TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #43

[arkansasmimi]

So the alcove that has been discussed outside the restrooms is the dropped ceiling area with the water fountain. From this photo it is clear to me that area is not visible in any cctv camera. When we see the SP fiddling with the locked door he/she turns and approaches this area walking basically under the field of the (West facing?) camera but still not showing this alcove area. Next we see the exit doors propped open and of course cannot see the alcove or restrooms in that camera either. And it makes sense in looking at that camera view that the doors, especially the door to the right side could be so far to the outer edge of the camera field that it is out of the activation area. This new photo was really helpful.

I agree very helpful, but we have Spann statement that they believed Suspect left same way entered - through metal door. And jmho if was that area why did movement of Suspect leaving not trigger camera? If left from same doors mb entered, would have to go completely around building again in rain. Potentially being seen by anyone passing or driving up. Jmho.
All we know is not much ��

 

[Cannonball3804]

I agree very helpful, but we have Spann statement that they believed Suspect left same way entered - through metal door. And jmho if was that area why did movement of Suspect leaving not trigger camera? If left from same doors mb entered, would have to go completely around building again in rain. Potentially being seen by anyone passing or driving up. Jmho.
All we know is not much ��

One thing we do know is that suspect IS seen after the murder. I don't know if it was Smith or Spann, but one of them DID say that they saw the suspect after the murder moving down a hallway. They said he did not go into any rooms or pause to do anything else other than exit the building. It was right after this that they said he presumably went out the same way he came in.

So... we don't know which camera or cameras caught him, and I'm sure it wasn't every camera if he was moving along at a good clip. But at least one camera did capture the suspect after the murder, and for some reason MPD still won't release that to us. Wonder what it shows?

 

[arkansasmimi]

One thing we do know is that suspect IS seen after the murder. I don't know if it was Smith or Spann, but one of them DID say that they saw the suspect after the murder moving down a hallway. They said he did not go into any rooms or pause to do anything else other than exit the building. It was right after this that they said he presumably went out the same way he came in.

So... we don't know which camera or cameras caught him, and I'm sure it wasn't every camera if he was moving along at a good clip. But at least one camera did capture the suspect after the murder, and for some reason MPD still won't release that to us. Wonder what it shows?

Correct that was Spann on April 18 presser. But later clarification from MPD said not seen again.

They said other is grainy and doing about same (paraphrase on doing) . Same as SWFA tape said rain messed with camera getting tag number . SWFA said other video they have is grainy too.

I can't remember where but think was Johnson said some things only Suspect would know. I still curious on tower pings

 

[SandyQLS]

...RSBM... About where MB was attacked, I can only guess that it isn't very far beyond where that picture ends. Could have been as simple as perp walking out of the women's restroom as Missy walked by, or Missy walking into he restroom while SP was inside. Or maybe the room that is beyond the ladies room. beyond that and it really isn't going to be "at the SW corner of the interior" anymore, IMO.

Thread 37, page 31, No It's Not post:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-37&p=13023265#post13023265

Look through the upper right door glass, just the area below the reflected yellow tape. Blow the photo up. What can you see in the main hallway there? What are the kneeling tech's white gloved hands reaching toward?

 

[rosesfromangels]

One thing we do know is that suspect IS seen after the murder. I don't know if it was Smith or Spann, but one of them DID say that they saw the suspect after the murder moving down a hallway. They said he did not go into any rooms or pause to do anything else other than exit the building. It was right after this that they said he presumably went out the same way he came in.

So... we don't know which camera or cameras caught him, and I'm sure it wasn't every camera if he was moving along at a good clip. But at least one camera did capture the suspect after the murder, and for some reason MPD still won't release that to us. Wonder what it shows?

One thing seems quite probable, and that is that his car would have had blood in it as a result of the attack. Traces would be found, even with vigorous cleaning. I’d be looking at suspected make and models that were sold in that area right after the attack.

 

[Cannonball3804]

Correct that was Spann on April 18 presser. But later clarification from MPD said not seen again.

They said other is grainy and doing about same (paraphrase on doing) . Same as SWFA tape said rain messed with camera getting tag number . SWFA said other video they have is grainy too.

