Still Missing UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #4

[CSIAngus]

I am sorry to say that cadaver dogs would not be available for members of the public to hire. Even if they were the cost would be prohibitive. Many thousands for the day.

It's way too late for cadaver dogs Megan. The decay from a body will be well beyond the scent given off by a cadaver after a year under soil. By now we're talking just bones and clothes depending on the conditions. No use for under water, which if anaerobic might have better preservation. But then you're looking for volunteers with the correct gear for such a search.

You need to get the local land owners, farm businesses and managers/agents on board. Perhaps through the local National Farmers Union.

 

[Ayashley]

Hopefully this is ok to post, if not let me know. This is from Stephen Briggs from Peterborough Telegraph. It seems they are trying their best with reporting but covid restrictions are making it super difficult.

 

[Tortoise]

So PT journo is on holiday next week!

Someone needs to get in touch with that other local rag which promised live updates on day 1 and then promptly disappeared. They might come back if they know the PT is not covering it. I don't have the social media to contact them. Think it was Cambridgeshire Live.

yes it was these guys Live updates as Bernadette Walker murder trial opens in Cambridge

next week could be the defendants taking the stand!

 

[Mercsw]

Did the flooding affect around there quite badly over Christmas? just wondering if that's going to destroy and disturbed soil type of thing

We don’t have flooding as such, mainly because of all the dykes and drains…but that brings problems itself with run off etc.

I mean it’s a long shot at best, but you may notice something a bit off from a drone that you could miss by road. It could be some clothing (do we even know what she was wearing as it wasn’t the black dress they claimed) or some disturbed earth or flattened undergrowth. A year on you are clutching at straws, but it’s a better shot than cadaver dogs, especially when the possible search area is around 10% of England!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

So PT journo is on holiday next week!

Someone needs to get in touch with that other local rag which promised live updates on day 1 and then promptly disappeared. They might come back if they know the PT is not covering it. I don't have the social media to contact them. Think it was Cambridgeshire Live.

yes it was these guys Live updates as Bernadette Walker murder trial opens in Cambridge

next week could be the defendants taking the stand!

Frustrating? They have so many murders of young girls locally that this isnt huge news for them?!

 

[Mercsw]

So PT journo is on holiday next week!

Someone needs to get in touch with that other local rag which promised live updates on day 1 and then promptly disappeared. They might come back if they know the PT is not covering it. I don't have the social media to contact them. Think it was Cambridgeshire Live.

yes it was these guys Live updates as Bernadette Walker murder trial opens in Cambridge

next week could be the defendants taking the stand!

One problem. They are both owned by Johnson media. Their stories are often identical and rehashed across all their local rags. It’s embarrassing that they have one journalist and if he’s on holiday there’s no reporting. That sums up local media.

if you look back through the decades, a lot of top cases are broke by local media’s delving deeper. Just another example of this poor girl being let down

 

[Mercsw]

It's way too late for cadaver dogs Megan. The decay from a body will be well beyond the scent given off by a cadaver after a year under soil. By now we're talking just bones and clothes depending on the conditions. No use for under water, which if anaerobic might have better preservation. But then you're looking for volunteers with the correct gear for such a search.

You need to get the local land owners, farm businesses and managers/agents on board. Perhaps through the local National Farmers Union.

I still think the waters are the best bet rather than burial. Firstly it’s the middle of the night, pitch black and heavy rain. He had 90 mins tops. You have no idea where you are digging.

likewise he’s work shy with a bad back. Hardly someone who is putting in effort.

also a burial site would be the worse idea as it would look “off” even a year on. It’s now treasure hunters look for signs from centuries ago, as it leaves a slight trace

whereas into a ditch, dyke, drain or woods and you have got away with it within the first week. Without getting graphic, this area is full of foxes, carrion birds (there is a reason it’s called crowland), pike in the waters etc.

if you could stall the police for a few days whilst everyone is staying at home (say by not reporting it and then giving a silly story of a runaway) you could get a great head start.

 

[Tortoise]

I still think the waters are the best bet rather than burial. Firstly it’s the middle of the night, pitch black and heavy rain. He had 90 mins tops. You have no idea where you are digging.

likewise he’s work shy with a bad back. Hardly someone who is putting in effort.

also a burial site would be the worse idea as it would look “off” even a year on. It’s now treasure hunters look for signs from centuries ago, as it leaves a slight trace

whereas into a ditch, dyke, drain or woods and you have got away with it within the first week. Without getting graphic, this area is full of foxes, carrion birds (there is a reason it’s called crowland), pike in the waters etc.

if you could stall the police for a few days whilst everyone is staying at home (say by not reporting it and then giving a silly story of a runaway) you could get a great head start.

Here's my theory.

He picked up an empty suitcase from the lock-up in the morning.

