TX - Scott Buchholtz-Sanchez, 3 wks, decapitated, San Antonio, July 2009 *Insanity*

[CHICANA]

I just cannot believe your horribly unkind post! When I met that person, I had no idea she has a long history of mental illness, starting with hospitalizations in college. I met her 20 years ago in La Leche League, and she seemed frazzled, but fine...with four kids, the being frazzled seemed logical. We lost touch when I moved, and recently reconnected...found the four kids have now become alkies, druggies, had many abortions....and the mom now disclosed her history to me, and is currently hospitalized. Wow, so I guess I was just dumb to be her friend, without doing a background check!!!

Now, I find it interesting, and I may even leave this board over this, that people who suggested execution of the mom who killed her infant, have had less bashing than I have, when I simply related my experiences with moms who have mental illness. And I did not even cite all my experiences....now, why is it ok to urge execution, but not to say that she should not have had kids, given her precarious history??????

I'm sorry I wasn't very clear.
I wouldn't consider someone who described me as selfish and irresponsible to be a friend. I couldn't speak horribly about a person on a public forum and still call myself their friend. I try be understanding and supportive of my friends and I'd feel horrible if my friend learned that I'd publicly called her a selfish person who ruined her children's lives.
I don't think you were dumb to be her friend.
And you can certainly think that someone shouldn't have children.
I think some disagree with those who think there should be an entity who decides that some people shouldn't be allowed to have children.

 

[Native New Yorker]

Then let me be more clear; I do not believe that any "entity" should decide who has children, and who does not. In my previous posts, I delineated that view, and stated that I thought it should be based on doctor's recs, and up to the family.
I am no longer friends with that woman. I knew her briefly many years ago, and am no longer in touch with her. Her husband and children are very protective, and do not want anyone from her past in touch with her, and also, I feel that her illness has really changed all of them.

My children do not have a negative view of mental illness, partly because they grew up in the South, where it seems that eccentricity is more tolerated. We had a neighbor who would routinely break into people's houses and rearrange furniture.People would come home and find her on their porch. Her husband did not want to have her committed, and she was harmless. She would do things like leave a card with a bee on it, with a jar of honey. She was not at all frightening to my children. We had another neighbor who wore a hat lined with tinfoil, because she was allergic to the electricity. She hung her magazines out on the clothesline, and had no power in her home. I let my daughter go to Bible study in her home. Please do not think I am making fun of the mentally ill, in relating these experiences. Those two woman saw the world a bit differently, and as far as I know, they did not harm anyone. Maybe they did not like to take their meds, which I know can have awful side effects.

 

[southcitymom]

Then let me be more clear; I do not believe that any "entity" should decide who has children, and who does not. In my previous posts, I delineated that view, and stated that I thought it should be based on doctor's recs, and up to the family.
I am no longer friends with that woman. I knew her briefly many years ago, and am no longer in touch with her. Her husband and children are very protective, and do not want anyone from her past in touch with her, and also, I feel that her illness has really changed all of them.

My children do not have a negative view of mental illness, partly because they grew up in the South, where it seems that eccentricity is more tolerated. We had a neighbor who would routinely break into people's houses and rearrange furniture.People would come home and find her on their porch. Her husband did not want to have her committed, and she was harmless. She would do things like leave a card with a bee on it, with a jar of honey. She was not at all frightening to my children. We had another neighbor who wore a hat lined with tinfoil, because she was allergic to the electricity. She hung her magazines out on the clothesline, and had no power in her home. I let my daughter go to Bible study in her home. Please do not think I am making fun of the mentally ill, in relating these experiences. Those two woman saw the world a bit differently, and as far as I know, they did not harm anyone. Maybe they did not like to take their meds, which I know can have awful side effects.

Tolerated, hell - it's downright coveted! :crazy:

On a serious note - you are absolutely right that the meds can be brutal, as OLG delineated in a previous post.

 

[OneLostGrl]

also what i want to know is why the sister gets off scot-free? she's the one who kept handing the baby back the woman, who had been going off the deep end since the night before, and hearing voices. why would anyone in their right mind do something like that.. instead of protecting the defenseless child? isn't she partly negligent here?

