TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #34

[Cannonball3804]

this part was what I focused on..
Police say that they believe the still-unknown killer may have been in contact with one of the phones identified in the warrant based on very specific tips received after the Midlothian Police Department posted video of the suspect walking around and vandalizing the church before killing Bevers with puncture wounds to her chest and head.

im not familiar with the observer...and haven't seen this anywhere else..

There is nothing new or novel in what the Observer published May 5, because all they did was go back to the search warrants and regurgitate what they found there, with "police say" in front of it. It was the SWs that used all of that language.

 

[Camerabug]

There is nothing new or novel in what the Observer published May 5, because all they did was go back to the search warrants and regurgitate what they found there, with "police say" in front of it. It was the SWs that used all of that language.

You are right, of course. I realize that now. Funny how, when removed from the legal document it seemed more 'user friendly' and clicked in my brain. I'd better go back and re-read all the warrants and just say to myself 'Police say' and then read on!

 

[Jethro4WS]

In my opinion, W2 is not room 21. Room S1 (room with double Dutch doors) on Jethro's map should be Room 21.

Additionally, K1 on Jethro's map should be Room 6. The layout of the bathrooms by K1 is incorrect. This is a classroom that opens onto the north corridor with a Dutch door directly across from the north alcove of double doors to the auditorium. The bathrooms are small and open into Room 6. They are on its west wall.

Rooms 6 and 21 are for young children. Both have Dutch doors.
Room 6 is for K-2nd grade.
Room 21 is for 3-5 year-olds.

Do you have a picture that shows both bathrooms that should be there? And the class room. What you posted before was a room that was at least 20 feet wide with no bathrooms in sight and then a photo of a smaller carpet in front of a bathroom and I don't know how that could fit on the west side of the room and not be in the other photo. And then there is the entrance from the Kitchen into there which doesn't make much sense to me if it is a classroom.

K1 can't be any wider than 20 feet because the kitchen is 36 feet wide and Room 8 is 40 feet wide. There is a 1 foot separator for the counters and rollup windows between the Kitchen and Room 8. The sanctuary is 90 feet on the one side of that hall. The other side of the hall is 97 feet - 7 feet longer. That is why in the opening sequence we see the easternmost door to room 8 extended past the sanctuary side on the right with the door almost centered on the East hall. You can tell it extends 7 feet because the column at the east end of room 8 aligns to the NE corner column of the sanctuary. From the Dad day video you can see that area and it has a set of double windows (6 feet wide total) and 1 foot of space immediately right of that column. So for me it is simply a real estate issue. Not much room to have bathrooms and a classroom in the same space.

I have seen the Creekside pics of that hall recently and I know where the one door is but I really think it is bathrooms there with a different layout than I have - they are arbitrary in dimensions on my map but placed where they are by where the plumbing stacks are on the roof. The westernmost stack is right at the NW corner on the North side of the hall. And the other is 10 feet to the right. They must be there.

With the Kitchen (K3) connected to K1 via a door the only reasonable thing I could put there was a room they might use for kitchen related stuff. I haven't seen anywhere in the place where they keep all their plates, bowls, dishes, any refridgerators, dishwashers so I figured they must have a place for that along with maybe somewhere were they might sit and plan out any kitchen related stuff they work on. Then again, maybe they don't have any of that stuff.

As for Room 21 I only labelled that by the photo of that room based on what the apparent age of the children were (3-5) in that photo. It is the one with the butterfly rug. The column in that room aligns with the center of the large X's you see in photos of the west side of the sanctuary between the doors.

Room 6 I believe to be W1 on my map. The photos there (snow scene) are of a large room. The column seen in the one photo of the whole set up aligns with the NW corner column of the sanctuary. There is no other window configuration on the building that has 28 feet of room visible and only one window that can be seen other than there.

The one picture you did post as room 6 I actually believe to be E1 on the map. But the other room with the bathroom is elsewhere. There is a plumbing stack for the South Stage area and I thought it could be in there. There is also a plumbing stack in the NEC area on my map, perhaps they have something there (that we haven't seen from any hallway photos).

 

[Scout]

Do you have a picture that shows both bathrooms that should be there? And the class room. What you posted before was a room that was at least 20 feet wide with no bathrooms in sight and then a photo of a smaller carpet in front of a bathroom and I don't know how that could fit on the west side of the room and not be in the other photo. And then there is the entrance from the Kitchen into there which doesn't make much sense to me if it is a classroom.