He drove after picking up Bee to a quiet place in Gunthorpe. There's a grass verge here for instance which is quite secluded. Google Maps

He's put his arm around Bee as if to pull her over for a hug, and strangled her. Then pushed her down into the footwell and thrown a coat over her, or a blanket or something.

Then he's got out of the car and paced up and down the road having a *advertiser censored* (detail in his story), always keeping the car in his sight. Perhaps it was deliberate that he would get out of the car as if to be seen looking for her. Then he's got to get her in the suitcase so he turns his phone off and drives out to a remote spot in the countryside, a quiet lane with a verge, about 30-40 mins away, which is also when he uses the daylight to scope out a place for the disposal/burial. He then puts her in the suitcase and returns to the area he was supposed to be looking for her, and turns his phone back on to call SaW. Then he comes up with the idea that they were going to go to McDonalds and that's why he rushes off there, to explain the delay of 2 hours after picking her up. They later realise he won't be able to use that as an alibi as he only bought food for himself (Bee didn't want one is in his story). It's Glinton McD's to explain another part of the delay that morning.

Then he's gone back to the lock-up and put the suitcase in, 10 mins there before he goes back home.

That night they visit the lock-up together for 20 minutes, for SaW to see her for a last time.

He returns the following morning at 2:47am for 10 minutes. Searching for a shovel, but SaW wants to be at the burial so he leaves the suitcase in situ. Perhaps getting also the dimensions of the suitcase. He goes off for 2 hrs 17 mins, so if he's got to dig in that time it's probably only an hour of that driving, half hour each way. Also matches with the distance gone the day before. He prepares the hole in the ground and covers it over with branches. Back to the lock-up for 23 mins at 5:37am. Probably wet and muddy, he needs to clean himself up before he goes for another McDs.

They return to the lock-up for 5 minutes after midnight on 20th to pick up the suitcase and take it to the burial spot after Cowbit and Glinton when they have their phones switched off.

 

[CSIAngus]

We don’t have flooding as such, mainly because of all the dykes and drains…but that brings problems itself with run off etc.

I mean it’s a long shot at best, but you may notice something a bit off from a drone that you could miss by road. It could be some clothing (do we even know what she was wearing as it wasn’t the black dress they claimed) or some disturbed earth or flattened undergrowth. A year on you are clutching at straws, but it’s a better shot than cadaver dogs, especially when the possible search area is around 10% of England!

All black with a denim jacket from what I recall.

 

[Becky53]

So PT journo is on holiday next week!

Someone needs to get in touch with that other local rag which promised live updates on day 1 and then promptly disappeared. They might come back if they know the PT is not covering it. I don't have the social media to contact them. Think it was Cambridgeshire Live.

yes it was these guys Live updates as Bernadette Walker murder trial opens in Cambridge

next week could be the defendants taking the stand!

Reporter for Cambridgeshire Live Freddie Lynne has left and gone elsewhere according to his twitter feed @freddie_lynne. Other reporter Harry Gold is a Trainee Multimedia Reporter

 

[Becky53]

Hopefully this is ok to post, if not let me know. This is from Stephen Briggs from Peterborough Telegraph. It seems they are trying their best with reporting but covid restrictions are making it super difficult.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/screenshot-98-png.303327/

Reporting restrictions about certain aspects of the case - can anyone think what that could be?

Also does anyone know when they started to excavate the WWII tank in Crowland?

 

[MeganS]

Welcome Megan. Like many on here I have followed this case from the initial missing thread, and I have also taken an interest in the Help Me Find My Sister group. I have examined every social media post relating to BW and the accused more times than I care to mention. Cross-referenced and triangulated every fact that we have. Been up in the middle of the night looking at maps and checking references, slept in, missed meetings, etc. It really has taken over my life more than any other case that I've followed.

We have some really honed minds on this thread and some fascinating discussions. All conducted in the most civilised manner. I really do hope we can bring BW back to her family. If you look back through the thread, you will see lots of discussion about windows of opportunity for disposal and of the potential sites where further searching may be fruitful. And it's a good time to go look; from now until the end of the month will be similar ground conditions to the events. I do wish you well. I confess that I have fallen a little in love with the BW that I have found, a beautiful human, so much like my eldest daughter, and it really breaks my heart what has happened to her and the impact it must be having on her brothers and sisters.

I don't underestimate the impact that a voluntary, self-organised search might have on the public, the police and the accused. It will, at the very, least raise the profile of BW which has been far too low throughout. Good luck.

Thank you for your reply!