I can't remember where but think was Johnson said some things only Suspect would know. I still curious on tower pings

At what point did they further clarify to say not seen again? The only place I've seen it is in an affidavit. And in context, I take that to mean wasn't seen again on video until after the murder had taken place. I realize it's not clear enough to be 100%, but Spann certainly was clear on April 18, and they had just been looking at the video in order for him to say that. So unless the further clarification was in a direct message from them on Facebook? ...

 

[Cannonball3804]

Thread 37, page 31, No It's Not post:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-37&p=13023265#post13023265

Look through the upper right door glass, just the area below the reflected yellow tape. Blow the photo up. What can you see in the main hallway there? What are the kneeling tech's white gloved hands reaching toward?

I have no idea. Only looking on a laptop, but that is pretty poor quality with the light reflections and all. What is it you think you see?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Thread 37, page 31, No It's Not post:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-37&p=13023265#post13023265

Look through the upper right door glass, just the area below the reflected yellow tape. Blow the photo up. What can you see in the main hallway there? What are the kneeling tech's white gloved hands reaching toward?

That is one where NIN tried to enhance where it look like LEO working. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-37&p=13023035#post13023035 is y post where she enhanced what I marked what I was seeing. MB didn't know about damage to rear or other areas within church. Light switches possibility in that area too, somewhere we found some switches too.

Very possible the glass could have came from the West door glass on interior. Another thought of mine because if you look at that area, IF interior doors closed I not sure would be able see what I think I see. Here is other post where added notations and references
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-37&p=13023053#post13023053
This photo comes from a reporters photo that I zoomed. The original comes from way back zoomed in, also on video. But as I noted actual landmarks in that area.

Here is photo from the July 2016. I know DeDee said some things had changed from what we saw piecing together stuff from over time photos available. We can see in this July photo a camera near vent by Cub Corner sign. Jmho that camera very well could have been there April 18, 2016. While it may looked diff when DeDee visited to her in July (from what we had seen in church photo) it's not to say lots of changes made. Some changes made as nothing in main hallway, could be change of seasons. No need for coat/umbrella type fixture in July when would in April rainy season.
https://www.facebook.com/creeksideD...79345102342/10153593170677343/?type=3&theater

My whole reason for trying to get a rough draft of building layout was for me get my bearings. I was told it was not important by a few, then some of those went and tried make their own. Many of us worked hard on this project and continue. Our diagram(s) have changed overtime as factual information has been learned. Never implied my version was to scale. Only placement of stuff seen on MPD released video. Just think if we could do this just going through the church FB(s) at time, that if wanted Suspect could have done same. But then again could have and possibly/probably did visit actual church. Can't reconcile going in dressed like that and totally blind. Jmho

 

[JnRyan]

One thing seems quite probable, and that is that his car would have had blood in it as a result of the attack. Traces would be found, even with vigorous cleaning. I’d be looking at suspected make and models that were sold in that area right after the attack.

Especially if Missy's murder was not planned. Otherwise the killer may have covered the seat with an old blanket or sheet and the floorboard with cardboard or an old towel. But I'm guessing that didn't happen. I'll bet that car has had detail cleaning a few times since then. And like you said, maybe sold by now.

 

[arkansasmimi]

:thinking: thinking out loud, another point on cameras at time. Yes there was a sign posted at drive entrance of surveillance cameras. If you look at media from that morning, I saw 1 on NW corner, one by door MB entered pointing to exact door. But none seen on rear. (going from memory so may be forgotten one) Point being just a drive through and around building one could get this info.

North side parking is dark by nature of limited lighting. Add land slopes. Jmho was preplanned no matter reason there.
:thinking: I need to review language on outside cameras. Lots of assuming... someone correct e, as I just assuming.. Ea inside camera has separate video (we are told this) so ea outside camera should do same. Thunderstorm, downpouring rain, lightening flashes (as seen also in SWFA video) jmho it's still very possible, I say even probable they have some video from church. :happydance: no where in SWs do they reference cameras than to say neither MB or Suspect seen again.

The one writing a probable cause affidavit, can't lie. But as stated on it, it's not meant to include all information/evidence known, just enough for probable cause for what needing SW for.

My hopes are that's some of hold back MPD has.

Another thing reviewing who helped... Ellis County crime scene collection team, and Mansfield had someone too I will get link.