K1 can't be any wider than 20 feet because the kitchen is 36 feet wide and Room 8 is 40 feet wide. There is a 1 foot separator for the counters and rollup windows between the Kitchen and Room 8. The sanctuary is 90 feet on the one side of that hall. The other side of the hall is 97 feet - 7 feet longer. That is why in the opening sequence we see the easternmost door to room 8 extended past the sanctuary side on the right with the door almost centered on the East hall. You can tell it extends 7 feet because the column at the east end of room 8 aligns to the NE corner column of the sanctuary. From the Dad day video you can see that area and it has a set of double windows (6 feet wide total) and 1 foot of space immediately right of that column. So for me it is simply a real estate issue. Not much room to have bathrooms and a classroom in the same space.

I have seen the Creekside pics of that hall recently and I know where the one door is but I really think it is bathrooms there with a different layout than I have - they are arbitrary in dimensions on my map but placed where they are by where the plumbing stacks are on the roof. The westernmost stack is right at the NW corner on the North side of the hall. And the other is 10 feet to the right. They must be there.

With the Kitchen (K3) connected to K1 via a door the only reasonable thing I could put there was a room they might use for kitchen related stuff. I haven't seen anywhere in the place where they keep all their plates, bowls, dishes, any refridgerators, dishwashers so I figured they must have a place for that along with maybe somewhere were they might sit and plan out any kitchen related stuff they work on. Then again, maybe they don't have any of that stuff.

As for Room 21 I only labelled that by the photo of that room based on what the apparent age of the children were (3-5) in that photo. It is the one with the butterfly rug. The column in that room aligns with the center of the large X's you see in photos of the west side of the sanctuary between the doors.

Room 6 I believe to be W1 on my map. The photos there (snow scene) are of a large room. The column seen in the one photo of the whole set up aligns with the NW corner column of the sanctuary. There is no other window configuration on the building that has 28 feet of room visible and only one window that can be seen other than there.

The one picture you did post as room 6 I actually believe to be E1 on the map. But the other room with the bathroom is elsewhere. There is a plumbing stack for the South Stage area and I thought it could be in there. There is also a plumbing stack in the NEC area on my map, perhaps they have something there (that we haven't seen from any hallway photos).

I have several pictures. Will post when I'm back on wifi.

 

[Camerabug]

They had already collected video by the time of the first presser on 4/18. Now whether they had viewed it yet, I don't know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLtwTK2hq8&feature=youtu.be

At about the 9:20 mark, Spann says, "Businesses that were within eyesight of the church, we've gone and collected video. We've got video from a couple of the businesses around there."

Of course one of the businesses would be SWFA. I wonder where else?

I see a Mo and Hari's Bistro and a Whataburger, but they are a long ways from the church.

 

[Lizzysun]

You are right, of course. I realize that now. Funny how, when removed from the legal document it seemed more 'user friendly' and clicked in my brain. I'd better go back and re-read all the warrants and just say to myself 'Police say' and then read on!

There is nothing new or novel in what the Observer published May 5, because all they did was go back to the search warrants and regurgitate what they found there, with "police say" in front of it. It was the SWs that used all of that language.

Thanks Camerabug for posting link. I'd not read it before; it was helpful to me.

This article stated COD, I may be mistaken, I don't think any other article has directly stated that Missy's COD was puncture wounds to the head and chest.

"Police say that they believe the still-unknown killer may have been in contact with one of the phones identified in the warrant based on very specific tips received after the Midlothian Police Department posted video of the suspect walking around and vandalizing the church before killing Bevers with puncture wounds to her chest and head." BBM

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/...ubled-marriage-and-online-flirtations-8277296


There was a "Daily Mail" article that stated, "Terry ‘Missy’ Bevers was found dead with puncture wounds to her head and chest at the Creekside Church of Christ in Midlothian, Texas, in April as she set up an exercise class." BBM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rd-financial-struggles-strange-messages-got-k


The "Observer" article states COD and the DAILY MAIL says she was found with wounds, which leaves room for a GSW. Maybe it semantics, but those are two different statements of which I draw two different conclusions.

All above is JMO.

 

[windrower]

Well, the bigger question would be, where do you think Room 12 is? To see the numerals "1" and "2" it that order the way we see in the video it can only be one other place and that would be the South Stage area. But then you have to have multiple doors on the sanctuary side and no doors in view down the hall on the room side of that hall. That doesn't make sense to me.