I had only discovered this page while searching for a timeline for BW and am amazed at how dedicated people are to helping find not just BW but others too, whether it be going over information and discussing it or working out locations for potential disposal,

Thank you for your help I will have a look through the threads, found the timeline last night and found a couple of spots potentially the phone could of been thrown, going to have a look at some point this week, any suggestions on how not to contaminate any evidence if I find any? Massively a longshot if I find anything but I don’t want to hinder rather than help,

It really so heartbreaking to see, I wish things had been done sooner in an effort to find her, do you think any chance at all of cadaver dogs helping is a no? I have someone in my village who was part of a search and rescue organisation who has contacts with several search teams with cadaver dogs, i mean It does sound again like trying to find a needle in a haystack I agree but if there’s a 2% chance of her being found that way would you say it’s worth a shot?

thank you, hopefully we can get enough people together for atleast a few days of searching, I will see if I can find anyone local with a drone too

 

[MeganS]

I am sorry to say that cadaver dogs would not be available for members of the public to hire. Even if they were the cost would be prohibitive. Many thousands for the day.

I got in touch with someone in my village who trains dogs for a search and rescue organisation, I’m speaking to him tomorrow over the phone but he has mentioned several individuals with the cadaver dogs who would help, although I agree could be thousands a day and that would rely on public funding

 

[Mercsw]

Here's my theory.

He picked up an empty suitcase from the lock-up in the morning.

He drove after picking up Bee to a quiet place in Gunthorpe. There's a grass verge here for instance which is quite secluded. Google Maps

He's put his arm around Bee as if to pull her over for a hug, and strangled her. Then pushed her down into the footwell and thrown a coat over her, or a blanket or something.

Then he's got out of the car and paced up and down the road having a *advertiser censored* (detail in his story), always keeping the car in his sight. Perhaps it was deliberate that he would get out of the car as if to be seen looking for her. Then he's got to get her in the suitcase so he turns his phone off and drives out to a remote spot in the countryside, a quiet lane with a verge, about 30-40 mins away, which is also when he uses the daylight to scope out a place for the disposal/burial. He then puts her in the suitcase and returns to the area he was supposed to be looking for her, and turns his phone back on to call SaW. Then he comes up with the idea that they were going to go to McDonalds and that's why he rushes off there, to explain the delay of 2 hours after picking her up. They later realise he won't be able to use that as an alibi as he only bought food for himself (Bee didn't want one is in his story). It's Glinton McD's to explain another part of the delay that morning.

Then he's gone back to the lock-up and put the suitcase in, 10 mins there before he goes back home.

That night they visit the lock-up together for 20 minutes, for SaW to see her for a last time.

He returns the following morning at 2:47am for 10 minutes. Searching for a shovel, but SaW wants to be at the burial so he leaves the suitcase in situ. Perhaps getting also the dimensions of the suitcase. He goes off for 2 hrs 17 mins, so if he's got to dig in that time it's probably only an hour of that driving, half hour each way. Also matches with the distance gone the day before. He prepares the hole in the ground and covers it over with branches. Back to the lock-up for 23 mins at 5:37am. Probably wet and muddy, he needs to clean himself up before he goes for another McDs.

They return to the lock-up for 5 minutes after midnight on 20th to pick up the suitcase and take it to the burial spot after Cowbit and Glinton when they have their phones switched off.

possibly, I think you may be close on his actions on that morning. He’s acted weirdly and then changed his story to suit the mistakes. Why didn’t you buy two McDonald’s? Why didn’t you chase her? Why did you stop? Why did it take two hours? Why was your phone off?

at every stage he’s told a more ridiculous story to cover the evidence presented. The mother is doing that too. Sign of guilt. The truth makes sense when explained, a lie just sounds dumber and dumber the more you dig

 

[Mercsw]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/screenshot-98-png.303327/

Reporting restrictions about certain aspects of the case - can anyone think what that could be?

Also does anyone know when they started to excavate the WWII tank in Crowland?

the tank was finally located on the first may bank holiday this year if I remember. To give you an idea of how lost stuff can get in the fens, they knew roughly where that was but still took 75 years to find it!

 

[CSIAngus]

Thank you for your reply!

I had only discovered this page while searching for a timeline for BW and am amazed at how dedicated people are to helping find not just BW but others too, whether it be going over information and discussing it or working out locations for potential disposal,

Thank you for your help I will have a look through the threads, found the timeline last night and found a couple of spots potentially the phone could of been thrown, going to have a look at some point this week, any suggestions on how not to contaminate any evidence if I find any? Massively a longshot if I find anything but I don’t want to hinder rather than help,

It really so heartbreaking to see, I wish things had been done sooner in an effort to find her, do you think any chance at all of cadaver dogs helping is a no? I have someone in my village who was part of a search and rescue organisation who has contacts with several search teams with cadaver dogs, i mean It does sound again like trying to find a needle in a haystack I agree but if there’s a 2% chance of her being found that way would you say it’s worth a shot?

thank you, hopefully we can get enough people together for atleast a few days of searching, I will see if I can find anyone local with a drone too

I think it's pretty pointless taking on a cadaver dog unless you have a specific reason to search an area and, after a year of decomposition, I doubt whether they would be of any use at all.