She sure is, IMO. So's the hospital that let the woman go.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I just cannot believe your horribly unkind post! When I met that person, I had no idea she has a long history of mental illness, starting with hospitalizations in college. I met her 20 years ago in La Leche League, and she seemed frazzled, but fine...with four kids, the being frazzled seemed logical. We lost touch when I moved, and recently reconnected...found the four kids have now become alkies, druggies, had many abortions....and the mom now disclosed her history to me, and is currently hospitalized. Wow, so I guess I was just dumb to be her friend, without doing a background check!!!

Now, I find it interesting, and I may even leave this board over this, that people who suggested execution of the mom who killed her infant, have had less bashing than I have, when I simply related my experiences with moms who have mental illness. And I did not even cite all my experiences....now, why is it ok to urge execution, but not to say that she should not have had kids, given her precarious history??????

What I think you are just not getting is that your posts were horribly unkind. Had you simply "related your experiences with moms who have a mental illness" it would be a completely different story, nobody would have become defensive but you went way beyond that.. you spoke of Why do they allow mentally ill people to have kids? and that if a person has been institutionalized it shouldn't be allowed. I'm sorry that you did not like being called out on those issues but they were your words, your posts.. you shared an opinion and I shared one in return.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Then let me be more clear; I do not believe that any "entity" should decide who has children, and who does not. In my previous posts, I delineated that view, and stated that I thought it should be based on doctor's recs, and up to the family.
I am no longer friends with that woman. I knew her briefly many years ago, and am no longer in touch with her. Her husband and children are very protective, and do not want anyone from her past in touch with her, and also, I feel that her illness has really changed all of them.

My children do not have a negative view of mental illness, partly because they grew up in the South, where it seems that eccentricity is more tolerated. We had a neighbor who would routinely break into people's houses and rearrange furniture.People would come home and find her on their porch. Her husband did not want to have her committed, and she was harmless. She would do things like leave a card with a bee on it, with a jar of honey. She was not at all frightening to my children. We had another neighbor who wore a hat lined with tinfoil, because she was allergic to the electricity. She hung her magazines out on the clothesline, and had no power in her home. I let my daughter go to Bible study in her home. Please do not think I am making fun of the mentally ill, in relating these experiences. Those two woman saw the world a bit differently, and as far as I know, they did not harm anyone. Maybe they did not like to take their meds, which I know can have awful side effects.

Meds don't cure they treat and a person can come out of "remission" even if they are still taking their meds.

 

[Native New Yorker]

What I think you are just not getting is that your posts were horribly unkind. Had you simply "related your experiences with moms who have a mental illness" it would be a completely different story, nobody would have become defensive but you went way beyond that.. you spoke of Why do they allow mentally ill people to have kids? and that if a person has been institutionalized it shouldn't be allowed. I'm sorry that you did not like being called out on those issues but they were your words, your posts.. you shared an opinion and I shared one in return.

Well, OLG, you seem to have targeted me, so I went back to read my original posts...
I never said anything about allowing women not to have kids....
I said "why is it OK for the mentally ill to have children...then I clarified it further to say those for whom treatment has NOT been successful. Nowhere did I say if they had been institutionalized, because I am aware of successful treatment where that has occurred!
I further said
"Sorry, but I feel that this woman, given her history of instability, should have been sterilized...."

Notice, OLG, that I said this woman, not all women, or all mentally ill women!please read my posts more carefully. I never talked about mandatory sterilization, etc. You are targeting me quite unfairly.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I am just curious if anyone has knowledge of a link that shows which gender in our society has been diagnosed most often to have a mental illness?

Is there a statistical site that breaks it down by gender?

I would really be very interested in reading any information on that and I have tried to search for it but have had no luck.

The only time I see it mentioned much is when a mother has murdered her child.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america/index.shtml

I don't think this is exactly what you were asking about but I couldn't find anything more specific. Some have gender stats listed.. I hope this helps!

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Private Funeral Planned For Baby Scotty
Family Requests Personal Moment Of Silence

POSTED: Thursday, August 6, 2009

http://www.ksat.com/news/20304504/detail.html

R.I.P.