Whatever the case the door in the picture I posted that is on the SE corner of the east hall can't be room 12. If it were, instead of seeing the "1" and then the "2" we would see the "2" and then the "1" in the video. For the same reason it can't be at the North Stage either as the numerals would be in the wrong order when viewing the video.

bbm

I have tried to follow and keep up with the floor plan\doors\entry\etc. discussion, and greatly appreciate the effort several of you have invested into drawings, etc. I keep thinking I'll spend some time with all the photos I've accumulated and really study the existing floor plans, because something about the two main drawings shared with WS don't feel quite right to me. But I keep tripping over rl stuff.

Maybe I'm having a brain flip, but, Jethro4WS, how\why would the numerals ever show in the wrong order? Wouldn't the camera have to be recording a mirrored view for that to be the case? Doesn't the camera "see" just as we would be seeing if we were in that position?

Though I'm not a member of Creekside cofC, I worship at churches of Christ, and most (if not all) churches of Christ have a baptistry at the front end of the sanctuaries\auditoriums, usually with changing rooms off to each side, and which probably each have a door to an adjacent hallway. I don't think the southside wall of the Creekside sanctuary\auditorium will have very many doors or entryways into the auditorium, maybe one entry at the west corner of the southside hall, and one more toward the easterly corner of the southside hall.

Also, most of us church of Christ-ers do not consider the church BUILDING as holy or sanctified or any different than any other building. (We consider His people to be the church.) So I would assume most Creekside church-goers would NOT have a problem with an exercise class anywhere in the building, even the auditorium. At my home church, at the end of services, we push all the chairs to the front to make an open space in the auditorium for a yoga class which meets in our building two or three times during the week. We also house the local food bank, have one office space used by a family counselor and another used as a temp office, and meeting rooms used by community groups. We are glad to see our building being utilized and used instead of sitting empty for much of each week.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Missy held her CG class in the auditorium on a rainy morning. I am on the fence about where she was found. I do think if she was in the sw corner of the auditorium, it explains how the perp was not seen again on video, and how perp left the same way they came in without being on video, and why maybe some doors were left open. A quick dash across the hall to an open door, and the cameras would not have time to activate and catch the exit from the auditorium.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

bbm

I have tried to follow and keep up with the floor plan\doors\entry\etc. discussion, and greatly appreciate the effort several of you have invested into drawings, etc. I keep thinking I'll spend some time with all the photos I've accumulated and really study the existing floor plans, because something about the two main drawings shared with WS don't feel quite right to me. But I keep tripping over rl stuff.

Maybe I'm having a brain flip, but, Jethro4WS, how\why would the numerals ever show in the wrong order? Wouldn't the camera have to be recording a mirrored view for that to be the case? Doesn't the camera "see" just as we would be seeing if we were in that position?

Though I'm not a member of Creekside cofC, I worship at churches of Christ, and most (if not all) churches of Christ have a baptistry at the front end of the sanctuaries\auditoriums, usually with changing rooms off to each side, and which probably each have a door to an adjacent hallway. I don't think the southside wall of the Creekside sanctuary\auditorium will have very many doors or entryways into the auditorium, maybe one entry at the west corner of the southside hall, and one more toward the easterly corner of the southside hall.

Also, most of us church of Christ-ers do not consider the church BUILDING as holy or sanctified or any different than any other building. (We consider His people to be the church.) So I would assume most Creekside church-goers would NOT have a problem with an exercise class anywhere in the building, even the auditorium. At my home church, at the end of services, we push all the chairs to the front to make an open space in the auditorium for a yoga class which meets in our building two or three times during the week. We also house the local food bank, have one office space used by a family counselor and another used as a temp office, and meeting rooms used by community groups. We are glad to see our building being utilized and used instead of sitting empty for much of each week.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Missy held her CG class in the auditorium on a rainy morning. I am on the fence about where she was found. I do think if she was in the sw corner of the auditorium, it explains how the perp was not seen again on video, and how perp left the same way they came in without being on video, and why maybe some doors were left open. A quick dash across the hall to an open door, and the cameras would not have time to activate and catch the exit from the auditorium.

i'm with you on churches attitudes. Christians are the church body. Not the building. I saw a picture a few days ago of the CG campers with their mats down in the hall floor of CoC. Sorry my iPads is very time consuming to find stuff on. It was this thread or the previous one. If anyone has time, could a websleuther find the pic for windrower? I'm semi-retired but work, grandkids and even adult kids keepin me busy lately if next week is better I'll look for it.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I've missed a couple of threads so forgive me if this has been covered. Great work with the church layout but I'm wondering something: if we knew which room Missy was found in, or which door the perp used, how would it help us find out whodunnit?

