Still Missing UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #4

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I think Sarah didn't see the prospect of taking care of 9 kids, and a stalking ex potentially doing all the things he's threatened, as an option.
I don't think she saw removing ScW from the house against his will, as even possible.
 
i agree with you - but at the point of discovery, which lets say was when BW made the allegations about ScW to her mum, SW had a choice to protect all the children. Right at that moment. So why would she have had the fear then, at that point - so much so that she chose to take the steps she did? According to the info we have had, there was nothing before that point that showed that SW had been unwilling or unable to protect the children. She had presented herself to the world as a caring mother. She could have acted immediately out of caution, even if she hadn’t believed her daughter.

She could have sent ScW to his parents house, not BW.
From the very first minute we've seen how she is not a sranger to the practices of manipulation and deception.

She was told by Bee that sexual abuse had been going on for seven years and her response was that Bee was sleepwalking. For seven years!
She told her it couldn't be true because she wouldn't be able to handle being in the same house as Scott. How is that in any way relevant to the truth of it? What that shows is that she had no intention of getting him out of the house if it were true.
She manipulated the grandparents.
She started plotting, before Bee was missing, taking over Bee's social media.
She pretended she was Bee in messages.
She lied to her boyfriend, deceiving him that texts were from Bee that day, and didn't tell him until after she'd been arrested and was forced to admit it to police, no doubt when they confronted her with the evidence of Bee's phone pings.
She lied to her best friend the next day, pretending to receive a text from Bee and saying that Bee had her phone and had been in contact with Sarah on it the night she was at the grandparents.

I could go on, every single thing she did over that week and the next was a lie, including lying to police. She lied after her arrest until she had to change her story to explain the evidence police had.

Not finding any truth in her statements or actions, I have no reason to believe her when she said to Bee that she thought her children would be taken away. It looks like more manipulation to me, especially when in the same breath she said she couldn't continue to live in the same house as him, as if that would be a real option and he wouldn't be removed!

I think her real dilemma was it upset Sarah's apple cart. She had Scott there to be full-time daddy to the children, a boyfriend who perhaps wasn't expecting to be thrust into parenthood through an affair, and perhaps didn't care too much for living with Sarah's brood of ten, and if Scott went Sarah would actually have to be her children's full-time carer. Sarah very well knew she could manipulate social services into whatever outcome she wanted as regards not knowing about the abuse. I think her fear was a big lifestyle change, perhaps losing her boyfriend's interest in her AND her child-carer Scott.

I also think that for Sarah to have taken this attitude to Bee, calling her a liar and letting her go crying, knowing (imo) without doubt the allegations were true, and making her sit in Scott's car for the journey to his parents, she couldn't have had love for her to start with. Getting confirmation the murder had been committed (imo) from Scott, and sitting down to the business of the messages while not having any emotional collapse, hardens that belief. I think it is that moment which crystallises everything, and her true personality was laid bare for us - perhaps she is also practiced in the art of mimicking real love, and I won't get into diagnoses because that's not my bag. We can't assume this was a change in her from being a loving mother to a mother that would plot to murder her own daughter.

MOO
 
From the very first minute we've seen how she is not a sranger to the practices of manipulation and deception.

She was told by Bee that sexual abuse had been going on for seven years and her response was that Bee was sleepwalking. For seven years!
She told her it couldn't be true because she wouldn't be able to handle being in the same house as Scott. How is that in any way relevant to the truth of it? What that shows is that she had no intention of getting him out of the house if it were true.
She manipulated the grandparents.
She started plotting, before Bee was missing, taking over Bee's social media.
She pretended she was Bee in messages.
She lied to her boyfriend, deceiving him that texts were from Bee that day, and didn't tell him until after she'd been arrested and was forced to admit it to police, no doubt when they confronted her with the evidence of Bee's phone pings.
She lied to her best friend the next day, pretending to receive a text from Bee and saying that Bee had her phone and had been in contact with Sarah on it the night she was at the grandparents.

I could go on, every single thing she did over that week and the next was a lie, including lying to police. She lied after her arrest until she had to change her story to explain the evidence police had.

Not finding any truth in her statements or actions, I have no reason to believe her when she said to Bee that she thought her children would be taken away. It looks like more manipulation to me, especially when in the same breath she said she couldn't continue to live in the same house as him, as if that would be a real option and he wouldn't be removed!

I think her real dilemma was it upset Sarah's apple cart. She had Scott there to be full-time daddy to the children, a boyfriend who perhaps wasn't expecting to be thrust into parenthood through an affair, and perhaps didn't care too much for living with Sarah's brood of ten, and if Scott went Sarah would actually have to be her children's full-time carer. Sarah very well knew she could manipulate social services into whatever outcome she wanted as regards not knowing about the abuse. I think her fear was a big lifestyle change, perhaps losing her boyfriend's interest in her AND her child-carer Scott.

