UID Victim: The Female Toddler, UP9704, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[Vivalor]

I'm gonna go with this just being a dumping spot. I know lots of sk like to revisit....but seems to me this guy just found a spot where he could dump bodies for years. Why change it up and take the chance of getting caught?
Also, was thinking about how IF this is just one guy and he changed it up by first dismembering the bodies to just dumping them....then maybe just maybe he lived some where that the only way he could get them out with out being noticed he had to put them in suite cases or take them out in small loads. And if he moved it may have made it easier for him to just dump the whole body. Because I do find it odd that a sk would switch up the way he likes to kill....seems like all the sk I have read up on have a fetish of some kind with the way they kill and what they do with the bodys. So if this guy switched it up then that leads me to believe it was purely for dumping purposes.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I'm gonna go with this just being a dumping spot. I know lots of sk like to revisit....but seems to me this guy just found a spot where he could dump bodies for years. Why change it up and take the chance of getting caught?
Also, was thinking about how IF this is just one guy and he changed it up by first dismembering the bodies to just dumping them....then maybe just maybe he lived some where that the only way he could get them out with out being noticed he had to put them in suite cases or take them out in small loads. And if he moved it may have made it easier for him to just dump the whole body. Because I do find it odd that a sk would switch up the way he likes to kill....seems like all the sk I have read up on have a fetish of some kind with the way they kill and what they do with the bodys. So if this guy switched it up then that leads me to believe it was purely for dumping purposes.

You were not here when this was discussed like two years ago. So, all I can say to this is only IMO:

1.) Manorville and LISK are NOT the same person. A staging dismemberer like Manorville is already a fully blown signature in itself. So why would he go back, how could he go back and being a complete rookie again after he honed his skills already for ten years? And dismemberers usually develop from stabbers and slashers, while stranglers like LISK can develop or switch more with beater type SKs and rapists. Manorville got street corner prostitutes, LISK Craigslist escorts (which changes all communication parameters in the first place). Manorville used torsos to make a statement und thus gave his victims some individual importance, LISK created a drive-by trophy yard, the single victim is of no impoartance, the collection of trophies, of victories is.
Bottom line: different guys

2.) The GB4 site is not only about disposal. If you want to dispose a body, hack it to pieces, put the pieces in the regular trash. Or spread them over a wide area if you have the chance. Put a weight on them, sink them in the sea. The last thing, you do, is to drop them along a road (unless you have other reasons beyond mere disposal).
A clustered dump site means the intent to revisit, even on the risk, that LE can find the whole collection at once. So it is always a balance between risk and need. But there are differences, what SKs do when they revisit. Necrophilia seems to be pretty popular. But some just sit there and talk to their victims, share thoughts. Whatever, most of those activities demand for hours of privacy. The GB4 dump site can't offer that. Basically it's a mere drive-by dump site. Which tells me, the perpetrator doesn't sit there for long hours. It is good enough for him to drive by and trigger the memories. That is pride behavior, trophy behavior, not any form of twisted relationship idea. But also not mere disposal. It's the way, he defined "success", like a hunter with stag heads on the wall.

As said before, this is IMO.

 

[Vivalor]

You were not here when this was discussed like two years ago. So, all I can say to this is only IMO:

1.) Manorville and LISK are NOT the same person. A staging dismemberer like Manorville is already a fully blown signature in itself. So why would he go back, how could he go back and being a complete rookie again after he honed his skills already for ten years? And dismemberers usually develop from stabbers and slashers, while stranglers like LISK can develop or switch more with beater type SKs and rapists. Manorville got street corner prostitutes, LISK Craigslist escorts (which changes all communication parameters in the first place). Manorville used torsos to make a statement und thus gave his victims some individual importance, LISK created a drive-by trophy yard, the single victim is of no impoartance, the collection of trophies, of victories is.
Bottom line: different guys

2.) The GB4 site is not only about disposal. If you want to dispose a body, hack it to pieces, put the pieces in the regular trash. Or spread them over a wide area if you have the chance. Put a weight on them, sink them in the sea. The last thing, you do, is to drop them along a road (unless you have other reasons beyond mere disposal).
A clustered dump site means the intent to revisit, even on the risk, that LE can find the whole collection at once. So it is always a balance between risk and need. But there are differences, what SKs do when they revisit. Necrophilia seems to be pretty popular. But some just sit there and talk to their victims, share thoughts. Whatever, most of those activities demand for hours of privacy. The GB4 dump site can't offer that. Basically it's a mere drive-by dump site. Which tells me, the perpetrator doesn't sit there for long hours. It is good enough for him to drive by and trigger the memories. That is pride behavior, trophy behavior, not any form of twisted relationship idea. But also not mere disposal. It's the way, he defined "success", like a hunter with stag heads on the wall.