I was hoping the case would have been cracked by now but it seems not. I'm afraid I just don't think the police have a clue with nothing happened over 3 months later :sigh:

 

[Batbrat]

Also, most of us church of Christ-ers do not consider the church BUILDING as holy or sanctified or any different than any other building. (We consider His people to be the church.) So I would assume most Creekside church-goers would NOT have a problem with an exercise class anywhere in the building, even the auditorium.

I find this to be significant in other ways as well. Thank you for posting.

Several people posting here have mentioned their shock/disgust that someone would commit a crime "on holy ground", etc., often asking what kind of person that would be. Upon reading these types of comments I wondered how it could be that people seemingly found the chosen location of the crime more disturbing than the crime itself. I researched it some, and found out that according to many religious theologians, most Christian tenets list murder below other things such as apostasy, religious hypocrisy, etc.

I'm not familiar with CoC, but your post helped me make sense of the differences in beliefs/tenets across the Christian spectrum as far as "holy ground".

Anyone else want to weigh in on this particular subject? If so, please be as objective as possible. I'd prefer to leave emotions out of the discussion, as I'm hoping to learn some things about the motivations of the faithful while avoiding getting into any heated religious debates.

 

[Jethro4WS]

bbm

I have tried to follow and keep up with the floor plan\doors\entry\etc. discussion, and greatly appreciate the effort several of you have invested into drawings, etc. I keep thinking I'll spend some time with all the photos I've accumulated and really study the existing floor plans, because something about the two main drawings shared with WS don't feel quite right to me. But I keep tripping over rl stuff.

Maybe I'm having a brain flip, but, Jethro4WS, how\why would the numerals ever show in the wrong order? Wouldn't the camera have to be recording a mirrored view for that to be the case? Doesn't the camera "see" just as we would be seeing if we were in that position?

Though I'm not a member of Creekside cofC, I worship at churches of Christ, and most (if not all) churches of Christ have a baptistry at the front end of the sanctuaries\auditoriums, usually with changing rooms off to each side, and which probably each have a door to an adjacent hallway. I don't think the southside wall of the Creekside sanctuary\auditorium will have very many doors or entryways into the auditorium, maybe one entry at the west corner of the southside hall, and one more toward the easterly corner of the southside hall.

Also, most of us church of Christ-ers do not consider the church BUILDING as holy or sanctified or any different than any other building. (We consider His people to be the church.) So I would assume most Creekside church-goers would NOT have a problem with an exercise class anywhere in the building, even the auditorium. At my home church, at the end of services, we push all the chairs to the front to make an open space in the auditorium for a yoga class which meets in our building two or three times during the week. We also house the local food bank, have one office space used by a family counselor and another used as a temp office, and meeting rooms used by community groups. We are glad to see our building being utilized and used instead of sitting empty for much of each week.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Missy held her CG class in the auditorium on a rainy morning. I am on the fence about where she was found. I do think if she was in the sw corner of the auditorium, it explains how the perp was not seen again on video, and how perp left the same way they came in without being on video, and why maybe some doors were left open. A quick dash across the hall to an open door, and the cameras would not have time to activate and catch the exit from the auditorium.

The doors in the sanctuary, at least from the stage back to the west side of the church have all been seen in photos. They are there. There is a room on each side of the stage. There are doors from those rooms to the hallway that runs behind the sanctuary.

As for the "1" "2" stuff. Let me try a diagram. If this don't help, I don't know what to do clarify it. The diagram shows what happens depending on which corner of a hallway a two digit numbered door is located.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I found this pic (maybe it has been posted before but I don't remember seeing it). This shows CG working out in front of the Worship center. You can see their mats and weights. MB May have been heading towards this area
to unload equipment or unlock front doors.

Windrover-- found the pic! It was this thread.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

bbm

I have tried to follow and keep up with the floor plan\doors\entry\etc. discussion, and greatly appreciate the effort several of you have invested into drawings, etc. I keep thinking I'll spend some time with all the photos I've accumulated and really study the existing floor plans, because something about the two main drawings shared with WS don't feel quite right to me. But I keep tripping over rl stuff.

Maybe I'm having a brain flip, but, Jethro4WS, how\why would the numerals ever show in the wrong order? Wouldn't the camera have to be recording a mirrored view for that to be the case? Doesn't the camera "see" just as we would be seeing if we were in that position?