I also think that for Sarah to have taken this attitude to Bee, calling her a liar and letting her go crying, knowing (imo) without doubt the allegations were true, and making her sit in Scott's car for the journey to his parents, she couldn't have had love for her to start with. Getting confirmation the murder had been committed (imo) from Scott, and sitting down to the business of the messages while not having any emotional collapse, hardens that belief. I think it is that moment which crystallises everything, and her true personality was laid bare for us - perhaps she is also practiced in the art of mimicking real love, and I won't get into diagnoses because that's not my bag. We can't assume this was a change in her from being a loving mother to a mother that would plot to murder her own daughter.

MOO

I was nodding along as I read this. At no point has SaW behaved like a desperate, anguished mother, trying to find or get justice for her beloved daughter. Lies, manipulation, apparent emotional detachment and self-preservation, where truth and love should be.

That 'reward'? The constant victim blaming of BW, begging her to 'come home.' Ugh.
 
I agree with all of this, apart from her belief that social services taking the kids being her being manipulative.

Sarah does not know that she can manipulate social into whatever outcome she wants.
Sarah lost her first child to social care when she fought alone.
Scott is the charismatic people person who has played daddy and charmed all social workers to turn back around and walk out of the house since she met him in her early 20s.
He's the one protecting her brood from social care in her mind.
All of the other manipulation is real yes.
But her fear of social and not being able to win against them is alone, is genuine.

From the very first minute we've seen how she is not a sranger to the practices of manipulation and deception.

She was told by Bee that sexual abuse had been going on for seven years and her response was that Bee was sleepwalking. For seven years!
She told her it couldn't be true because she wouldn't be able to handle being in the same house as Scott. How is that in any way relevant to the truth of it? What that shows is that she had no intention of getting him out of the house if it were true.
She manipulated the grandparents.
She started plotting, before Bee was missing, taking over Bee's social media.
She pretended she was Bee in messages.
She lied to her boyfriend, deceiving him that texts were from Bee that day, and didn't tell him until after she'd been arrested and was forced to admit it to police, no doubt when they confronted her with the evidence of Bee's phone pings.
She lied to her best friend the next day, pretending to receive a text from Bee and saying that Bee had her phone and had been in contact with Sarah on it the night she was at the grandparents.

I could go on, every single thing she did over that week and the next was a lie, including lying to police. She lied after her arrest until she had to change her story to explain the evidence police had.

Not finding any truth in her statements or actions, I have no reason to believe her when she said to Bee that she thought her children would be taken away. It looks like more manipulation to me, especially when in the same breath she said she couldn't continue to live in the same house as him, as if that would be a real option and he wouldn't be removed!

I think her real dilemma was it upset Sarah's apple cart. She had Scott there to be full-time daddy to the children, a boyfriend who perhaps wasn't expecting to be thrust into parenthood through an affair, and perhaps didn't care too much for living with Sarah's brood of ten, and if Scott went Sarah would actually have to be her children's full-time carer. Sarah very well knew she could manipulate social services into whatever outcome she wanted as regards not knowing about the abuse. I think her fear was a big lifestyle change, perhaps losing her boyfriend's interest in her AND her child-carer Scott.

I also think that for Sarah to have taken this attitude to Bee, calling her a liar and letting her go crying, knowing (imo) without doubt the allegations were true, and making her sit in Scott's car for the journey to his parents, she couldn't have had love for her to start with. Getting confirmation the murder had been committed (imo) from Scott, and sitting down to the business of the messages while not having any emotional collapse, hardens that belief. I think it is that moment which crystallises everything, and her true personality was laid bare for us - perhaps she is also practiced in the art of mimicking real love, and I won't get into diagnoses because that's not my bag. We can't assume this was a change in her from being a loving mother to a mother that would plot to murder her own daughter.

MOO
 
I agree with all of this, apart from her belief that social services taking the kids being her being manipulative.

Sarah does not know that she can manipulate social into whatever outcome she wants.
Sarah lost her first child to social care when she fought alone.
Scott is the charismatic people person who has played daddy and charmed all social workers to turn back around and walk out of the house since she met him in her early 20s.
He's the one protecting her brood from social care in her mind.
All of the other manipulation is real yes.
But her fear of social and not being able to win against them is alone, is genuine.

I was just thinking about this.

if she had a child removed this would have been due to some perceived or proven inability to parent. Neglect, mental health, addiction, risk posed to the child - who knows - but it isn’t automatic just because you are young.