 

[kgeaux]

Then let me be more clear; I do not believe that any "entity" should decide who has children, and who does not. In my previous posts, I delineated that view, and stated that I thought it should be based on doctor's recs, and up to the family.
I am no longer friends with that woman. I knew her briefly many years ago, and am no longer in touch with her. Her husband and children are very protective, and do not want anyone from her past in touch with her, and also, I feel that her illness has really changed all of them.

My children do not have a negative view of mental illness, partly because they grew up in the South, where it seems that eccentricity is more tolerated. We had a neighbor who would routinely break into people's houses and rearrange furniture.People would come home and find her on their porch. Her husband did not want to have her committed, and she was harmless. She would do things like leave a card with a bee on it, with a jar of honey. She was not at all frightening to my children. We had another neighbor who wore a hat lined with tinfoil, because she was allergic to the electricity. She hung her magazines out on the clothesline, and had no power in her home. I let my daughter go to Bible study in her home. Please do not think I am making fun of the mentally ill, in relating these experiences. Those two woman saw the world a bit differently, and as far as I know, they did not harm anyone. Maybe they did not like to take their meds, which I know can have awful side effects.

But, NNY, the DOCTOR is an entity. The FAMILY is an entity. ANY PERSON OTHER THAN THE PERSON WHO IS BEING STERILIZED IS AN "outside" entity.

Let's suppose we are talking about a 22 year old woman. She is bi-polar and suffers from major depressivie disorder. Let's suppose her doctor recommends that she not have children, and her family agrees......this is of course supposing that privacy laws enable the doctor to share his recommendation with her family.....and the 22 year old does not agree to go along with sterilization. Should she be forced? Can we fast forward ten years? This now 32 year old woman is the happy mother of three children, her mental illnesses are controlled by medications. Fast forward another 15 years? Those kids are grown. One is getting a PHD in Quantum Physics, another is a happily married newlywed, the third is about to get his Bachelor's degree.

I KNOW this woman. Her children are a blessing to this world. I can't imagine how sad she (and ME and her husband!) would be without those three lovely, intelligent young people in the world. I'm not going to tell you this family never struggled, because they have. But they have overcome their struggles, they love one another (boy, do they love their momma!) and their struggles have not been much harder than those of most families. Everything they have gone through has cemented their relationships, it has made them stronger and better people. Caring people.

I think it is very easy for us to say some people shouldn't have children. The problem is that if we are wrong about any individual's right to procreate, we have robbed them, their potential children and the future of the world.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I never wanted to start this all up again - I just wanted to provide some closure for Scotty's part in this whole thing.

 

[Fairy1]

I never wanted to start this all up again - I just wanted to provide some closure for Scotty's part in this whole thing.

No worries, WaD. This case has brought an important debate to the forefront. Maybe that is baby Scotty's legacy. It's certainly a difficult issue when viewed through the details of this case, but the family and the mother's caregivers have a heavy cross to bear forever. It's a wake-up call for all of us, I think.

I believe anyone who keeps up with the cases here on WS would say that some people should not be allowed to have children. Most of them are not mentally ill, just evil or lacking whatever it takes to be a good parent.

May this precious little baby boy RIP.

 

[2goldfish]

I have to say I skipped lots of posts in this thread because there's a lot of unkindness floating about, I just wanted to say how terribly tragic, poor baby and mom, it's so horrifying, I had an (undiagnosed) PPD after my second, how shameful and terrible it was for me, so I have such sympathy for things like this, I could have died if it was me and as they say there but for the grace of god... what a horror for them all, her poor sister will never forgive herself and neither will she once she is balanced, how terrible she tried so hard to get help and it never came...

 

[wfgodot]

The saddest tale continues: "shopping for a trip to China."

http://www.sanmarcosrecord.com/local/local_story_316091820.html

 

[believe09]

I read this story as well, wfgo, and it is a HEARTBREAKER. Again, baby was failed by everyone surrounding him...and everyone surrounding him all the way up to the psych institutions are completely overwhelmed. Somehow, this does not resonate with me as a sufficient excuse however....

 

[wfgodot]

I read this story as well, wfgo, and it is a HEARTBREAKER. Again, baby was failed by everyone surrounding him...and everyone surrounding him all the way up to the psych institutions are completely overwhelmed. Somehow, this does not resonate with me as a sufficient excuse however....

