TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #43

[Jethro4WS]

BBM

Hi Jethro! Not only that. What does s(he) do after working that lock? Nothing. Did not even check, if his work paid out..hmm

-Nin

As if SP had zero intention of getting through that door. As if it was more important to make a tool mark than anything else. One thing that should be noted about that sequence at that particular door is that the motion cameras stop and start four (4) times!

 

[No it's not]

As if SP had zero intention of getting through that door. As if it was more important to make a tool mark than anything else. One thing that should be noted about that sequence at that particular door is that the motion cameras stop and start four (4) times!

Yep..Not exactly sure, what is stored in that room. Is there any chance SP is trying to keep the door from being unlocked rather than trying to open it? It looks to me, as if that plate is being bent towards the lock. Just a thought.

-Nin

 

[Jethro4WS]

You are certainly free to understand that sentence as you wish, but my point is that there is room to see it as having a different meaning than you are giving it.

"We walked through the south breezeway doors into the main foyer to the north side of the church."

The question is, what is the antecedent that "to the north side of the church" is describing? And the answer is, we can't be sure, but it can be either of 2 possibilities. That phrase could be describing the foyer, as to its size, or it could be describing the walk, as to its extent.

In your interpretation of the antecedent, the sentence is saying that the walk was through the doors, into the foyer, and continued on to the north side.
In a different understanding of the antecedent, the sentence is saying that the walk was through the doors into the foyer, which was an area that extended to the north side.

Same exact words, but 2 very different meanings, and either is possible.

HOWEVER - we then have to ask what else we know from other sources, and make sure our interpretation fits with those other statements. To me, that pushes us to the conclusion that the sentence is saying that the walk was through the doors into the foyer, which was an area that extended to the north side - - but that the only thing about the walk we are being told is that it was through the door and into the foyer to some unknown extent.

I agree that the phrasing leads to multiple interpretations. A comma, maybe, would have been useful. Or even something more professional like referring to entrances, hallways, and such based on their approximately absolute direction/location such as north, south, east, west and not saying things like "main" and other relative or subjective terms. I think we pretty much had the same issue with the one warrant affidavit that said main entry when they mean the entry at the southwest. I have been rather stunned by how "loose" many things were phrased in the various warrants and statements. I can imagine if they brought in new investigators those investigators would have to talk to the person that wrote it to understand what exactly they meant. Something that easily could have been avoided if only they would have taken an extra minute or three to be more precise in their attestations in the affidavits or in statements that they made. One can only imagine what the various reports are worded like that we haven't seen chock full of imprecise terms that require time to go back over with the person who wrote it and their memory or a walk-through against a map of the crime scene.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

For those who have a suspect in mind. What’s your suspects motive?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I agree that the phrasing leads to multiple interpretations. A comma, maybe, would have been useful. Or even something more professional like referring to entrances, hallways, and such based on their approximately absolute direction/location such as north, south, east, west and not saying things like "main" and other relative or subjective terms. I think we pretty much had the same issue with the one warrant affidavit that said main entry when they mean the entry at the southwest. I have been rather stunned by how "loose" many things were phrased in the various warrants and statements. I can imagine if they brought in new investigators those investigators would have to talk to the person that wrote it to understand what exactly they meant. Something that easily could have been avoided if only they would have taken an extra minute or three to be more precise in their attestations in the affidavits or in statements that they made. One can only imagine what the various reports are worded like that we haven't seen chock full of imprecise terms that require time to go back over with the person who wrote it and their memory or a walk-through against a map of the crime scene.

Other things to consider in regards to the latest snippet :

JMO, but We don’t know who wrote it. I have assumed it was a crime scene investigator and/or tech considering the writer stated “Sergeant Tim Scott led Ellis County CST Kringen and I into the church” . CST meaning crime scene technician. It is then later stated after viewing the body, “we were asked to process the truck under the awning” I’ve thought about this statement quite a bit and came to the conclusion that who ever wrote that narrative wasn’t necessarily there to process the body, but to process the truck as evidence.

Considering that, we don’t know all of the in betweens of what happened before this statement was made. The statement was noted with an arrival time of 7:53 am, nearly 3 hours after the initial 911 calls. There are many things that could have happened in those 3 hours. Therefore, when Missy’s body was viewed somewhere near the north side of the church, hours later, we CANNOT conclude that is where she was murdered. We were never officially told what time the JOP pronounced Missy deceased, nor do we have any official timelines for LE movements, on press releases, except for one, with the last time at 5:10 am which noted LE arrived to the scene. Her body could have been moved by campers or EMTS from the murder location to a closer area which provided adequate space in order to perform CPR etc. It’s also been stated that when LE arrived, EMTS were working on Missy, so we know some type of life saving measures were taken.

