozen members of the Sigma Gamma Rho sorority &#8211; of which Bland was a member &#8211; marched into the sanctuary as the service began, wearing white: the color worn by Bland&#8217;s family and by many who attended the closed service, or decked out in signature blue and gold. They included members of the national leadership. Bland had joined the sorority in college, and two of her line sisters participated in the service, tearfully remembering the young woman who one sister called her &#8220;backbone,&#8221; and the glue that held the chapter together."

National leadership (in reference to THIS article) = the national leadership of Sigma Gamma Rho
(http://www.sgrho1922.org/leadership)

It's always intriguing to me how, in all of these cases [threads] that involve white law enforcement officers and black [victim] descendants; those who consistently and unquestionably support the white PO also typically equate it with and take the opportunity to post their anti-Obama rhetoric. While it may be subtle and covert, allowing those expressing those particular views to vehemently deny the existence of their bias, the [long] history of posts speaks loudly. MO ~

Bland&#8217;s funeral drew Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin and Rep. Bill Foster
Yes they too are "public servants" as well as top "public servant" obama.
Anyway you look at it tax dollars pay them all!

 

[cady]

He asked her several times to exit the vehicle. It was a lawful order and she refused. That is exactly what the taser is for.

Ouch! Perhaps it is time to review the proper use of tasers in Law Enforcement. I understand that he had the authority to command her to exit the car, but she also had the right, out of fear, to defy him. If only she had told him that she would exit when a female officer arrived on scene...not that a female would have "sided" with her, but with a witness, I think he may have refrained from all the manhandling. She really needed a reliable witness. (one was chased off). JMO

 

[nomoresorrow]

:banghead: to call an attorney, to remain in her car????

&#8220;You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?&#8221;


When Are My Miranda Rights Required?
Miranda warnings are required once the person is in custody and under interrogations by law enforcement.

Custody: A person is in custody once the person is deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way and cannot leave upon his free will. This can occur in a jail, at the scene of a crime, in a public place, etc. Once in custody, police must give the person Miranda warnings before any questioning. Being pulled over or a brief questioning by police during a stop would not be considered being in custody and police are not required to give Miranda warnings.
- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/miranda-lawyer.html#sthash.MqqP3NMf.dpuf

Can I Be Arrested without Being Read My Miranda Rights? Yes. Miranda rights only protect against incriminating oneself during custodial interrogation. All the police need to arrest someone is probable cause. The police are only required to read the Miranda rights when interrogating a suspect in police custody. The police are aware of when Miranda rights need to be read and many times will question a person without placing that person under arrest - See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/miranda-lawyer.html#sthash.MqqP3NMf.dpuf

You're right - to a point. However, just because someone is not in custody does not mean they have NO rights:

"If a person is not in police custody, no Miranda warning is required and anything the person says can be used at trial if the person is later charged with a crime. This exception most often comes up when the police stop someone on the street to question him or her about a recent crime or the person blurts out a confession before the police have an opportunity to deliver the warning. If a person believes that he or she is a potential suspect in a crime, then it may be wise to politely decline to answer questions, at least until after consulting an attorney." (http://resources.lawinfo.com/criminal-law/when-must-the-police-read-me-my-miranda-right.html).

Officer approached and asked for license/registration/insurance information - Sandra Bland complied.
Officer came back to vehicle and inquired about her "appearing irritated" - in response, Sandra Bland explained the reason for her irritability.
Officer then, following Sandra Bland's answer to his inquest, asks her if she's done - Sandra Bland pointed out to the officer that HE asked the question and she simply answered.
Officer then, rather then simply giving her the warning that he'd planned to give her (would have taken all of 10 seconds, with officer handing her the written warning and verbally giving her a word of caution, and then Sandra Bland would have been on her way), asks Sandra Bland to extinguish her cigarette. STOP here: Why did the officer ask her to extinguish her cigarette when all he had to do was pass her the written warning/tell her to use caution in the future and be on his way? BECAUSE he was angry that Sandra Bland dared to speak up to him and he wasn't gonna have that. Instead, he wanted to "put her in her place" and "show her who's boss" - all emotionally [ego] driven unprofessional behavior. HE should have NEVER let it go this way and she should NEVER have been incarcerated in the first place. Had she not been, she would be alive today. So, while OBE didn't directly kill Sandra Bland, he is, IMO, indirectly, but nonetheless, responsible for her death.