A total breakdown, Believe. I lived in S.A. for eight years and moved north just before this happened. The case should be an object lesson in changing how we treat those unfortunate enough to fall prey to these afflictions. Bone-chilling---the case itself, and the "treatment."

 

[zadari]

You'd be amazed how much people don't see when a woman is suffering from postpartum illness. Considering the age of the baby, I'm going to take a guess this mother suffered from postpartum psychosis. Now, before you say it's a bs illness let me tell you, it's very real. It's unfortunate this mother didn't get the help she needed.

The people living in the home may have believed the mother only suffered from baby blues. It can look like that to someone looking from the outside in. Until science figures out a way to read people's minds there's just no way to know the severity of an individual's postpartum illness. Usually not until it's too late.

Having been a sufferer of PPP, I just cannot condemn this woman. I am saddened for both her and her baby. The help is there.. we have to let women know it's okay to tell someone. Even the scariest things you may think or hear, you have to tell someone.. anyone! For you and your baby.

i cannot agree more .. i suffered the very same thing only i got help i didnt kill my baby .. i knew these feelings i was having were wrong .. so i called my dr and they helped me immediately .. prozac saved my and my sons life .. im not a killer,, so i was like wtf am i thinking these horrible thoughts for .i kept hearing myself say things in my head .. she couldve had it much worse than i had it . i thank god i got help .. now with kiera they put me back on prozac right away and nothing like that even crossed my mind .. cuz i had a history for that because of my son .. which btw his name is still MOUTH lol ...the odd thing is none of this or those thoughts i was having ever ever showed thier face while i was pregnant or before that ..ever in my life ..after i had my son is when it all started ..but it was gradual enough to where i was still me .. i was excited about having him so i just didnt get why this even went through my head and i still dont ..it kind came out of left field for me ..

 

[zadari]

I know that mental illness is very real.

I would hope that everyone with mental illness would get help.

I am compassionate to those who suffer from mental illness.

That being said, I simply cannot fathom that a mother who was so mentally ill could decaptitate her infant and cannibalize him. To me, I honestly don't think one rebound back to a mentally healthy state after committing such a heinous act.

no once she is herself again she will want to be dead im sure to be with her son .. she will never again be her ..

 

[mae]

I have to say I skipped lots of posts in this thread because there's a lot of unkindness floating about, I just wanted to say how terribly tragic, poor baby and mom, it's so horrifying, I had an (undiagnosed) PPD after my second, how shameful and terrible it was for me, so I have such sympathy for things like this, I could have died if it was me and as they say there but for the grace of god... what a horror for them all, her poor sister will never forgive herself and neither will she once she is balanced, how terrible she tried so hard to get help and it never came...

Thanks for posting this.

People don't talk about it, and it prevents people from getting help. PPD and PPP are serious issues. There are misunderstandings and confusion about how it effects you. Needless to say it's tragic and horrible when left untreated.

 

[sindydee]

I was just wondering what the baby's father was thinking when he decided to have unprotected sex with a lady that has been diagnosed with a mental illness. Did he not stop to think for one minute about bringing a baby into the world, and if she would be able to cope, and what quality of life it would mean for the baby?

Does anyone know the baby's fathers history?

Quite clearly in this case, the lady was in desperate need of help. Maybe the sister was unable to understand what she was going through, maybe she didnt know how to help. But i can guarnatee that she had no idea that her sister was going to cut and and eat her little baby. It seemed like she was trying to help her sister and we wern't there so we dont know why she gave the baby back to her that night.

This lady had been diagnosed with a mental illness and she was having a breakdown and the hosptial sent her home. Maybe she wasnt taking her meds for whatever reason, but surely the hosptial should have picked up on this? She must have previous notes on her notes telling them of her mental state, im also pretty sure they must have known that she had a 3 week old baby at home. This would raise a red flag to me, so not too sure what went on at the hosptial and what they were thinking sending her home. Not making excuses for her, but I am not in her shoes and because i would class myself as in a normal thinking frame of mind, how could I possibly know what this woman was thinking and experiencing?

Just seems such a very sad case on both sides, as maybe this lady could have been helped and maybe her little boy could still be alive.

Just my opinion.