Recovered/Located UK - Cardiff - 3 Women & 2 Men Missing, leaving nightclub approx 2am, Newport, 4 March 2023

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Ms Russon's mum Anna Certowicz said police "didn't seem to think it was worth investigating".

Police have said they cannot comment while an investigation is pending.

Newport West MP Ruth Jones said she understood the "consternation at the delay in apparently finding them" but people "need to hold fire and wait".

In a statement, South Wales Police said the group was the subject of inquiries "by Gwent Police following a missing person report made during the evening of Saturday 4 March".

"A subsequent missing person report in respect of one of the individuals was made to South Wales Police on Sunday," it added.

Gwent Police, which was responsible for the search, issued an appeal for information on the missing group on Sunday night, a few hours before they were found. South Wales Police is investigating the crash.

Friends of the five claimed they found the vehicle but police have said it was located by a helicopter.

www.bbc.co.uk

Cardiff car crash: Mum criticises two-day search to find group

Family and friends question why it took two days to find five who went missing after night out.
www.bbc.co.uk
 

18:10 06/03/2023​

Updated statement on fatal road traffic collision on the A48 in the St Mellons area of Cardiff​


South Wales Police is continuing to investigate a fatal road traffic collision on the A48 in the St Mellons area of Cardiff.

Emergency services discovered a Volkswagen Tiguan vehicle at 12.15am on Monday 6th March after the police helicopter, police and fire officers were deployed to the scene.

Formal identification has taken place this afternoon and three people who died in the collision have been confirmed as being Rafel Jeanne, aged 24, from Cardiff, Eve Smith, 21, from Newport, and Darcy Ross, 21, from Newport.

Two further people were taken to the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff where they remain in a critical condition.

Investigations are ongoing to determine the circumstances of the incident, including when the collision took place. The five individuals were the subject of enquiries by Gwent Police following a missing person report made during the evening of Saturday 4th March. A subsequent missing person report in respect of one of the individuals was made to South Wales Police on Sunday 5th March. Referrals have been made by Gwent Police and South Wales Police to the Independent Office for Police Conduct.

The last confirmed sighting of the five was during the early hours of Saturday morning.

Assistant Chief Constable Jason Davies of South Wales Police said: “Our thoughts are with the families of all those affected by this tragic incident. Specialist officers are carrying out an investigation to piece together what has happened. Family liaison officers are supporting the families involved at what must be a hugely difficult time for them.

“To ensure independent oversight, South Wales Police has referred the matter to the Independent Office for Police Conduct, as is usual in these circumstances.”

 
3point5 said:
That's not how I read this section:

Frequent or planned absences​

A risk assessment must be conducted for every missing report and should be based on current risk levels and not be driven by previous assumptions or experiences. When a person goes missing, whether for the first time or repeatedly, it may indicate that there are underlying issues and this should be considered when undertaking the risk assessment. These issues should be explored and may be relevant to the police investigation, future safeguarding and care planning regardless of whether the person is frequently missing, or their disappearance is out of character.


Source: Missing persons risk assessment | College of Policing.


As someone else mentioned, from an outside perspective, there's very little difference between 5 people forgetting a phone charger whilst heading to a mates caravan for the night, and 5 people legitimately missing having crashed their car.

People seem so eager to blame the police here and I just don't understand the desire.
Click to expand...
I think part of the desire to blame is the headlines of how one of the mums felt the police weren't acting with the speed she felt was appropriate and necessary.

The other part is that almost everyone gets in a car and drives somewhere most days. It's about fear. That could be us or our children stuck in that car, critically injured, scared and in unimaginable pain, plus laying next to the dead body of a friend, waiting for two full days for rescue.

The logical part of me that can detach while reading about something like this can think there would naturally be some level of delay while working out where these people might have gone that night and whether they were together, or if they were in a vehicle (I think one girl's vehicle was left at the club they went, no one knew initially that the girls and guys met up and they were all travelling in the Tiguan, or about the drive to Trecco. It's going to take time to figure out that it could have been a car crash and then you have to work out where it might have happened.

There will be laws about tracing phones and how ANPR is used.

At the end of the day, these young people might have turned up home, safe and hungover. That was the most likely outcome by far, even after 12 hours+ of no contact after a night out. It's only hindsight that tells us that isn't what happened here. It's right that questions should be asked and that there should be an inquiry to see what lessons can be learned. People need the reassurance that waiting 48 hours in a crashed car will always be an extremely rare thing and that appropriate actions will be taken by police in every case to do everything possible to avoid tragic outcomes like this.
 
