Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Clio]

Martin Coles‏@BroRadioMartin
Appearance lasted 18 minutes Next hearing 11/01/13 Judge keen case remains in N. Wales#AprilJones #FindAprilvia @hywel_griffith @BBCNews
10:32 AM - 10 Oct 12

Ian Lang‏@IanLangITVWales
Mark Bridger: Judge says the trial should be at Caernarfon or Mold. April Jones family to be asked for their views.
10:45 AM - 10 Oct 12

ETA probable court location tweet

 

[Alyce]

Thanks Alyce. My head is swimming with what I know, what I think I know and all the contradictory reports/ info that appears to be out there with this case.

How can we fit in what else we 'know' with your timeline?

At what time was April being looked after by her sister? If the parents went to the school at 3.30 - 5pm, did the sister then take her swimming? Or...? I'm confused.

If your schedule allows for the parents to be at the school up to a max of an hour and a half and MB got there at 5pm, then he also may have been there until 6.30. How far is it from the school to where April was playing? And he REALLY must have wanted to abduct her to have raced straight over there and take her. That's just plain odd. Not impossible but peculiar.

When I say that something doesn't feel/ smell right about this, I am not saying that I don't feel that MB is guilty. My feelings, to a great extent are not about him, but about all the discrepancies/ mis-information and obvious oddities that we are aware of. Obviously, (or at least I hope) there is a great deal that we are unaware of because for me, what we do know doesn't inspire confidence in me at all that this is clear cut.

I guess we will at least know more in a little while when MB makes his plea.

Thanks Adorabella

From what Somerset Sleuth has posted ,the parents meeting should have been no more than 30 minutes.

So if I relook at the timeline I outlined and we allow that they were finished at the school by 4pm or not long after, and - not knowing how far it is from the school to the pool, but am guessing not far - then they could have been at the pool by 4.15pm to say 5.15pm.

Or indeed, if AJ did not go with her parents to the school meeting, then she could have been at the pool with her sister ? while the parents were at the school.

Whichever option it was, we could still say that by about 5.30pm they were all back home.

Now this is a point that has puzzled me. We were told that AJ was out playing while her mother prepared dinner/supper and I read that as preparing AJs supper.

But, wouldnt it be more likely that when they got home at around 5.30pm, that AJ had supper at that time, she is only 5, would seem more logical to me.

So AJ has supper and then she goes out to play, so by this time it is 6pm or a bit later ? and during this time, CJ is preparing supper for herself, PJ and perhaps the older children.

Then the timeline unfolds as previously, at some point between about 6.30pm and 7.30pm, AJ is abducted

 

[Adorabella]

Thanks Adorabella

From what Somerset Sleuth has posted ,the parents meeting should have been no more than 30 minutes.

So if I relook at the timeline I outlined and we allow that they were finished at the school by 4pm or not long after, and - not knowing how far it is from the school to the pool, but am guessing not far - then they could have been at the pool by 4.15pm to say 5.15pm.

Or indeed, if AJ did not go with her parents to the school meeting, then she could have been at the pool with her sister ? while the parents were at the school.

Whichever option it was, we could still say that by about 5.30pm they were all back home.

Now this is a point that has puzzled me. We were told that AJ was out playing while her mother prepared dinner/supper and I read that as preparing AJs supper.

But, wouldnt it be more likely that when they got home at around 5.30pm, that AJ had supper at that time, she is only 5, would seem more logical to me.

So AJ has supper and then she goes out to play, so by this time it is 6pm or a bit later ? and during this time, CJ is preparing supper for herself, PJ and perhaps the older children.

Then the timeline unfolds as previously, at some point between about 6.30pm and 7.30pm, AJ is abducted

Alyce - you are a star! Thank you - so we are getting there with a timeline.

So, what time do with think MB was done, considering he has two children (I think) at that school, so presumably saw two class teachers? Still doesn't give much time to get to the playing children and to build up the mindset to abduct and kill...or does it?

Also, we know the following morning MB's car was and then wasn't seen on a driveway. Brain is lagging and I can't remember exact times. Perhaps was there at 8am, then gone, then back at 9.30am? And was then seen at the garage later.

