TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #33

[WannaBDetective]

AND why they're so tight-lipped as well.

You've got to hand it to them. There's probably 30-40 LEO (total rough guess) that have significant inside skinny and you don't hear much leakage (that we are aware of).

 

[ocgrad]

Or was in the bathroom.

Just a question. If video the actual murder was blocked by the SP, his/her back to the camera, MB body blocked from view by SP and/or furniture, sign, open door, would that allow LE to fairly say they do not have the actual murder on camera?

 

[ocgrad]

You've got to hand it to them. There's probably 30-40 LEO (total rough guess) that have significant inside skinny and you don't hear much leakage (that we are aware of).

Also the campers who found her body have leaked very little to amount to just rumor and hearsay. In fact all the campers and some church personnel had some knowledge but all have been very tight lipped.
Kudos!

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[WannaBDetective]

Yeah! Very strange. LE would make a terrible witness in a trial if they don't know height...Their credibility feels ify, although I'm sure they're doing their best!

Just like any organization, the quality of work varies from person to person, location to location. I have considered that if I were the defense attorney on this one, I'd take one of their height announcements that was farthest away from the perps actual height and hammer at it. "If the height's not right, you must requite"

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Yes, I am local. I can't say much, but they thought that BEFORE the stolen guns. If you think about it, the perp had inside knowledge about the alarm system, etc. I think they are suspecting reserves.

The stolen guns arrest happened before Missy was killed. And the alarm info wasn't secret...alarm permits are required and are public record, so all they had to do was check to see if the church had a permit.

What are reserves? Like reserve cops? Is Midlothian big enough to have cops on reserve?

 

[TeaTime]

Just a question. If video the actual murder was blocked by the SP, his/her back to the camera, MB body blocked from view by SP and/or furniture, sign, open door, would that allow LE to fairly say they do not have the actual murder on camera?

Sure. They can pretty much say whatever they want to the public and carefully choosing words for public consumption is not uncommon.

 

[al66pine]

I have never used Wikipedia as a source but this is as good an explanation of direct and circumstantial (indirect) evidence as one could ask for. Black's can be difficult as the intended audience are lawyers, Wikipedia speaks to the lay person and does a much better job of explaining it. Thanks.

You're welcome, TeaTime. Not an infallible source but often helpful, imo.

 

[TeaTime]

Charter companies have the ability to contact customers on their charters, including sending a boat out to their location. Charter employees also need to be able to reach management in case of emergencies and vise versa. Taking a fishing charter for a few days does not cut you off from all communication.

Yes, maybe so, but my post was referencing a privately owned boat not chartered for the trip.

 

[ocgrad]

The stolen guns arrest happened before Missy was killed. And the alarm info wasn't secret...alarm permits are required and are public record, so all they had to do was check to see if the church had a permit.


What are reserves? Like reserve cops? Is Midlothian big enough to have cops on reserve?

The guns were stolen before the murder but I don't think they knew the whole size and scope of that at the time of the murder because the 2nd arrest happened after the murder. The first arrest happened after the deputy pawned a couple of the gun's in Ferris. After that they started to realize how many more guns had been taken and sold.
I think Ellis County Sheriff Dept is a large enough agency to have reserves. Not sure about MPD, but just because someone says they believe it is LE doesn't mean they believe it is MPD, could be Dallas, Fort Worth, Oceanside CA, Lincoln City OR...
I believe MPD Johnson said there was no alarm permit at CCofC.

 

[Cannonball3804]

I fell behind from this morning. Did anyone answer the question of whether the church has an alarm system, and if so, did the perp disable or disarm it?

To me this is a critical thing to know. If an alarm was present and he disarmed, then it's obvious targeting. If he disabled it, it could still be targeting but could also be B&E by a seasoned burglar.


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[DietDrPepper]

What are reserves? Like reserve cops? Is Midlothian big enough to have cops on reserve?

I assumed the reference was to Ellis County Reserve Deputy Program, but I don't know anything.

 

[TeaTime]

DrPam - is there someone in local LE that walks like SP?

 

[ocgrad]

I fell behind from this morning. Did anyone answer the question of whether the church has an alarm system, and if so, did the perp disable or disarm it?

To me this is a critical thing to know. If an alarm was present and he disarmed, then it's obvious targeting. If he disabled it, it could still be targeting but could also be B&E by a seasoned burglar.


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The building did not have an alarm, and the outside surveillance cameras were not working, police Capt. John Spann said.