ETA https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...eline-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=12581000#post12581000 May 20, 2016 press conference

Johnson does state "exterior cameras worked on intermittent basis... on day of murder we don't have any exterior footage from cameras outside"
Jmho could maybe have some from prior that will help if or when Suspect appeared. So I may be wrong, but again haven't seen that in SW or remember rather.

And from same press conference... they really round their time language"approximately" and "few" . We are told exact times from SWFA. And again vague, we are told approximate time Suspect first seen on video is about ten til 4. "It's well over an hour before killer is believed to have come onto the scene at the church" :thinking: well over hour? True and just under 2 hours from first seen on video per Spann. Hmm

And Johnson says the Altima was "last lead that hasn't been exhausted from that video canvassing" They retrieved video surveillance from area residences and business in area.

And interesting not sure if words chosen on purpose or general, "due to rain - rain obscured the details that you normally see when cars pull into the driveway" Johnson was speaking of cameras at SWFA, I will assume means leaving also but could be argued either way. I believe Texas tagged vehicles as tags front and back, but also some sticker on windshield. Possibly that sticker area what was getting at on "driving into parking lot".

 

[arkansasmimi]

SWFA Surveillance 4-18-2016
SWFA 61,345 views
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Published on Dec 5, 201617 different camera angles
Entered at 1:58am
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:thinking:
ETA https://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...0#post12581000 May 20, 2016 press conference

Johnson does state "exterior cameras worked on intermittent basis... on day of murder we don't have any exterior footage from cameras outside"
Jmho could maybe have some from prior that will help if or when Suspect appeared. So I may be wrong, but again haven't seen that in SW or remember rather.

And from same press conference... they really round their time language"approximately" and "few" . We are told exact times from SWFA. And again vague, we are told approximate time Suspect first seen on video is about ten til 4. "It's well over an hour before killer is believed to have come onto the scene at the church" well over hour? True and just under 2 hours from first seen on video per Spann. Hmm

And Johnson says the Altima was "last lead that hasn't been exhausted from that video canvassing" They retrieved video surveillance from area residences and business in area.

And interesting not sure if words chosen on purpose or general, "due to rain - rain obscured the details that you normally see when cars pull into the driveway" Johnson was speaking of cameras at SWFA, I will assume means leaving also but could be argued either way. I believe Texas tagged vehicles as tags front and back, but also some sticker on windshield. Possibly that sticker area what was getting at on "driving into parking lot".

 

[arkansasmimi]

At what point did they further clarify to say not seen again? The only place I've seen it is in an affidavit. And in context, I take that to mean wasn't seen again on video until after the murder had taken place. I realize it's not clear enough to be 100%, but Spann certainly was clear on April 18, and they had just been looking at the video in order for him to say that. So unless the further clarification was in a direct message from them on Facebook? ...

Yes from direct message and post removed.

 

[Cannonball3804]

Yes from direct message and post removed.

I think they lied. There's something on that video after the murder. Something that keeps them from releasing the aftermath footage even to this day.

 

[arkansasmimi]

DeDee https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-34&p=12713872#post12713872

NW Corner

Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
What makes you say the restrooms are room 15 and 16?

According to my notes, coming into the interior from the canopied space, the doors are numbered on the left side of the hall as follows:

Room 15 (men's) and Room 16 (women's) are placed inside a deeply recessed alcove that is meant to keep some privacy among those entering and exiting the Rest Rooms. A wheelchair is currently parked on the W side when standing inside of the alcove area, with plenty of extra space, without interfering with the members going into or out of the men's Room 15.

Continuing, up the Main Hallway, that is flush with the alcove walls, on the left, is the unnumbered Family Restroom, followed by Room 17 (Library), Room 18 (Office) and Room 20 (Office). Then, the main entrance/exit is located next, on the left.

When entering the Church at the Main Entrance, currently, in what was once the "Cub Room", is now where a receptionist to the immediate right in the Room with a desk and a phone that one would pass by before turning right to go down the Main Hallway toward the Canopied Area Corner of the Church.

The last thing along that NW wall, is the alcove where the men's and women's restrooms are located side by side; not one in front of the other. It is my opinion this alcove is where the SP was lying in wait for Missy's entrance. However, the SP, imho, was vigilantly standing, not crouching, in this hiding space.