He was seen at 1.45 down by the river and arrested at 2 something? How do we make all these timings into a list that can be built upon? Sorry, pathetic computer skills.

 

[Clio]

<rsbm>

He was seen at 1.45 down by the river and arrested at 2 something? How do we make all these timings into a list that can be built upon? Sorry, pathetic computer skills.

MB was arrested at 3:30pm Tues 2nd Oct.

 

[Adorabella]

Okay, so I have made this from a timeline in the Evening Standard and WalesOnline. Please add all the other definites that you know - whatever they may be! Thank you so much!

Monday 1st Oct:
15.30 - AJ's parents leave parent's evening
16.00 - Swimming?
17.15 - AJ and family home/ supper
18.00 - AJ out playing
18.50 - Call to MH saying AJ taken
19.00 - (E. Standard) - AJ goes missing
19.29 - Police called regarding AJ's disappearance
22.30 - (E. Standard) - Dyfed Police issue statement about concern for AJ - say she was last seen c. 19.30 playing on her bike.
Overnight - roadblocks set up

Tuesday 2nd Oct:
06.50 - People out searching woods, town, byroads, hamlets etc
08.30 - Police reveal AJ seen getting into grey or light coloured van or van sized vehicle
10.30 - Suspend refuse collections
12.00 - Police say April got into the vehicle willingly. Talking with the children who were with her when she was taken. Possible LH Drive vehicle.
13.45 - MB possibly caught on camera walking along river
15.30 - MB arrested walking along A487
16.30 - Police announce 46 yr old arrested
19.45 - It emerges that arrested man is known to AJ's family
20.00 - MB named

Wednesday 3rd Oct:
10.30 - Police issue photo of MB and lh-drive dark blue Discovery vehicle
12.30 - CJ makes plea (without husband) for info/ AJ's return
18.30 - It is revealed that MB's children regularly played with AJ
23.30 - Police given 12 hrs more to question MB

Thursday 4th Oct:
16.30 - Pink ribbons introduced
17.30 - Police announce received 2,500 'phone calls with info, (or 400 according to Wales Online)

Friday 5th Oct:
10.30 - announced MB arrested on suspicion of murder
12.00 - announced MB went to parent's evening

Saturday 6th Oct:
3.40pm - MB charged with murder, abduction, perverting course of justice

 

[Amber34]

Parent/teacher meetings are usually very short, between 5 and 10 minutes at the most. Remember, they had only just gone back to start a new school year, so it wasn't a progress report, more a 'meet the teacher' session to see who their child's form tutor was that year and maybe to check they were settling in OK.

Need to bear in mind though, the Jones's have two children at that school, so would likely be seeing their son's teacher in the same session. Allowing half an hour would be more than enough time, although there is always the standing round chatting to be taken into consideration.

Swimming lessons for a child that age wouldn't be more than 30-45 mins. I am guessing the quote that she was at the leisure centre just two hours before she went missing would indicate the end of her lesson or her departure, rather than her arrival there.

 

[Clutchbag]

the council had confirmed to sky news that the parents had left by 3.30 and also that MB was at the school between 5.30 and 6.00

see blog entry at 16 44

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/05/april-jones-search-day-five-live

Eta for timeline

Neighbours Gloria and Paul Edwards told police who were smashing down the door next door where MB lived until a month ago then, that they saw MB walking on a cycle bridge towards the town at 2.15 on Oct 2nd. police cordoned off the area and made the arrest by 3.30

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/in-...n-former-home-of-mark-bridger-55578-31970337/

 

[Adorabella]

Parent/teacher meetings are usually very short, between 5 and 10 minutes at the most. Remember, they had only just gone back to start a new school year, so it wasn't a progress report, more a 'meet the teacher' session to see who their child's form tutor was that year and maybe to check they were settling in OK.

Need to bear in mind though, the Jones's have two children at that school, so would likely be seeing their son's teacher in the same session. Allowing half an hour would be more than enough time, although there is always the standing round chatting to be taken into consideration.

Swimming lessons for a child that age wouldn't be more than 30-45 mins. I am guessing the quote that she was at the leisure centre just two hours before she went missing would indicate the end of her lesson or her departure, rather than her arrival there.