 

[al66pine]

Also the campers who found her body have leaked very little to amount to just rumor and hearsay. In fact all the campers and some church personnel had some knowledge but all have been very tight lipped.
Kudos! Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Altho disappointing to some peeps here, I'm glad ^ ppl w actual, accurate info about some aspects of crime scene remain tight lipped.
Not giving the defense team something to create doubt w.

 

[Batbrat]

I know this has been discussed, but I just watched again the BB interview with the media on 4/19. At the 10:35 mark, he says, "The police estimate that this person is about 6 ft tall."

Anyone want to weigh in as to how the LE can be so off on their height estimate from viewing the video - the day after the murder - when that information is so critical? Especially when experts came in later and determine the height to be 5'2 - 5'7? HUGE DIFFERENCE!

[video=youtube;lnBJ17dtx48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnBJ17dtx48[/video]

It would seem that LE have a lot of experience viewing surveillance video and able to estimate height more accurately than they did.

Yes it is a huge difference. I'll weigh in. I believe LE's original observation and estimate was pretty accurate. I can't say what they based it on, perhaps it was a cursory guesstimate. In an effort to narrow down the measurements to a more exacting range, they called in a team of video experts to do an independent analysis.

When researching this exact subject, I learned this kind of forensic analysis is much more complex than meets the eye. Height estimation alone requires multiple techniques, at least three different kinds of math, extensive knowledge of perspective and how it relates to and links geometry and videography, and even knowledge of anatomy to some degree. Even if you have access to the scene, and some spiffy tech equipment, you must still know and apply all the above. Measurements - no matter how accurate - are simply not enough.

If you're going to reconstruct the scene with scale items or people of varying heights, you must reconstruction the scene identically. The same cameras and settings in the exact same location, the same items/placement, etc. Being off by a single degree at a distance of 20 feet can throw your measurement off by more than 4 inches.

I truly hope the crack LE team applied all of these techniques. I hope they have this level of knowledge of the subject. I assume they do, but have no way of knowing. Even considering all of this, it's possible there was a miscalculation here or there. I have checked, re-checked, re-re-checked my measurements, as have others. I'm very confident with my numbers and completely baffled at LE's numbers. As I've said before, I hope someday I will learn how they arrived at their numbers.

 

[x_files]

I fell behind from this morning. Did anyone answer the question of whether the church has an alarm system, and if so, did the perp disable or disarm it?

To me this is a critical thing to know. If an alarm was present and he disarmed, then it's obvious targeting. If he disabled it, it could still be targeting but could also be B&E by a seasoned burglar.


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I don't believe there was an alarm system.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

This may have been discussed so I apologize, but in regards to the following statement from the SW:

"At approximately 0418 hours, the victim Terri Bevers is observed entering the building through the main door under the awning area. The video shows Terri Bevers walking toward where the suspects location. Neither the suspect nor victim, were seen again on video. The victim was later found deceased at the south west comer of the interior of the building."

This tells me LE knows where the SP was at approx 4:18, because they say Missy is walking towards his/her location. To me, for them to know this, they have the SP on video at 4:18. Do we know the time stamps on the videos that have already been released?

Good point! Though to be exact, this tells me that LE knows where SP was last seen on video as MB was walking down the hall. He could have been hiding there since 4:15 or even earlier for all we know, and so they maybe wouldn't have him on video at 4:18.

JMO but here's the scenario I envision: I think MB drove up about 4:16, possibly unloaded one or two items by the SW portico door (we saw unloaded stuff in photo in earlier threads by her gray car, though I suppose that could've been LE equipment) - then entered by the W (main) doors at about 4:18, turned right, and walked down the hallway directly towards the SW corner camera until out of view (in the vestibule) where she'd planned to open up the exterior doors for her equipment. That vestibule was also where perp was hiding off camera for however many minutes as he lay in wait--(I'm guessing at least since he spotted her headlights entering that driveway about 4:16am--though maybe earlier if he had an accomplice tipping him off as to her precise movements.) He ambushed her there quickly, then pressed the horizontal panic bar hardware and exited the exterior doors. Due to panic hardware design (discussed extensively in prior threads), no need for key or interior unlocking after main entrance has been entered, though access from outside would still be locked.