This is in reference to Jethro version of church layout. I love me some DeDee and she knows :loveyou:

Jmho De has her directions turned around. Room 17 the library was long noted on Creekside website. That is on South hallway. So I am confused maybe that the 15 & 16 restrooms are in SE corner (rear of building from MB entrance same side) Maybe she got confused typing her post. Lord knows happens to me quite often. But I have to respectfully disagree with her placement as listed.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Yes from direct message and post removed.

I think they lied. There's something on that video after the murder. Something that keeps them from releasing the aftermath footage even to this day.

Thing is not sure a lie, but definitely lots of confusing language. Note this ss https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-34&p=12717436#post12717436
Interesting thread to read back on.

Cannonball when did you change your mind back on video? Serious question.

I think what Jethro has said here is pretty darn compelling. And I was firmly in the "they said they have additional video that they have not released" camp - until I listened to the 4/22 presser with a fresh set of ears.

I think he's right. And when you think about it, the make and model of cameras being used at the church is probably identical, whether it's an outside camera or an interior camera. Same type of camera. So if there were going to be issues with motion detection / field of view settings, why would those issues ONLY affect the outside cameras? So I've come around to Jethro's way of thinking that what has been released is probably all they have, with the exception of video of MB entering the building that we know they withheld out of respect for the family. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-34&p=12717556#post12717556

*Still looking but I was pretty sure it was you that posted that clarification

 

[wildebeest]

BBM

I am basing this solely on memory so please forgive me if I am wrong. I recall locals saying that CCoC was "remodeled" (or changed) after MB's murder. Some rooms were renumbered while others that were previously connected were separated. I believe that the restrooms in the SW were part of this "remodel". It is my (fuzzy) recollection that the toddler rooms used to be located between the entrance located on the west side of the building and the restrooms. The access of the restrooms (and the toddler rooms) was one of the things that changed after Missy's murder. Would any of the locals like to chime in? Is the current restroom layout in the SW corner the same as the day MB was murdered? I apologize in advance for any confusion.

Cannonball, do you have thoughts after going to CCoC? Aside from being surprised by the openness of the SW entrance, was there anything else that jumped out at you? Do you have any sense for where MB would have been attacked?

Always had the feeling the murder occurred in the Ladies restroom. Due to privacy concerns, SP knew there would be no camera there.

IMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

At what point did they further clarify to say not seen again? The only place I've seen it is in an affidavit. And in context, I take that to mean wasn't seen again on video until after the murder had taken place. I realize it's not clear enough to be 100%, but Spann certainly was clear on April 18, and they had just been looking at the video in order for him to say that. So unless the further clarification was in a direct message from them on Facebook? ...

Yes from direct message and post removed.

I think they lied. There's something on that video after the murder. Something that keeps them from releasing the aftermath footage even to this day.

Thing is not sure a lie, but definitely lots of confusing language. Note this ss https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-34&p=12717436#post12717436
Interesting thread to read back on.

Cannonball when did you change your mind back on video? Serious question.

I think what Jethro has said here is pretty darn compelling. And I was firmly in the "they said they have additional video that they have not released" camp - until I listened to the 4/22 presser with a fresh set of ears.

I think he's right. And when you think about it, the make and model of cameras being used at the church is probably identical, whether it's an outside camera or an interior camera. Same type of camera. So if there were going to be issues with motion detection / field of view settings, why would those issues ONLY affect the outside cameras? So I've come around to Jethro's way of thinking that what has been released is probably all they have, with the exception of video of MB entering the building that we know they withheld out of respect for the family. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-34&p=12717556#post12717556

*Still looking but I was pretty sure it was you that posted that clarification

Found it!!! And was wrong about being repeated. But right about you, Cannonball asking and they stated the SW was correct,
"Ok, I went ahead and reached out to MPD asking for clarification. Turns out I was wrong - Spann was incorrect and the search warrant was correct. The suspect is NOT seen on video after the murder " https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-41&p=13145365#post13145365

 

[Cannonball3804]

Found it!!! And was wrong about being repeated. But right about you, Cannonball asking and they stated the SW was correct,
"Ok, I went ahead and reached out to MPD asking for clarification. Turns out I was wrong - Spann was incorrect and the search warrant was correct. The suspect is NOT seen on video after the murder " https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-41&p=13145365#post13145365

Well sure enough. I don't even remember asking that, but I obviously did. So scratch the whole suspect seen after the murder thing. Way to go in finding that, Mimi!