Thanks Amber. If you feel the timeline needs to be adjusted, please help yourself. I have no idea apart from remembering my own parent's evenings how long they take but if there are 20 children for example, does each parent get their 10 mins? In which case, perhaps AJ's parents were there for a while, with 2 children?

 

[Clio]

<snip> not knowing how far it is from the school to the pool, but am guessing not far<snip>

Google maps gives 5 minute drive from school to Leisure Centre

 

[Amber34]

Thanks Amber. If you feel the timeline needs to be adjusted, please help yourself. I have no idea apart from remembering my own parent's evenings how long they take but if there are 20 children for example, does each parent get their 10 mins? In which case, perhaps AJ's parents were there for a while, with 2 children?

I was typing that at the same time as you, so wasn't criticising, just adding a bit of info. They would easily have been in and out in under 30 mins, (our primary school would arrange for the interviews to be back to back, or just a small gap) just can't allow for the time standing chatting with pals

Just one other thing - the police were tweeting about the vehicle on the day April went missing

Dyfed Powys Police &#8207;@DyfedPowys
April was seen getting into a light coloured van that drove off. If anyone has any information please call 101. We will update when we can.
2,840
10:39 PM - 1 Oct 12 ·

Edit 2: The information about the vehicle was also on MSM on the day she went missing too. I started the thread and quoted BBC about her getting into the vehicle with the description. The original article shows an update now

Edit: The first Facebook notification about the vehicle that I read was sent at 21:14. I realise this is not helpful to the timeline, but it does give some indication about how quickly the information about the abduction, the details of the vehicle and April's photo (shown in the first post) was out on social media

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

So if I relook at the timeline I outlined and we allow that they were finished at the school by 4pm or not long after, and - not knowing how far it is from the school to the pool, but am guessing not far - then they could have been at the pool by 4.15pm to say 5.15pm.

April Jones' school is very close to her house, on the eastern edge of the town on the Bryn-y-gôg estate. The swimming pool is at the west end of town at the leisure centre where the search effort was co-ordinated from. Distance, about 3/4 mile.

 

[Adorabella]

I was typing that at the same time as you, so wasn't criticising, just adding a bit of info. They would easily have been in and out in under 30 mins, (our primary school would arrange for the interviews to be back to back, or just a small gap) just can't allow for the time standing chatting with pals

Haha - no criticism taken. It's hard to inflect correctly when typing!

 

[Adorabella]

Thank you all for contributing and clarifying etc.

So, one immediate question that I am pondering is where exactly were the roadblocks and surely, with those in place, it narrows down where MB (if he is the guilty party) could actually have taken AJ in his vehicle. Or did he have to carry her physically? That would also narrow down possibilities.

When were those blocks lifted? Was he already on the other side of the blocks by the time they were in place and was he seen returning? If he was and the police had his name and a description of his vehicle, surely they would have apprehended him at that point.

Also, with people out searching in all areas from the early hours, there will hopefully be a very good timeline of MB's movements if he was confined to a small area because of roadblocks and searchers, presumably? Again, baffled!

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Thank you all for contributing and clarifying etc.

So, one immediate question that I am pondering is where exactly were the roadblocks and surely, with those in place, it narrows down where MB (if he is the guilty party) could actually have taken AJ in his vehicle. Or did he have to carry her physically? That would also narrow down possibilities.

When were those blocks lifted? Was he already on the other side of the blocks by the time they were in place and was he seen returning? If he was and the police had his name and a description of his vehicle, surely they would have apprehended him at that point. Again, baffled!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain the road blocks weren't implemented until 22:00 or so. There was certainly a large gap in time between the moment police were made aware of her going missing and road blocks being implemented. This has puzzled me all along - LE don't appear to have been quick off the mark. I could well be the case that Machynlleth police station was unmanned at the time (as many of them are these days) and LE had to come in from Newtown and/or Aberystwyth.

When the news broke on the estate that April was missing, the neighbours very quickly organised a search party. I became aware of the news sometime before 22:00, and tried to alert the media. Obviously I didn't know that we now had a Child Rescue Alert system. BBC Wales Today broke the news at 22:30 that evening.