Another thing to consider is media outlets were outside snapping pictures of the church as well as flying overhead. We don’t know if Missy’s body was perhaps moved to an area where the media wouldn’t be able to view her, in order to protect her privacy and respect the family.

In addition, Missy’s body and the crime scene would have been treated as two separate things. Any processing of forensics on her body, would have occurred at the coroners office. There is a chance that perhaps, her body was moved by investigators (after taking investigative photos) to the area described in the snippet, in order for processing of the physical crime scene where the attack occurred.

All in all, I truly feel like that snippet doesn’t provide much in regards to where Missy was killed. It does provide us with an idea of specific names of LE who were on scene, but other than that there are too many variables to even conclusively say that the area where Missy’s body was viewed, as noted by the snippet, is where she was attacked and murdered. JMO MOO

 

[ocgrad]

You are certainly free to understand that sentence as you wish, but my point is that there is room to see it as having a different meaning than you are giving it.

"We walked through the south breezeway doors into the main foyer to the north side of the church."

The question is, what is the antecedent that "to the north side of the church" is describing? And the answer is, we can't be sure, but it can be either of 2 possibilities. That phrase could be describing the foyer, as to its size, or it could be describing the walk, as to its extent.

In your interpretation of the antecedent, the sentence is saying that the walk was through the doors, into the foyer, and continued on to the north side.
In a different understanding of the antecedent, the sentence is saying that the walk was through the doors into the foyer, which was an area that extended to the north side.

Same exact words, but 2 very different meanings, and either is possible.

HOWEVER - we then have to ask what else we know from other sources, and make sure our interpretation fits with those other statements. To me, that pushes us to the conclusion that the sentence is saying that the walk was through the doors into the foyer, which was an area that extended to the north side - - but that the only thing about the walk we are being told is that it was through the door and into the foyer to some unknown extent.

For my 2 cents I agree with this. I believe what we are used to referring to as a main hallway he is referring to as "the main foyer (that goes) to the north side". That's his name for that main hallway. I don't think he meant he went to the north side. And then upon being in that main foyer he saw her body. I still don't think that alone nails down whether it was in the rest room alcove or in Rm 2 or in the West entry foyer.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Hasn’t it been stated many, many times that her body was found in the SW corner of the building? The SW corner of the building makes sense to me. She parked her truck under the covered entrance on the south side of the building and the foyer or main entrance is on the west side of the building. Correct? The church isn’t that big so I don’t really understand why knowing exactly where she was located is so significant. Will someone please help me understand? TIA

 

[lonetraveler]

You know, I've followed this thread since the very beginning. I've suffered through all the building coordinates, over and over an over again. Multiple, multiple, multiple times and have struggled to try and understand why it is so important on where TB was killed.
There have been hundreds of theories of where in the church building where and why.
Theories of was it the true coordinates vs. someone's theory of their on compass of coordinates of whatever the church offered up. Enough already. Except for the fact that SP killed her outside of the line of sight of the video camera, what exactly is there to discuss, FGS?

Except for the question of if anyone could have seen the murder, including the security cameras, what the hell does it matter?

 

[janesmith787]

Hasn’t it been stated many, many times that her body was found in the SW corner of the building? The SW corner of the building makes sense to me. She parked her truck under the covered entrance on the south side of the building and the foyer or main entrance is on the west side of the building. Correct? The church isn’t that big so I don’t really understand why knowing exactly where she was located is so significant. Will someone please help me understand? TIA

Agreed...I understand wanting to figure things out, but to me it doesn’t matter exactly where.

What matters is she was killed in the church, and it wasn’t caught on video. Whether or not perp knew ahead of time exact location doesn’t change the fact they they were there for 1 reason and they were “successful.”

Again JMO...but, I’m still amazed almost 2 years later people could still think this was random.

Justice rides a slow horse, but she always arrives...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You know, I've followed this thread since the very beginning. I've suffered through all the building coordinates, over and over an over again. Multiple, multiple, multiple times and have struggled to try and understand why it is so important on where TB was killed.
There have been hundreds of theories of where in the church building where and why.
Theories of was it the true coordinates vs. someone's theory of their on compass of coordinates of whatever the church offered up. Enough already. Except for the fact that SP killed her outside of the line of sight of the video camera, what exactly is there to discuss, FGS?

Except for the question of if anyone could have seen the murder, including the security cameras, what the hell does it matter?

I’m not sure why it matters either. My post just above yours is basically the same as yours. I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking the same thing.