It's probably easier to narrow the search by discounting areas. I doubt whether the disposal site would have been within 100m of a house, for instance, but would be near a road or good farm track. Someone good with Geographical Information Systems (GIS) would be a useful recruit for your campaign. They could map all of the potential factors on multiple layers and indicate areas to focus on, as well as recording searched areas.

We all have our best guess areas. Mine is early hours of 19th July between the Barn Garden Centre and Newborough, along a farm track called Barnoak Road. It's the mid point between two police search areas and pretty much satisfies my criteria if I were wanting to dispose of a body by burial in the dark and rain without car headlights on.

Your main task will be gaining permission to walk across land, some of which will be under crop.

 

[Becky53]

the tank was finally located on the first may bank holiday this year if I remember. To give you an idea of how lost stuff can get in the fens, they knew roughly where that was but still took 75 years to find it!

Thanks

 

[jackal67]

Here's my theory.

He picked up an empty suitcase from the lock-up in the morning.

He drove after picking up Bee to a quiet place in Gunthorpe. There's a grass verge here for instance which is quite secluded. Google Maps

He's put his arm around Bee as if to pull her over for a hug, and strangled her. Then pushed her down into the footwell and thrown a coat over her, or a blanket or something.

Then he's got out of the car and paced up and down the road having a *advertiser censored* (detail in his story), always keeping the car in his sight. Perhaps it was deliberate that he would get out of the car as if to be seen looking for her. Then he's got to get her in the suitcase so he turns his phone off and drives out to a remote spot in the countryside, a quiet lane with a verge, about 30-40 mins away, which is also when he uses the daylight to scope out a place for the disposal/burial. He then puts her in the suitcase and returns to the area he was supposed to be looking for her, and turns his phone back on to call SaW. Then he comes up with the idea that they were going to go to McDonalds and that's why he rushes off there, to explain the delay of 2 hours after picking her up. They later realise he won't be able to use that as an alibi as he only bought food for himself (Bee didn't want one is in his story). It's Glinton McD's to explain another part of the delay that morning.

Then he's gone back to the lock-up and put the suitcase in, 10 mins there before he goes back home.

That night they visit the lock-up together for 20 minutes, for SaW to see her for a last time.

He returns the following morning at 2:47am for 10 minutes. Searching for a shovel, but SaW wants to be at the burial so he leaves the suitcase in situ. Perhaps getting also the dimensions of the suitcase. He goes off for 2 hrs 17 mins, so if he's got to dig in that time it's probably only an hour of that driving, half hour each way. Also matches with the distance gone the day before. He prepares the hole in the ground and covers it over with branches. Back to the lock-up for 23 mins at 5:37am. Probably wet and muddy, he needs to clean himself up before he goes for another McDs.

They return to the lock-up for 5 minutes after midnight on 20th to pick up the suitcase and take it to the burial spot after Cowbit and Glinton when they have their phones switched off.

Thl makeperfect sense to me. Jue itbr.

the tank was finally located on the first may bank holiday this year if I remember. To give you an idea of how lost stuff can get in the fens, they knew roughly where that was but still took 75 years to find it!

And as a long time resident of the area I imagine ScW would be aware of how difficult it would be to find a body there

 

[MeganS]

Would anyone know of the best place to get a map of Peterborough and surrounding to mark off where searched? Or any websites that do interactive maps to mark specifically where searched?

 

[Skigh]

Hope this is okay to say here, just signed up so unsure how the thread work's if I'm honest! I've been organising with the Facebook group about starting to do public searches, just looking into hiring a cadaver dog anyone know how much they cost or had any experience with them or advice?

I am sorry to say that cadaver dogs would not be available for members of the public to hire. Even if they were the cost would be prohibitive. Many thousands for the day.

I think it's pretty pointless taking on a cadaver dog unless you have a specific reason to search an area and, after a year of decomposition, I doubt whether they would be of any use at all.

It's probably easier to narrow the search by discounting areas. I doubt whether the disposal site would have been within 100m of a house, for instance, but would be near a road or good farm track. Someone good with Geographical Information Systems (GIS) would be a useful recruit for your campaign. They could map all of the potential factors on multiple layers and indicate areas to focus on, as well as recording searched areas.

We all have our best guess areas. Mine is early hours of 19th July between the Barn Garden Centre and Newborough, along a farm track called Barnoak Road. It's the mid point between two police search areas and pretty much satisfies my criteria if I were wanting to dispose of a body by burial in the dark and rain without car headlights on.

Your main task will be gaining permission to walk across land, some of which will be under crop.

Cadaver dogs can detect remains which are years old.