.. as it emerged the five revellers may have driven 85 miles in the hours before the tragedy.

While the exact route the group drove is not known, a direct journey would have taken them approximately 85 miles in total.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Cardiff car crash victims went on 85-mile journey before tragedy

Best friends Eve Smith, 21, Darcy Ross, 21, and Sophie Russon, 20, had driven to the Muffler social club in Newport, South Wales, at around 11pm on Friday.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Amonet said:
At the end of the day, these young people might have turned up home, safe and hungover. That was the most likely outcome by far, even after 12 hours+ of no contact after a night out. It's only hindsight that tells us that isn't what happened here. It's right that questions should be asked and that there should be an inquiry to see what lessons can be learned. People need the reassurance that waiting 48 hours in a crashed car will always be an extremely rare thing and that appropriate actions will be taken by police in every case to do everything possible to avoid tragic outcomes like this.
Click to expand...
I do completely get that. And of course, questions should be asked. I just think those questions should be asked once the time is right. I find this constant need to point blame at the police when we have very little info extremely tiring. We saw exactly the same in the Nicola Bulley case. People criticising the police until they're blue in the face when we really had very little info. Once the info comes out, it looks like a lot of those criticisms aren't accurate.

Like the mum saying police didn't take her seriously. Yet today we've now found out they were looking at the time, but didn't have updates to give he mother.

News travels quickly, and accuracy is very low down on a journalists minds when it comes to a breaking story. For people here to outright condemn the police purely from these news reports I think is naive and unhelpful.

All IMO. Others of course are welcome to feel the complete opposite.
 
3point5 said:
That's not how I read this section:

Frequent or planned absences​

A risk assessment must be conducted for every missing report and should be based on current risk levels and not be driven by previous assumptions or experiences. When a person goes missing, whether for the first time or repeatedly, it may indicate that there are underlying issues and this should be considered when undertaking the risk assessment. These issues should be explored and may be relevant to the police investigation, future safeguarding and care planning regardless of whether the person is frequently missing, or their disappearance is out of character.


Source: Missing persons risk assessment | College of Policing.


As someone else mentioned, from an outside perspective, there's very little difference between 5 people forgetting a phone charger whilst heading to a mates caravan for the night, and 5 people legitimately missing having crashed their car.

People seem so eager to blame the police here and I just don't understand the desire.
Click to expand...
A factor such as, e.g., someone missing work (which one of those girls did on the Saturday), should have been enough to raise questions about a low risk classification. I'm not saying it should have been high risk straight away. Low risk was appropriate - on the information we have anyway - for the Saturday morning & afternoon, but once it got into Saturday night, the whole "it's the same as five people without a charger" argument becomes moot, and given that people had missed work shifts, should have been raised to Medium at least by Saturday evening, IMO.

It's fully legitimate to question the police and to keep them in check in an open society, and I'm glad the press are also asking difficult questions about this. Lives were lost.
 
JennieM said:
Also that's a very long stretch of road leading up to the roundabout, and if it was empty in the early hours it would be quite easy to speed in it.
Click to expand...
It looks looks like a bend at the end which could easily be missed if a driver was 1. Unfamiliar with the road, 2. Possibly under the influence (not saying that's what happened in this case), 3. Distracted by something, 4. Going too fast, and the fact it was dark just compounds things.

Some pics from Google Earth which show the length of the slip road (I didnt even capture all of it as previous pictures have been posted I believe), the angle of the road bending, and the speed bumps are clearly visible in the third pic. They are supposedly quite big. And yes, it is a very long slip road, easy to build up speed on. JMO
 

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AnalyticalMind said:
It looks looks like a bend at the end which could easily be missed if a driver was 1. Unfamiliar with the road, 2. Possibly under the influence (not saying that's what happened in this case), 3. Distracted by something, 4. Going too fast, and the fact it was dark just compounds things.

Some pics from Google Earth which show the angle of the road bending. And yes, it is a very long slip road, easy to build up speed on.
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I am not sure you would miss it if you were unfamiliar with the road, but I agree with everything else you said. Good pics showing the road bending!
 
DianaWW said:
From what I've read, they weren't actually reported missing until Saturday evening.

'In a statement, South Wales Police said the group was the subject of inquiries "by Gwent Police following a missing person report made during the evening of Saturday 4 March".
"A subsequent missing person report in respect of one of the individuals was made to South Wales Police on Sunday," it added.'

www.bbc.co.uk

Cardiff car crash: Mum criticises two-day search to find group

Family and friends question why it took two days to find five who went missing after night out.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
If that's the case it's even more surprising that they were graded low risk. Being hungover somewhere with no phone charger is something you'd expect five people to resolve by night time.
 