This would have been extremely traumatic, not only given her age. However, she found a way soon after to avoid this happening again. As far as I can see, she didn’t lose any other children to SS.

Like you say maybe it is because she found partners who were able to ‘provide the stability’ necessary for SS to give her a chance.

I guess the trauma never goes away and you are deep down always aware that you were considered not suitable to parent.

all just my own opinion.
 
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I think she comes across as neurotic and naive when alone.
And she seeks men who can put on a show of appearing smart and respectable.


I was just thinking about this.

if she had a child removed (was it at birth do we know?) this would have been due to some perceived or proven inability to parent. Neglect, mental health, addiction, risk posed to the child - who knows - but it isn’t automatic just because you are young.

This would have been extremely traumatic, not only given her age. However, she found a way soon after to avoid this happening again. As far as I can see, she didn’t lose any other children.

Like you say maybe it is because she found partners who were able to ‘provide the stability’ necessary for SS to give her a chance.

I guess the trauma never goes away and you are deep down always aware that you were considered not suitable to parent.

all just my own opinion.
 
I think she comes across as neurotic and naive when alone.
And she seeks men who can put on a show of appearing smart and respectable.

as Tortoise says - I believe this is all a part of her ‘character’; constructed, rather than innate, and a means to manipulate people’s perception of her.

edited to add:

I think ScW also maintains a ‘character’ - he is very anxious to present in a certain way, I would like to hear more of what his true character is like. Because we haven’t heard much evidence from him yet, it is still quite difficult to discover what is true and what is contrived. By making him respond under pressure from cross examination we will hopefully see the true character of the man.

MOO
 
I agree with all of this, apart from her belief that social services taking the kids being her being manipulative.

Sarah does not know that she can manipulate social into whatever outcome she wants.
Sarah lost her first child to social care when she fought alone.
Scott is the charismatic people person who has played daddy and charmed all social workers to turn back around and walk out of the house since she met him in her early 20s.
He's the one protecting her brood from social care in her mind.
All of the other manipulation is real yes.
But her fear of social and not being able to win against them is alone, is genuine.
From what I can tell of her, I maintain my belief that this was not about fear of losing her children. It doesn't stack up that a mother would murder in cold blood her oldest daughter to keep the rest, especially once she came to find out (if she didn't know before) that the man living with her children is a paedophile sex offender (and if it's true violent to her children too) and helped him cover it up, and she's spending her time at her new boyfriend's house without her kids.

This, in my opinion, was about Sarah, not any of her kids, or social services. I don't think she even had children to create a family life, I think she had them to get benefits and housing. I see her tiktok videos and one thing they aren't about is being a mother. She wouldn't even have time for those videos if she was doing half of what being a mother to 10 involves, not even the element of feeding them and keeping them bathed and in clean clothes, but helping with school projects, reading, and focusing on their well being. She lived in the land of her phone.

MOO
 
I am considering a trip to Cambridge. I would like to see Scott on the stand. How can I find out what days he will be up there? And will Scott and Sarah ever be up there on the same day? Thanks!
You could try contacting the court to ask what the expected schedule is, whoever answers the phone might have to speak to the court clerk and let you know, if they're helpful.
 
Great advice, Tortoise. Thank you very much. I just rang them. Scott is currently being cross-examined by the prosecution. I was told that because of COVID restrictions only 2 or 3 seats are available in the public gallery on any day. The judge sets the priority for those seats. Family and witnesses come first. So, it sounds like it's not worth the 5-hour round trip for me, sadly. Though I am still slightly tempted as MIdge28 said she was alone in the public gallery!
 
I just wanted to clarify for anyone without experience, that not everyone who has a child with a disability or even more than one child with a disability - has social services involvement.

You don't get automatically allocated a social worker if you have a child with a disability - some parents who need help with respite, suitable home/adaptions, equipment etc might request or be referred for help but, SS are overstretched as it is so that help is not always available and although it's 'a social worker', it's not the same dept as, for example an 'at risk' / child protection social worker

If at any point, Sarah's children were 'at risk' and under social services investigation, then that may be a reason to be worried but ... worried enough to kill or cover up the killing of your child? Nothing would surprise me with these two!
They had a lift fitted to their social housing (I shared the planning way back in thread 1)- the only way this would have been funded would be via a social services disability assessment and I doubt they a would have been allowed (as it’s not their own house) or been able to afford it without the referral- so in that respect I can almost guarantee social services involvement. That being said, it wouldn’t be continuous involvement and certainly wouldn’t be by the same team that work with safeguarding children in danger.
 