That would explain:

1. the attack being off-camera (vestibule was out of camera range) but still in the SW interior corner of the building

2. her being 'in plain view' of the campers - who likely saw her through the glass doors but (due to exterior-locked panic hardware) still had to enter the front unlocked doors to reach her

3. Swatperp not being seen again on camera (he exited the exterior SW portico doors).


The hallway or restroom area is tempting to contemplate, and I may be wrong, but I've ruled it out for two reasons:

1. If SP was, as LE has described, laying in wait for her ambush-style, he could be 100% sure she'd walk into that vestibule (as opposed to the restroom which would be more of a maybe, however likely)

2. If SP attacked her in the restroom or hallway outside of the restroom, he would at some point be captured on motion-activated cameras making his way out of the building (unless tunneling out or breaking through the brick walls). Breakage of that glass table in the hallway would also have been caught on camera as we see that table in camera footage. It is 'in range.' Therefore, the attack wasn't near the table or it'd have been caught on camera.

3. The inner vestibule doors and stationary windows alongside them would quite likely be broken in a vestibule attack involving a gun if perp attacks her as she enters the vestibule. (Okay, the gun is just my pet theory for reasons outlined many thread-moons ago ...but again, there IS plenty of glass breakage possible in a vestibule-with-glass-doors murder scene, whether with hammer or gun.)

JMO, but 25+ threads later, that is still the only scenario to me that fits with all three of these statements we've been given.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

(thread 32. A closed thread)

I stated:

Since I am not signed up on Facebook,
am I correct in believing that:
you have to be "connected" to the person on Facebook,
in order to see their postings (even when they are set to "public".)
Now isn't that correct?
[end]

Cannonball3804

If someone is set to public, then their posts are going to be visible to anyone who brings up Facebook and searches up Their name. Obviously if the person had a FB account and was following MB, they might see her post pop up in their FB news feed.

But even if they don't have a FB account at all, they could see anything she posted if she didn't have privacy on; they would just have to navigate to her FB page in order to see it.

[The thread "closed",
before I could get back to this, and
say "Thank You", for your reply.]

(I am now adding, this clarification. I didn't explain it clearly, before)
What I meant was/what I was referring to was:
I have seen people's "public" profile, shown,
but then you can't read anything else, unless you "connect".

(Since your "reply", I now get it.)

- There is an option where you can make "both" public,

- There is an option where you can make, just, your profile "public"
, but have to "connect", to read the other info. (postings, etc.)

- There is an option to make both, private.

On one's personal profile, the options for things you post are:
1. Private
2. Friends only
3. Friends of friends (so if you post a photo of your friend, all their friends can see it as well, even ones you aren't directly connected with)
4. Public

All profile pictures and "cover" pictures (the one that stretches across the top of one's page) are public. If you change the pic, you can then set the old pic to another setting, but while it's your profile pic it has to be public.

Many of Missy's posts were set to "Public" because they were related to Camp Gladiator. It would appear that she used only her personal page as communication with the campers.

There are also Facebook Groups, which can be made by anyone, and have varying levels of privacy. It appears the other instructor AJ Tucker had both a personal FB page and a group page.

One can also have a "fan page", for celebrities etc.

 

[Jmd1231]

No insult needed and I didn't need to look online for anything. DNA in your example only proves that there was sexual contact, not that there was sex without consent. The presence of DNA in and of itself does not prove rape (lack of consent). To prove rape one must also prove lack of consent which can sometimes be accomplished with the sworn testimony of the victim or proof that the victim is incapable of giving consent.

Direct evidence requires no inference, it proves a fact without proof of any other fact in issue. DNA can therefore not prove rape. It can only prove the presence of DNA. An inference can be made that it was deposited without the consent of the victim if there is other proof that the victim did not or could not consent.

I do not think you really do understand what I am talking about. But, as you no doubt know, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is the burden of proof in criminal cases and the determination of whether something is direct or circumstantial evidence does not depend on whether the case is criminal or civil in nature.

So, are you insinuating that only eye witness and actual video of a crime being committed are the only possible pieces of direct evidence? If you are, that is not correct. If that's not what you are saying, then I apologize.

 

[GeeEm]

DrPam said:
07-10-2016 10:24 AM

The more I have read and studied, the more I think this person knew what they were doing. I don't think that would include a house wife (IMO). I do think she was targeted, by an expert, probably for someone else. What bothered me was, how would they pay for it and not get caught? I did some reading and read about "Bitcoin" that is not traceable. Anyway, I do think a hit was definitely possible.


My thoughts


Since you are the local do you still comply with your thoughts on this post? A hit from whom?

Can you enlighten the group of the knowledge that you do know?

Thank you very much‼️

JMHO 🐮

BUMPING UP to see if DrPam the local will please reply

Thanks