As said before, this is IMO.

Ahh durr I didn't even look at the dates this was posted. My bad.
But I do agree with that these are two different guys I was just stating the maybes or what ifs.
But if gb4 put them there for drive by visiting. Then think it's safe to say he lives in LI and not just a summer visitor?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Ahh durr I didn't even look at the dates this was posted. My bad.
But I do agree with that these are two different guys I was just stating the maybes or what ifs.
But if gb4 put them there for drive by visiting. Then think it's safe to say he lives in LI and not just a summer visitor?

Look at WHEN he killed. He is seasonal.
I just told on another thread, I need a week break. Too many headaches, sorry!

 

[CriminalMinds]

You were not here when this was discussed like two years ago. So, all I can say to this is only IMO:

1.) Manorville and LISK are NOT the same person. A staging dismemberer like Manorville is already a fully blown signature in itself. So why would he go back, how could he go back and being a complete rookie again after he honed his skills already for ten years? And dismemberers usually develop from stabbers and slashers, while stranglers like LISK can develop or switch more with beater type SKs and rapists. Manorville got street corner prostitutes, LISK Craigslist escorts (which changes all communication parameters in the first place). Manorville used torsos to make a statement und thus gave his victims some individual importance, LISK created a drive-by trophy yard, the single victim is of no impoartance, the collection of trophies, of victories is.
Bottom line: different guys

2.) The GB4 site is not only about disposal. If you want to dispose a body, hack it to pieces, put the pieces in the regular trash. Or spread them over a wide area if you have the chance. Put a weight on them, sink them in the sea. The last thing, you do, is to drop them along a road (unless you have other reasons beyond mere disposal).
A clustered dump site means the intent to revisit, even on the risk, that LE can find the whole collection at once. So it is always a balance between risk and need. But there are differences, what SKs do when they revisit. Necrophilia seems to be pretty popular. But some just sit there and talk to their victims, share thoughts. Whatever, most of those activities demand for hours of privacy. The GB4 dump site can't offer that. Basically it's a mere drive-by dump site. Which tells me, the perpetrator doesn't sit there for long hours. It is good enough for him to drive by and trigger the memories. That is pride behavior, trophy behavior, not any form of twisted relationship idea. But also not mere disposal. It's the way, he defined "success", like a hunter with stag heads on the wall.

As said before, this is IMO.

I,too,believe(99%) 2 diff killers--
IMVHO, very spot-on, well done, sir

 

[deedee21]

Fred&edna The babys mother was found dead several miles to the west by Jones Beach. She one of the unidentified. The baby could have been smothered or placed there. In my opinion its a homocide.

 

[deedee21]

I would not be surprised if the killer was this childs father.

 

[Vivalor]

Fred&edna The babys mother was found dead several miles to the west by Jones Beach. She one of the unidentified. The baby could have been smothered or placed there. In my opinion its a homocide.

Do you mean just placed there well it was alive? I've heard that before but was thinking at 18 months and older it could defiantly crawl or walk. The whole fact that this baby was found really disturbs me. Wish there was more info about it.

 

[deedee21]

Do you mean just placed there well it was alive? I've heard that before but was thinking at 18 months and older it could defiantly crawl or walk. The whole fact that this baby was found really disturbs me. Wish there was more info about it.

The mother is a victim of a serial killer. The baby was wrapped in a blanket. ME does not know the cause of death. That is why it was not ruled a homicide. That does not mean the baby wasnt killed though.

 

[Vivalor]

The mother is a victim of a serial killer. The baby was wrapped in a blanket. ME does not know the cause of death. That is why it was not ruled a homicide. That does not mean the baby wasnt killed though.