Though I'm not a member of Creekside cofC, I worship at churches of Christ, and most (if not all) churches of Christ have a baptistry at the front end of the sanctuaries\auditoriums, usually with changing rooms off to each side, and which probably each have a door to an adjacent hallway. I don't think the southside wall of the Creekside sanctuary\auditorium will have very many doors or entryways into the auditorium, maybe one entry at the west corner of the southside hall, and one more toward the easterly corner of the southside hall.

Also, most of us church of Christ-ers do not consider the church BUILDING as holy or sanctified or any different than any other building. (We consider His people to be the church.) So I would assume most Creekside church-goers would NOT have a problem with an exercise class anywhere in the building, even the auditorium. At my home church, at the end of services, we push all the chairs to the front to make an open space in the auditorium for a yoga class which meets in our building two or three times during the week. We also house the local food bank, have one office space used by a family counselor and another used as a temp office, and meeting rooms used by community groups. We are glad to see our building being utilized and used instead of sitting empty for much of each week.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Missy held her CG class in the auditorium on a rainy morning. I am on the fence about where she was found. I do think if she was in the sw corner of the auditorium, it explains how the perp was not seen again on video, and how perp left the same way they came in without being on video, and why maybe some doors were left open. A quick dash across the hall to an open door, and the cameras would not have time to activate and catch the exit from the auditorium.

i found the pic. I posted it on #577 (just one post up). 11frogs originally posted it.

 

[Scout]

IMO, these are all pictures of Room 6.






This is the Dutch door to enter Room 6:

 

[Scout]

In this photo, you can see the driveway through the windows and the grouping of trees just beyond. Note the same in the satellite image:



Edited "sidewalk" to "driveway".

 

[Camerabug]

I'm wondering if anyone can point me to the thread where we were looking at "eyes" of various POI vs SP when (s)he looked into the camera. TIA....

 

[Lupe]

I'm wondering if anyone can point me to the thread where we were looking at "eyes" of various POI vs SP when (s)he looked into the camera. TIA....

Is it the Miniscratch on YouTube? June 24 I think.

Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk

 

[Scout]

IMO, these are all pictures of Room 6.

View attachment 99070
View attachment 99071
View attachment 99072


This is the Dutch door to enter Room 6:

View attachment 99073

Also note that this room has cafeteria style tables designed for small children. This is another reason I'm convinced it is near/attached to the kitchen.

 

[tazman1160]

I find this to be significant in other ways as well. Thank you for posting.

Several people posting here have mentioned their shock/disgust that someone would commit a crime "on holy ground", etc., often asking what kind of person that would be. Upon reading these types of comments I wondered how it could be that people seemingly found the chosen location of the crime more disturbing than the crime itself. I researched it some, and found out that according to many religious theologians, most Christian tenets list murder below other things such as apostasy, religious hypocrisy, etc.



I'm not familiar with CoC, but your post helped me make sense of the differences in beliefs/tenets across the Christian spectrum as far as "holy 9ground".

Anyone else want to weigh in on this particular subject? If so, please be as objective as possible. I'd prefer to leave emotions out of the discussion, as I'm hoping to learn some things about the motivations of the faithful while avoiding getting into any heated religious debates.

Like Windrower, I also worship with the church of Christ and concur that we do not find the building itself "holy." (The "church" is the people, not the building.... The building is just a place the CHURCH meets with each other.)

As far as Christian tenants, Christians believe the great commandments are 1) love and obedience to GOD, and 2) love of your fellow man:
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these commandments hang all the Law and Prophets (these are the commandments that the old testament law and prophets/prophesies hang on )
— Matthew 22:35-40."
In other words, if you love GOD and love your neighbor as you should, then the other "thou shalt nots" will fall into place.
So, as far as murder possibly being a lesser sin to someone (the perp?) than religious hypocrisy, for instance, that would not make sense because it goes against the great commandment of LOVE which is supposed to be the primary focus of Christianity. Of course, the perp is evil, so no telling what he has going on in his head as far as justification.

 

[SteveS]

Christians believe murder is wrong, as God says. Most see it as very very VERY wrong, or about as wrong as you can get. And none would condone it, in any way. But I doubt the murderer was evaluating where "murder" is, on a list of wrongs, when he did this evil. When we let our selfish desires reign, and all that matters is to satisfy "me," then God's standards don't matter and anything is possible.