 

[DeDee]

DeDee https://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2#post12713872

NW Corner
Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
What makes you say the restrooms are room 15 and 16?
According to my notes, coming into the interior from the canopied space, the doors are numbered on the left side of the hall as follows:

Room 15 (men's) and Room 16 (women's) are placed inside a deeply recessed alcove that is meant to keep some privacy among those entering and exiting the Rest Rooms. A wheelchair is currently parked on the W side when standing inside of the alcove area, with plenty of extra space, without interfering with the members going into or out of the men's Room 15.

Continuing, up the Main Hallway, that is flush with the alcove walls, on the left, is the unnumbered Family Restroom, followed by Room 17 (Library), Room 18 (Office) and Room 20 (Office). Then, the main entrance/exit is located next, on the left.

When entering the Church at the Main Entrance, currently, in what was once the "Cub Room", is now where a receptionist to the immediate right in the Room with a desk and a phone that one would pass by before turning right to go down the Main Hallway toward the Canopied Area Corner of the Church.

The last thing along that NW wall, is the alcove where the men's and women's restrooms are located side by side; not one in front of the other. It is my opinion this alcove is where the SP was lying in wait for Missy's entrance. However, the SP, imho, was vigilantly standing, not crouching, in this hiding space.

This is in reference to Jethro version of church layout. I love me some DeDee and she knows :loveyou:

Jmho De has her directions turned around. Room 17 the library was long noted on Creekside website. That is on South hallway. So I am confused maybe that the 15 & 16 restrooms are in SE corner (rear of building from MB entrance same side) Maybe she got confused typing her post. Lord knows happens to me quite often. But I have to respectfully disagree with her placement as listed.

Well, this was fairly soon after my visit. The main error I see is that I wrote the NW wall instead of the SW wall.

The Cub Room became a receptionist's area, nicely painted in a pale yellow and a lady was on the phone sitting behind the desk when I entered the Main Entrance.

The Rooms are not numbered. Actually, it is the doors that are numbered. This week I've been told there is no Family Restroom even though I saw it with my own eyes. It was adjacent to the two Restrooms, Ladies 16 and Men's 15, located in the alcove. I cannot explain why restrooms are numbered.

Another error, I agree the Library was beautiful and well lit along the South corridor. It was not numbered. It was not a deep room and recently I placed it as 01 on Jethro's map.

When SP comes back up the S hall, heading to the Western hallway and stops to use his light to see the number on the wall, to SPs right hand side, those double doors lead into the the Sanctuary.

I will not live long enough to understand the numbering system of the Church layout.

In fact, we can ignore this entire post and forget everything written here for I have been so enmeshed with these rooms and numbers the past week that I need to visit my priest to assure I haven't lost my mind somewhere along the way.

 

[Cannonball3804]

Well, this was fairly soon after my visit. The main error I see is that I wrote the NW wall instead of the SW wall.

The Cub Room became a receptionist's area, nicely painted in a pale yellow and a lady was on the phone sitting behind the desk when I entered the Main Entrance.

The Rooms are not numbered. Actually, it is the doors that are numbered. This week I've been told there is no Family Restroom even though I saw it with my own eyes. It was adjacent to the two Restrooms, Ladies 16 and Men's 15, located in the alcove. I cannot explain why restrooms are numbered.

Another error, I agree the Library was beautiful and well lit along the South corridor. It was not numbered. It was not a deep room and recently I placed it as 01 on Jethro's map.

When SP comes back up the S hall, heading to the Western hallway and stops to use his light to see the number on the wall, to SPs right hand side, those double doors lead into the the Sanctuary.

I will not live long enough to understand the numbering system of the Church layout.

In fact, we can ignore this entire post and forget everything written here for I have been so enmeshed with these rooms and numbers the past week that I need to visit my priest to assure I haven't lost my mind somewhere along the way.

I asked the church member today specifically about a "Family Restroom". He said there isn't one, unless it's unmarked.