They had a lift fitted to their social housing (I shared the planning way back in thread 1)- the only way this would have been funded would be via a social services disability assessment and I doubt they a would have been allowed (as it’s not their own house) or been able to afford it without the referral- so in that respect I can almost guarantee social services involvement. That being said, it wouldn’t be continuous involvement and certainly wouldn’t be by the same team that work with safeguarding children in danger.


Do you mean 'in their home' ?
 
From what I can tell of her, I maintain my belief that this was not about fear of losing her children. It doesn't stack up that a mother would murder in cold blood her oldest daughter to keep the rest, especially once she came to find out (if she didn't know before) that the man living with her children is a paedophile sex offender (and if it's true violent to her children too) and helped him cover it up, and she's spending her time at her new boyfriend's house without her kids.

This, in my opinion, was about Sarah, not any of her kids, or social services. I don't think she even had children to create a family life, I think she had them to get benefits and housing. I see her tiktok videos and one thing they aren't about is being a mother. She wouldn't even have time for those videos if she was doing half of what being a mother to 10 involves, not even the element of feeding them and keeping them bathed and in clean clothes, but helping with school projects, reading, and focusing on their well being. She lived in the land of her phone.

MOO

There's no charges against her for murder or conspiracy to murder.

I don't personally believe that anyone has kids for measly benefits. I know some people have this belief though.

If she happened to be one of the workshy people, desperate for any loophole to avoid working, that she'd have kids to avoid it, then I don't think she would not have chosen to be employed.

I think a more compelling argument would be that if she was truly taking care of all of the children how they should be cared for, then how would she have time to have a job?
News reports show that she was working as a carer. And Bernadettes messages to her mother show that abuse happened while Sarah was at work.
Scott was the stay at home parent.

I'm not familiar with how mothers of 10 function and whether they should be able to manage tiktok and Facebook accounts.
But in this day and age, why not. It's the new way of socialising.
 
There's no charges against her for murder or conspiracy to murder.

I don't personally believe that anyone has kids for measly benefits. I know some people have this belief though.

If she happened to be one of the workshy people, desperate for any loophole to avoid working, that she'd have kids to avoid it, then I don't think she would not have chosen to be employed.

I think a more compelling argument would be that if she was truly taking care of all of the children how they should be cared for, then how would she have time to have a job?
News reports show that she was working as a carer. And Bernadettes messages to her mother show that abuse happened while Sarah was at work.
Scott was the stay at home parent.

I'm not familiar with how mothers of 10 function and whether they should be able to manage tiktok and Facebook accounts.
But in this day and age, why not. It's the new way of socialising.

There's been a lot of judgement on this thread regarding large families, disability benefits and social services, you raise some excellent points
 
Do you mean 'in their home' ?
Sorry, not meaning to offend, I used the term social housing (as that is how our council refer to it) to differentiate from private rental or owned housing. In our council we have several avenues of getting social housing that is rented at the maximum cap level that universal credit will cover so that no more is deducted from other benefits or your wage.
What is social housing - Shelter England
 
There's no charges against her for murder or conspiracy to murder.

I don't personally believe that anyone has kids for measly benefits. I know some people have this belief though.

If she happened to be one of the workshy people, desperate for any loophole to avoid working, that she'd have kids to avoid it, then I don't think she would not have chosen to be employed.

I think a more compelling argument would be that if she was truly taking care of all of the children how they should be cared for, then how would she have time to have a job?
News reports show that she was working as a carer. And Bernadettes messages to her mother show that abuse happened while Sarah was at work.
Scott was the stay at home parent.

I'm not familiar with how mothers of 10 function and whether they should be able to manage tiktok and Facebook accounts.
But in this day and age, why not. It's the new way of socialising.
I agree. The idea that women get pregnant to get free housing and benefits is a old Tory wet dream. SaW, mother of 9/10 and lots of fathers, clearly fits in with the Daily Mail's ideal of feckless benefits Britain, except that she worked, and so did ScW up to his injury. I really don't think defending lifestyle on social security is a driver in this case.
 
They had a lift fitted to their social housing (I shared the planning way back in thread 1)- the only way this would have been funded would be via a social services disability assessment and I doubt they a would have been allowed (as it’s not their own house) or been able to afford it without the referral- so in that respect I can almost guarantee social services involvement. That being said, it wouldn’t be continuous involvement and certainly wouldn’t be by the same team that work with safeguarding children in danger.
Way back in the Find my sister group AW stated that the wheelchair, stair lift and ramps for the cars were paid for by a go fund me campaign. He also said that both family cars were paid for by an anonymous donation from one lady.
 
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