 

[Bootsctr]

Hasn’t it been stated many, many times that her body was found in the SW corner of the building? The SW corner of the building makes sense to me. She parked her truck under the covered entrance on the south side of the building and the foyer or main entrance is on the west side of the building. Correct? The church isn’t that big so I don’t really understand why knowing exactly where she was located is so significant. Will someone please help me understand? TIA

If I recall correctly, yes. She did park her truck under the porte cochere, but it is my understanding she had to go to the front of the church to open those doors with a key. So, when she entered the church did she go straight to the SW corner to open those doors and start unloading her equipment, or did she head toward the kitchen which would have been north? Or did she head to the restroom?

IF she went to the kitchen first she must have seen some of the damage caused by SP.... And even if she didn't go to the kitchen but headed to the SW corner to open those doors and start unloading her equipment, even then she must have noticed something. Broken glass, holes in the walls, something. She had left her phone in the truck, so she never had the chance to call 911 if she noticed something was horribly wrong when she went entered the church.

I think she was targeted and after watching a special on Stalkers (Christina Grimmie, Pauley Perrett, and Ivanka Trump), and seeing how active Missy was on social media, I think someone was stalking her. Otherwise, if SP heard her entering the church, or even saw her headlights of her truck as she pulled in under the porte cochere, he would have had a chance to quickly leave the same way he came in without ever encountering Missy. There would be no need for a confrontation with Missy if he wanted to escape. Missy was a strong lady, but I don't think she would have intentionally confronted Swat Perp.

To me, the location of where her body was found is important because that tells me that Swat Perp was there for a purpose and that purpose was to attack and kill Missy Bevers. Where she was found was in a place that Swat Perp (he or she) could have quietly hidden until Missy appeared and maybe she was distracted by looking at the mess SP made in the church.

I think this person stalked her. He or she knew she would arrive alone at the church. He or she knew her routine and whether she would go to the bathroom or to the kitchen first, and he or she knew where to hide to catch Missy by surprise and bludgeon her to death with a hammer that likely came from the church itself.

Like Dizzy Gal stated, if this person was truly "robbing" the church, in 45 minutes before Missy arrived he would have had a pile of goodies stacked by his planned exit from the building (the kitchen).

I hope this makes sense. I have followed Missy's case from the beginning and found the discussion of where her body was actually found to be fascinating; as I think it made a difference in determining if the attack on Missy was planned, or simply a case of her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[CoolDude234]

Playing devil's advocate, some have argued that where Missy was found could support whether the attack was targeted or not. If Missy was found in one of the bathrooms, maybe she startled SP and that provoked the attack. I've seen others theorize that if she was found in the main hallway, it is more likely that it she was targeted -- the idea being that SP wouldn't have had to fight their way out of a small room to get away from her. They could've just ran away. Not saying I buy either one, but I know a handful of people have stated that their theories depend on where she was found.

 

[KaaBoom]

I may be wrong but I believe it was in WS that I read that the campers could see the body looking through the doors from under the awning of the church from the outside. They thought at first the body was a rolled up piece of carpet in the hallway. JMHO

I don't believe anything to that effect has ever been reported. The only thing I have seen reported is that her body was found in the southwest corner of the building and Camp Gladiator participants discovered her body. Anything else about where or how her body was found I believe is speculation by posters here.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

If I recall correctly, yes. She did park her truck under the porte cochere, but it is my understanding she had to go to the front of the church to open those doors with a key. So, when she entered the church did she go straight to the SW corner to open those doors and start unloading her equipment, or did she head toward the kitchen which would have been north? Or did she head to the restroom?

IF she went to the kitchen first she must have seen some of the damage caused by SP.... And even if she didn't go to the kitchen but headed to the SW corner to open those doors and start unloading her equipment, even then she must have noticed something. Broken glass, holes in the walls, something. She had left her phone in the truck, so she never had the chance to call 911 if she noticed something was horribly wrong when she went entered the church.

I think she was targeted and after watching a special on Stalkers (Christina Grimmie, Pauley Perrett, and Invanka Trump), and seeing how active Missy was on social media, I think someone was stalking her. Otherwise, if SP heard her entering the church, or even saw her headlights of her truck as she pulled in under the porte cochere, he would have had a chance to quickly leave the same way he came in without ever encountering Missy. There would be no need for a confrontation with Missy if he wanted to escape. Missy was a strong lady, but I don't think she would have intentionally confronted Swat Perp.

To me, the location of where her body was found is important because that tells me that Swat Perp was there for a purpose and that purpose was to attack and kill Missy Bevers. Where she was found was in a place that Swat Perp (he or she) could have quietly hidden until Missy appeared and maybe she was distracted by looking at the mess SP made in the church.