 

[Adorabella]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain the road blocks weren't implemented until 22:00 or so. There was certainly a large gap in time between the moment police were made aware of her going missing and road blocks being implemented. This has puzzled me all along - LE don't appear to have been quick off the mark. I could well be the case that Machynlleth police station was unmanned at the time (as many of them are these days) and LE had to come in from Newtown and/or Aberystwyth.

When the news broke on the estate that April was missing, the neighbours very quickly organised a search party. I became aware of the news sometime before 22:00, and tried to alert the media. Obviously I didn't know that we now had a Child Rescue Alert system. BBC Wales Today broke the news at 22:30 that evening.

A-ha! So, if it was MB, he had from 19.30 until 22.00-ish to do whatever (!) and then dispose of AJ and not be caught up in a roadblock, or do so the following day. As far as I have understood, those roadblocks were up for about 12 hours, so were removed at approx 10.30 the following morning. How does that fit in with his car/ garage/ sightings etc?

 

[TobyWong*]

Martin Coles&#8207;@BroRadioMartin
Appearance lasted 18 minutes Next hearing 11/01/13 Judge keen case remains in N. Wales#AprilJones #FindAprilvia @hywel_griffith @BBCNews
10:32 AM - 10 Oct 12

Ian Lang&#8207;@IanLangITVWales
Mark Bridger: Judge says the trial should be at Caernarfon or Mold. April Jones family to be asked for their views.
10:45 AM - 10 Oct 12

ETA probable court location tweet

Thanks fr the updates.

So.. he did not plead guilty so it moves toward trial?? Tia.

 

[Inge Jones]

A-ha! So, if it was MB, he had from 19.30 until 22.00-ish to do whatever (!) and then dispose of AJ and not be caught up in a roadblock, or do so the following day. As far as I have understood, those roadblocks were up for about 12 hours, so were removed at approx 10.30 the following morning. How does that fit in with his car/ garage/ sightings etc?

But if CJ *immediately* told police she thought is must be him, as has been rumoured, and she reported to police early on in the evening, then one would think the police would at least pay him a visit to *ask* him if he'd seen April, even if they didn't suspect him of wrongdoing at that point. And they'd keep some sort of discreet watch on his movements?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Thanks fr the updates.

So.. he did not plead guilty so it moves toward trial?? Tia.

If UK procedure is the same as Australia, he won't enter a plea until the January date.

 

[Clio]

Thanks fr the updates.

So.. he did not plead guilty so it moves toward trial?? Tia.

He didn't plead anything at this stage. He will be talking to his lawyers and the defence and prosecution will be preparing their cases over the next few months. He is expected to enter a plea on 11th January at the plea and case management hearing. The actual trial will be sometime after that if he pleads not guilty on the 11th January.

If he pleads guilty, there will be no trial. The evidence will still be presented to a Judge at some point so that the Judge can determine an appropriate sentence.

All the above AFAIK

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

A-ha! So, if it was MB, he had from 19.30 until 22.00-ish to do whatever (!) and then dispose of AJ and not be caught up in a roadblock, or do so the following day. As far as I have understood, those roadblocks were up for about 12 hours, so were removed at approx 10.30 the following morning. How does that fit in with his car/ garage/ sightings etc?

Remember that the Bryn-y-gôg is right on the far eastern part of town. About 100yds east of its junction with the main road is the edge of town, where open country starts. The entrance to the golf course is also right at the edge of town. It's literally a one-minute drive from April Jones' house to leaving the town behind. On the other hand, turning right from the estate, then left on the B-road to Llanidloes, you again go out into open countryside, but after a matter of a few minutes more. Basically, if anybody was going to smuggle a young girl out of town, the path with the least chance of being spotted is heading east, or south.

To get to MB's house at Ceinws would involve him having to drive west through the town centre, potentially having to stop to give way to pedestrians on three Zebra crossings, at two Pelican crossings (ie traffic-light controlled pedestrian crossing), and having to give way to traffic at the clock tower.

There is a long way round to get to Ceinws by going east from Machynlleth, then turning left immediately before you arrive at Cemmaes Road, then a back road through Llanwrin that rejoins the A487 close to Dyfi Bridge, and an area of intense search activity last week.