Ahh I see what your saying now.

 

[Just K]

It's also possible that the toddler died due to some sort of neglect or some natural cause like SID. The fact that she was left near two other UIDs makes me wonder if ME ran a DNA comparison for the toddler to the Asian male, too.

A very common theme here is that three of the four GB4 were either of mixed race or had a mixed race child or relative (MBB, MB, MW.) ALC was the only one where there has been no evidence to show any mixed race relatives.

It just feels like the toddler represents some sort of clue or message. AND STILL:
SCPD will not release pictures of anything but the jewelry...not the blanket, not the clothing or whether there were little shoes found. The clothing could tell the time of year...ie: gloves, shoes, jacket = colder. sundress, shorts, tee shirt or sandals = warmer. Even if she were in pajamas that might give an idea if it was warm weather or cold.

Then, tags on the blanket and or clothing often give the tell tale sign of when the item was manufactured and where it was sold.

This toddler holds the key because as OPs have said, the killer may be a relative.

 

[Justiceforever]

It just feels like the toddler represents some sort of clue or message. AND STILL:
SCPD will not release pictures of anything but the jewelry...not the blanket, not the clothing or whether there were little shoes found. The clothing could tell the time of year...ie: gloves, shoes, jacket = colder. sundress, shorts, tee shirt or sandals = warmer. Even if she were in pajamas that might give an idea if it was warm weather or cold.

Then, tags on the blanket and or clothing often give the tell tale sign of when the item was manufactured and where it was sold.

This toddler holds the key because as OPs have said, the killer may be a relative.

I agee that this baby holds the key. Rest her little soul. I also can't understand WHY they wont release the details you've mentioned!

 

[fred&edna]

Fred&edna The babys mother was found dead several miles to the west by Jones Beach. She one of the unidentified. The baby could have been smothered or placed there. In my opinion its a homocide.

Thanks deedee. I deleted my post because I realized I'd temporarily lost my ability to think... but, it was okay 'cause I found it quickly...right under my shoe

** Opting for some humor today (some of the nutty posts on the ELam thread have gotten to me)

 

[deedee21]

Perhaps someone no longer has to pay child support .

 

[Justiceforever]

thanks deedee. I deleted my post because i realized i'd temporarily lost my ability to think... But, it was okay 'cause i found it quickly...right under my shoe

** opting for some humor today (some of the nutty posts on the elam thread have gotten to me)

 

[Just K]

I just thought of a few things...some toddlers, these days, are in diapers for a very long time. Now, if that was the case here or even if it wasn't...there could be some very good DNA on either a diaper or the underwear. Ofen times, toddlers don't wipe so well, IYKWIM?

I also wonder if there was any favorite toy or stuffed animal left with her.

 

[Justiceforever]

I just thought of a few things...some toddlers, these days, are in diapers for a very long time. Now, if that was the case here or even if it wasn't...there could be some very good DNA on either a diaper or the underwear. Ofen times, toddlers don't wipe so well, IYKWIM?

I also wonder if there was any favorite toy or stuffed animal left with her.

This baby...IMHO has everything to do with MV...not LISK.

I could be wrong.

I am curious what Peter Brendt thinks @ the baby.

 

[Vivalor]

This baby...IMHO has everything to do with MV...not LISK.

I could be wrong.

I am curious what Peter Brendt thinks @ the baby.

The first thing I thought of was a domestic abuse. Sounds reasonable to me that baby was placed here by her father or something. The only problem is that wasn't her mother a jane doe found a little ways a way? If that is the case then I thought she would be linked to lisk.

 

[fred&edna]

The first thing I thought of was a domestic abuse. Sounds reasonable to me that baby was placed here by her father or something. The only problem is that wasn't her mother a jane doe found a little ways a way? If that is the case then I thought she would be linked to lisk.

She (the toddler's mother) wasn't too far away (and neither were the other victims) so even without obvious signs of injury, I want to think the toddler was a victim of the LISK, too. Just a different cause of death.

 

[CriminalMinds]

I would not be surprised if the killer was this childs father.

often thought that as well, very possible an escort situation, she had the baby, came back 1 1/2 later after finding him..? he didn't need wife to know..?