I think this person stalked her. He or she knew she would arrive alone at the church. He or she knew her routine and whether she would go to the bathroom or to the kitchen first, and he or she knew where to hide to catch Missy by surprise and bludgeon her to death with a hammer that likely came from the church itself.

Like Dizzy Gal stated, if this person was truly "robbing" the church, in 45 minutes before Missy arrived he would have had a pile of goodies stacked by his planned exit from the building (the kitchen).

I hope this makes sense. I have followed Missy's case from the beginning and found the discussion of where her body was actually found to be fascinating; as I think it made a difference in determining if the attack on Missy was planned, or simply a case of her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I’ve followed since the beginning as well. This case is the reason why I became a member. I understand everything you’re saying and I get that it’s important to know where she was found, but we know she was found in the SW corner. Why does this keep coming up?

 

[No it's not]

I find it interesting, that during one of the PCs it was confirmed, that tools (plural) were found at the CS consistent with tools seen being used by the SP.

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

I’ve followed since the beginning as well. This case is the reason why I became a member. I understand everything you’re saying and I get that it’s important to know where she was found, but we know she was found in the SW corner. Why does this keep coming up?

I think it keeps coming up, because the location can possibly offer a reason for the attack depending on what one was to believe i.e. targeted vs burglary/ vandalism gone wrong. Open area would not warrant a kill IMO, as the perp could have just run away esp. since costumed up as LE. Walled-in Room or niche would more explain a deadly defense of SP IMO.

All IMO of course.

-Nin

 

[GA_Peach]

I find it interesting, that during one of the PCs it was confirmed, that tools (plural) were found at the CS consistent with tools seen being used by the SP.

-Nin

Yes. It is also noteworthy how many of those same tools were listed on the SW for BWH. I wonder what was left behind and what was taken by SP.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

This is my depiction of the areas of the church, using an arial photo of CCoC. I cropped picture 3

in half along the front peak of the WEST entrance, showing which portions of the church would be considered Northern (pic 1) and Southern (pic 2). I then cropped pic 2 in half at the peak of the worship center area, the highest point of the roof, in order to come up with what would be the SOUTHWEST corner of the building (pic 4). When I did that, it gave me a better idea of what areas of the church are considered the SW corner. If we were to use the vague statement made by LE stating Missy was found in the SW corner of the church, it would be in any area that falls within pic 4, which includes half of the front west entrance. It’s also crucial to note that LE blocked off the front West doors not allowing anyone to use those doors and made all personnel enter using the SW porte cochere entrance.

I know some of you don’t want to focus on where Missy was found and I understand. However, it matters to me in order to completely rule out the possibility of a robbery gone bad.

Considering the snippet shared the other day, the area that was noted to be where an official viewed Missy’s body, IMO that area fits into the SW corner of the church, when you take the church to scale and divide it into 4 equal quadrants. Thus, I can now rule out any chance of a random burglary gone wrong because the sp was not cornered in a closed room and caught off guard. JMO.

 

[SteveS]

We're still seeing that "targeted or not" comes down to our own biases, and nothing more. Even the idea that specific location X or Y, if true, would tell us whether it was "targeted or not" flows from a series of assumptions based on a starting belief one way or another.

Because, indeed, SP hiding in any and every spot possible can be surmised for completely opposite purposes,
(1) at any hiding spot, SP may have been trying to remain undiscovered until MB left and they could finish their robbery and escape (and then oops, MB happened to turn the wrong way and trap them where they were hiding, a fight ensued, and MB gets killed for one reason or another), or
(2) at that hiding spot, SP was there waiting to attack MB without warning.

Exact same spot. Exact same actions. All in hiding. An attack followed. Yet the difference is intent - which we can't know without knowing who SP was.

IOW picking either choice flows from whatever assumption has already been made as to intent, and then the evidence not-coincidentally becomes evidence that is seen in a way that supports the assumption. Circular. And that's true no matter which way you see it.

But the location evidence, by itself, as well as everything else we know, is really not leading us anywhere. Frustrating but true.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Hasn’t it been stated many, many times that her body was found in the SW corner of the building? The SW corner of the building makes sense to me. She parked her truck under the covered entrance on the south side of the building and the foyer or main entrance is on the west side of the building. Correct? The church isn’t that big so I don’t really understand why knowing exactly where she was located is so significant. Will someone please help me understand? TIA

The reason why it is significant is because MPD has refused to be anymore specific about where in the church she was killed. They had been asked more than once by the media that question and they said they don't want to say. They were intentionally vague about it. All of this despite the fact that there were a number of people that would know where and it was not something only the killer would know. Hence why it seems to have more significance than it otherwise should.