MO ~

 

[arkansasmimi]

Does this thread have a general, accepted time-line of events, as well as confirmed facts? I've read a number of news articles and it seems to me the following are relevant (however the "times" are only my guesses):

• At approximately 4:00 pm, July 10, Sandra Bland is stopped for failure to signal a lane change by officer Brian Encinia of the Waller Co. Sherrif's Office (WCSO)
• Within 8 minutes of her stop, Encinia has completed a lengthy hiatus free from sight, in his squad car, and returned to Sandra Bland's driver's side-window. A conversation begins (the complete transcript exists)
• In less than 30 seconds that conversation has devolved into a confrontation regarding Ms Bland extinguishing her cigarette.
• (1. further details are easily seen and heard on officer Encinia's dashcam audio/visual camera
• 2. until Encinia has managed to extract Bland from her vehicle and forced her beyond the camera's audio/visual onto the road's shoulder)
• During the ensuing minutes, free from the sight of the dashcam, the only record of events is audio
• Shortly it can be assumed that Bland has been subdued physically
• At approximately 4:29 pm several other officers have appeared on Encinia's dashcam. One of them is a female officer named Pennie Goodie. They begin a 10-minute thorough search of Bland's vehicle: front and rear compartments and trunk.
• Meanwhile officer Encinia can be heard in his audio dash in conversation with his sergeant regarding Encinia's interpretation of events
• During this entire timeline so far, there has been no reason explained to Sandra Bland's 14 requests for why she has been arrested, though Encinia at the onset of their confrontation -- after requesting Bland to extinguish her cigarette -- has said "I am giving you a lawful order, please step out of your car". To which, Bland has replied in many words (paraphrased here): You said I was free to go. I'm in my car. There is no law that says that I must stop smoking. And why am I under arrest?
• After 4:29 pm, there is no further audio/visual, or record, of Sandra Bland's events until --

...At this point, I will forego further comment, and will continue later with only "known factual events".

My purpose here is not to justify right or wrong one way or the other . It is merely an attempt to get to known facts that are generally accepted.

the 8 min mark on video iirc is where the confrontation starts. Start at the beginning when he goes to the passenger side, thats where first contact with SB starts, not after he runs her DL/Insurance.
At the Drivers side, iirc he says OK ma'am then 6 sec later asks are you ok... the whole from asking to put out cig to "light you up" happens total about 1.16 seconds. IIRC.

Also there are a few things noted wrong in the transcripts that dont match with audio, transcript says SB got there Today, dashcam says yesterday. Cant remb but there was a few more. JMHO

 

[nomoresorrow]

Bland&#8217;s funeral drew Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin and Rep. Bill Foster
Yes they too are "public servants" as well as top "public servant" obama.
Anyway you look at it tax dollars pay them all!

My sincere apologies for not recognizing and acknowledging that two local political figures did attend the service. Had I hit the "read more" button further down, I would have seen/read that.

Also here:

"Bland&#8217;s funeral drew Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin and Rep. Bill Foster, who came to pay their respects to the family, and to announce that they sent joint letters to Attorney General Loretta Lynch calling for a &#8220;fair and thorough federal investigation&#8221; into Bland&#8217;s death."
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/sandra-bland-be-laid-rest-scrutiny-continues

 

[cady]

It does seem an odd way of doing things. It's been yrs since I've gotten a ticket but it has always been signed while I'm sitting inside my vehicle.
Maybe BE was fibbing again. I think he probably was.

And she was not smoking from her ears..he could explain the ticket or warning and be easily heard. I (boastingly) can hear and sign my name while sitting and smoking. Isn't that just AMAZING multi-tasking though? JMO