JennieM said:
I am not sure you would miss it if you were unfamiliar with the road, but I agree with everything else you said. Good pics showing the road bending!
Click to expand...
Sorry, I should have been clearer, if it was that alone it probably wouldn't cause a driver to come off the road, but in combination with other factors, it could contribute possibly? Maybe it was a combination of several factors. Whatever the cause it's incredibly sad and it's been on my mind since they first were shared as being missing as I can relate to the circumstances they were in (being young, in cars on weekend nights, out drinking, in fact I'm very lucky to have left my early 20s mainly unscathed due to very bad choice I made which in hindsight I'm mortified about. But for some people when you are that age it's hard to image anything bad happening).

Edit - something else which crossed my mind, maybe they swerved to avoid an animal on the road? Fox perhaps? A friend's daughter died after going down an embankment head on into a tree a few years ago after swerving to avoid a deer in the road. The road itself was already a major accident hotspot. Campaigners had been fighting to have something done before my friends daughter lost her life. It was a road she had driven many times, semi rural, it was horrendous and she was in her early 20s too.
 
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#STATEMENT | South Wales Police is continuing to investigate a fatal road traffic collision on the A48 in the St Mellons area of Cardiff.

Emergency services discovered a Volkswagen Tiguan vehicle at 12.15am on Monday 6th March after the police helicopter, police and fire officers were deployed to the scene.

The families of Rafel Jeanne, Darcy Ross and Eve Smith, who died in the collision, continue to be supported by specialist family liaison officers.

Two further people remain in critical condition at the University Hospital of Wales.

Following initial police investigations into the collision, we can confirm that:

- The last confirmed sighting of the five people was at 2am on Saturday 4th March in Pentwyn.
- The collision occurred during the early hours of Saturday 4th March, the exact time to be confirmed by the investigation, including CCTV and ANPR enquiries.
- The first missing person report was made to Gwent Police at 7.34pm on Saturday 4th March.
- Further missing person reports were made to Gwent Police at 7.43pm and 9.32pm on Saturday 4th March.
- A further missing person report was made to South Wales Police at 5.37pm on Sunday 5th March.
- At 11.50pm on Sunday 5th March the police helicopter was requested to search an area of Cardiff which resulted in a vehicle being located in a wooded area off the A48.
- Gwent Police officers, who were in the area conducting enquiries during Sunday evening, discovered a Volkswagen Tiguan vehicle at 12.15am on Monday 6th March.
- At this stage we believe only one vehicle to be involved.

Assistant Chief Constable Jason Davies of South Wales Police said: “Our thoughts continue to be with the families and all those affected by this tragic incident. Specialist officers are carrying out a detailed investigation to piece together what has happened. Family liaison officers are supporting the families involved at what must be a hugely difficult time for them.”

Full statement here: https://www.south-wales.police.uk/n...ent-from-south-wales-police-and-gwent-police/

 
It's stated in this article that Rafels friend who was searching saw tyre tracks on the ground at the round about, is it possible they might not have been coming off the slip road but from the second exit counter clockwise and gone straight ahead? Or has it been confirmed it was the slip road? There's a large sign at the edge of the slip road next to where the car could have gone through. It looks undamaged in press shots so if it was that road the car avoided it.

Tyre tracks -
www.dailymail.co.uk

Cardiff car crash: Man who found wreckage slams police

Matthew Pace, 45, and son Lewis, 26, were searching for the missing group of friends in Cardiff when they spotted tyre tracks across grass at a roundabout.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

This is the other road I had been pondering over...

Edited to say I'm most likely wrong, there's a street light pole directly in the way of the route in my picture below, and going by aerial pictures from the press it looks like the car could have turned towards the trees just before the signage pole on the slip road. There are tyre tracks in those pictures but they could be from police vehicles. The positioning and angle of the recovery vehicles also leads me to believe it was indeed the slip road.
 

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dunkley said:
It angers me that the media seems to constantly leap on any opportunity to criticise and <modsnip> the police.
"Why did it take so long for the police to find them?"
There were, according to this article, 200 people out searching. Some of whom were within yards of the vehicle.
Why didn't *they* find it?
Sometimes there is just NO blame - fate, and circumstances, conspire to confound all logic and expected outcomes. It happens.
Those 200 people searching had far MORE chance of finding them, and they didn't. It's no more their fault than it is the police.
Oh, and those 200 people searching probably numbered 175 MORE than the entire number of officers in Cardiff that night.

Just an awful tragedy.
Click to expand...

The police have abilities that ordinary civilians don't have. If they bothered to track their phones, for example, it would have led to a few hundred square yards where they could have been found, leading to a more intensive search in the target area.

The volunteers didn't find them because they have no such abilities. It's not fair to criticise them for not finding the group when unlike the police, they don't have the expertise, equipment or facilities to do so.

I think criticism of the police is warranted in this case because the mother of a survivor has already said they weren't interested. I don't think it's victim-friendly to be disputing her account.
 
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Alyce said:
From Niky's link......



Mike Holmes, a driver at the scene this morning, said: 'It's incredible that thousands of cars must have gone past without knowing.

'The car has come off the roundabout and gone into the trees, there's a bit of a dip so you just can't see it.

Mr Holmes said there was no debris in the road and no sign of any other vehicle being involved.
Click to expand...
Roundabouts should be cleared. Only low shrubbery.
 
"off any of them, I thought they'd have been looking all day Saturday."

Quote taken from the article with the interview of the friend.

Answer to this .... there is NO reason the police would have been looking for them 'all day Saturday' because they hadn't been reported as missing to the police at that point. It wasn't until later on Saturday evening that three MFH reports were made to Gwent Police. Gwent covers Newport, so I am guessing this was the three girls.
The other report was made to South Wales Police on Sunday evening. SW covers Cardiff, so I am guessing this to be one of the two men. My gut says RJ.
Tracking phones and ANPR is NOT the first line of any MFH enquiry. Local enquiries, visiting known associates, and making phone calls is usually the first line of attack. Plus circulating the registration number of the car. But - would that actually have been known until the owner of the car was reported MFH? Information gained from the person reporting. There has been no suggestion that any of the girls owned it.
Someone must have been told they were going on to Porthcawl and Cardiff. Or how would that information be known. Again, I am guessing this may well have come from the sixth person that has been mentioned, but not named. I am very sure the police know exactly who it is, and will be getting as much information from that person as possible.
Ultimately, we are not investigating this tragedy, the police and IOPC ARE.
We should now allow them to get on with it.
As in many other cases - everything will be made public in due course. At the Inquests, or any possible future legal proceedings.

IMO
 
I feel so sorry for this family but think they have the right idea "
In a statement, Eve’s family said: "At this extraordinarily difficult time, we request that our privacy is respected and we are allowed to grieve in peace.”

They added: “We want to allow Gwent Police and South Wales Police the time and space to investigate the matter in a thorough and professional way and to enable the Independent Office for Police Conduct thereafter to come to their own conclusions."

www.thesun.co.uk

Family reveal heartache after woman, 21, found dead in crashed car with pals

THE family of crash victim Eve Smith have told of their heartache after their daughter died with two others. Eve, 21, was found dead with two pals in what is the second tragedy to hit her family af…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
 
dunkley said:
"off any of them, I thought they'd have been looking all day Saturday."

Quote taken from the article with the interview of the friend.

Answer to this .... there is NO reason the police would have been looking for them 'all day Saturday' because they hadn't been reported as missing to the police at that point. It wasn't until later on Saturday evening that three MFH reports were made to Gwent Police. Gwent covers Newport, so I am guessing this was the three girls.
The other report was made to South Wales Police on Sunday evening. SW covers Cardiff, so I am guessing this to be one of the two men. My gut says RJ.
Tracking phones and ANPR is NOT the first line of any MFH enquiry. Local enquiries, visiting known associates, and making phone calls is usually the first line of attack. Plus circulating the registration number of the car. But - would that actually have been known until the owner of the car was reported MFH? Information gained from the person reporting. There has been no suggestion that any of the girls owned it.
Someone must have been told they were going on to Porthcawl and Cardiff. Or how would that information be known. Again, I am guessing this may well have come from the sixth person that has been mentioned, but not named. I am very sure the police know exactly who it is, and will be getting as much information from that person as possible.
Ultimately, we are not investigating this tragedy, the police and IOPC ARE.
We should now allow them to get on with it.
As in many other cases - everything will be made public in due course. At the Inquests, or any possible future legal proceedings.

IMO
Click to expand...


Agree, I actually said in an earlier post I was interested in the timeline and sequence of missing persons being reported as I feel this would provide a bit more insight into the police’s line of enquiry.

We will never be privy to all the information that police have, and that will never change and IMO correct.
 
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